Are the Emerald Witch and the White Witch the same person.
- Thread starter Josh
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crazycigirl
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I always thought of them as different people. In my mind Aslan symbolized good, and Jadis and after she was defeated the Emerald Witch symbolized evil. It seemed to me that Jadis was defeated, (evil wasn't until Narnia was destroyed) then the Emerald Witch became the "evil". I don't think that they would be the same people, otherwise Aslan never really defeated Jadis. They were both evil and trying to take over Narnia, but different people from different places. Although they both seem to like giants. Jadis was half giant, and the Emerald Witch was friends with them. But than all the giants were evil anyway.
Elentari
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Not ALL giants...Just the ones from the Western Wild. 
There was a giant in LWW and one in PC that were on the side of the Narnians.
The two witches are different. Two things connect them (as crazycigirl said):
1. Trying to take over Narnia
2. Evil witches
Each book had its own "bad" character(s):
MN & LWW: Jadis, the White Witch
H&HB: Calormens/Rabadash
PC: Telmarines/Miraz
VOTDT: minor little issues, not one big evil
SC: Emerald Witch
TLB:Calormens/Tash
I agree with crazycigirl that to make the Emerald Witch "Jadis reborn" would be saying Aslan never truly defeated her, which would make Jadis just as or more powerful, which we all know is not true.
There was a giant in LWW and one in PC that were on the side of the Narnians.The two witches are different. Two things connect them (as crazycigirl said):
1. Trying to take over Narnia
2. Evil witches
Each book had its own "bad" character(s):
MN & LWW: Jadis, the White Witch
H&HB: Calormens/Rabadash
PC: Telmarines/Miraz
VOTDT: minor little issues, not one big evil
SC: Emerald Witch
TLB:Calormens/Tash
I agree with crazycigirl that to make the Emerald Witch "Jadis reborn" would be saying Aslan never truly defeated her, which would make Jadis just as or more powerful, which we all know is not true.
crazycigirl
New member
Ok, ok, not ALL giants!
But I agree with Elentari about the bad characters from each book, that's how I thought of it.
But I agree with Elentari about the bad characters from each book, that's how I thought of it.
Well, she ate the apple. Makes you wonder if she can be truly defeated at all.
HugsForReepicheep
New member
I'd say they're different, but what could imply / suggest they are the same?
gair
New member
-power hungry females using their beauty to ensnare easily led young men.
-prediliction for only colour of clothing =D
-come from the north
-are witches
In the silver chair it says (p179 in my edition, just before chapter 16)
a wicked witch (doubtless the same kind as that White witch who had brought the great winter of Narnia long ago)...."And the lesson of it all , your Higness"said the oldest dwarf "that those northern witches always mean the same thing, but in every age they have a different plan for getting it"
certainly the characters think they are different people
-prediliction for only colour of clothing =D
-come from the north
-are witches
In the silver chair it says (p179 in my edition, just before chapter 16)
a wicked witch (doubtless the same kind as that White witch who had brought the great winter of Narnia long ago)...."And the lesson of it all , your Higness"said the oldest dwarf "that those northern witches always mean the same thing, but in every age they have a different plan for getting it"
certainly the characters think they are different people
One thing that contributed to the confusion was a comment in a cover blurb in one of the versions that said they were. This blurb was written by some anonymous hack at the publisher who knew nothing about the stories; nevertheless, that offhand comment affected a lot of people's thinking about it.
To add to the confusion, I understand that in the BBC series, the same actress played both Jadis and the Queen of Underworld, which would strengthen the correlation for those who saw it (I didn't).
We've had this discussion in other threads, and the conclusion is always the same: there's no support in the text of the stories for the idea that the Queen of Underworld is Jadis.
kingcaspian
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In SC, during the parliament of owls, one of the owls said that the Lady of the Green Kirtle is probably of the same sort as Jadis, so I think they are two entirely different witches.
Josh
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One of the reasons many think they are the same is cause some edition talks about Jadis saying: She is very dangerous, even in the Silver Chair.
Also Barbera playing them added to the rumor.
And remember the line in the books that says "Though Under Earth and Throneless Now I be, while I lived, All Earth was Under Me!
Now it is possible that that line was spoken by Jadis. After Aslan killed her in LWW, she took another appearance(the Emerald Witch) in Underworld. So she is "Under Earth" and "Throneless." But while she lived(as the White Witch) she ruled. Thinking she was on top of the world she claimed "All Earth was Under ME!" So that is on hint that they are they are the same.
Also Barbera playing them added to the rumor.
And remember the line in the books that says "Though Under Earth and Throneless Now I be, while I lived, All Earth was Under Me!
Now it is possible that that line was spoken by Jadis. After Aslan killed her in LWW, she took another appearance(the Emerald Witch) in Underworld. So she is "Under Earth" and "Throneless." But while she lived(as the White Witch) she ruled. Thinking she was on top of the world she claimed "All Earth was Under ME!" So that is on hint that they are they are the same.
HugsForReepicheep
New member
So most of the reasons that leed to such conclusion are external to the books, therefore, don't count. Now that quote, Josh, is part of the books and needs to be thought of, but why would that relate specifically to Jadis? Just because she is the most powerful evil witch that appears in the series? If Lewis intended it to be so, wouldn't he be more specific on the matter, or add other quotes that pointed to that?
Josh
New member
Josh said:
But thats the point. I think Lewis didnt want fans to be completly sure if they were the same. I think he wanted to make it more mysterious. So that is why I think he didnt make the quote directly point to Jadis. Though if you think about it, that quote does give a hint of a possible connection. This is a mystery of Narnia, and I like it that way.
The only thing that seems clear to me is that people keep insisting upon seeing a connection where none exists. Lewis wasn't that tight a writer (a point that Tolkien made again and again). He just didn't get that complicated with his writing, and he wasn't the type to get into reincarnation and such. That toss-off comment toward the end of the book, the one already quoted about "those Northern witches" (note the plural) is the closest connection between the two different characters.
You could speculate some of these things about Charles Williams, perhaps, but not C.S. Lewis.
You could speculate some of these things about Charles Williams, perhaps, but not C.S. Lewis.
Elentari
New member
Exactly. We've commented in other threads about how Lewis had loose ends and contradictions in his writing. Any argument suggesting him hinting at something and not coming right out and saying it would be in contradiction to his writing style. When else does he do that? Never. He's straight forward. Finally, the WW and the LOTGK don't even ACT REMOTELY SIMILARLY. If they were the same, I think they'd have similar characteristics, besides being evil witches.
~Lava~
Well-known member
I agree with you there Elentari, they do not act the same. And that is because they are not the same.
Similarities:
1. They both are witches.
2. They both spent a conciderable amount of Narnia-time in the land north of Narnia.
3. They both are evil.
Differences:
1. Jadis doesn't do a good job of mimicing human emotion, LotGK does.
2. Jadis seems more powerful in magic than LotGK.
3. They are described differently.
4. They have different MO's.
Similarities:
1. They both are witches.
2. They both spent a conciderable amount of Narnia-time in the land north of Narnia.
3. They both are evil.
Differences:
1. Jadis doesn't do a good job of mimicing human emotion, LotGK does.
2. Jadis seems more powerful in magic than LotGK.
3. They are described differently.
4. They have different MO's.
gair
New member
4. They both like wearing only one colour =D
CS Lewis rarely describes any of his characters.
It is quite galling though that one of the few characters whose physical appearnce is noted - CAspian as a golden haired boy - is ignored in the film. Just a little petty hate. =)
There is also the fact that, in PC, when the hag is attempting to retrieve the White Witch, Caspian says she's dead, to which the hag replies, 'You can never really kill her.' Perhaps this is saying she wasn't actually killed at the end of LWW.
