Did Peter appear to be an arrogant goof in the film?

Glenburne

Scourge of Squirreldom
Staff member
Royal Guard
At the risk of getting off-topic, I don't think Peter was shown to be incompetent in PC. Arrogant--yes. But his idea of attacking the castle made more sense than just holing up in Aslan's How until everybody died of thirst, starvation, or disease caused by unsanitary living conditions. Of course, going to Aslan first was the right thing to do, but if the other two choices were the only ones, his decision was the only truly feasible choice. To stay meant to die eventually. At least in risking a direct assault they had a fighting chance. And the plan might have worked, if Caspian hadn't allowed his desire for revenge on Miraz to ruin Peter's surprise attack.

It's still possible to object to the movie because Peter is shown to be much more arrogant than Lewis even suggested, but the movie really didn't make Peter out to be a tactical idiot.

As for the VDT movie, I'll probably get the DVD even if they do mess it up big time. (I hope not.) A bit more intense focus to the journey, I can handle. But if they add a plotline that is clearly from another book, I won't be happy.
 
The ways they made Peter look incompetent were:

1) Getting into a pointless fight at the start AND losing it.

2) Losing his sword when fencing with Caspian.

3) Listening for even an instant to Jadis, whose evil he understood every bit as well as Edmund did.

4) Not being the one to think of the duel with Miraz.
 
iMove these posts out of the VDT forum and into a new thread for discussing Peter in the PC film.

I personally agree with CF that the film did a hatchet job on Peter the Magnificent and made him look more like Peter the sullen, bratty teenager.
 
Peter did not need to be the way he was in the movie. He acted like a stuck-up 10-year-old rather than the High King.
And plus he practically got told-off by his little sister. The castle scene was completly unessicary and adds to the Peter-the-not-so-magnificent. The castle raid was made a faliure by both Caspian and Peter; Caspian by trying to kill Miraz, and Peter by not calling off the raid while they had the chance.

In answer to the title of the thread; Yes Peter did appear to be an arrogant goof in the movie.
 
Thanks Mozart, I think so too. They didn't really need to rehash the story of a bad boy turning good; we had that already in LWW. They could have followed the story in the book more, and shown why Peter was Magnificent, and used the transformation on "the boy" Caspian -- only they had cast Caspian as a grown man, so a lot of the growing up he did in the book would not have worked in the film.
 
They almost completely ignored the main character of the whole book...Trufflehunter the Badger. And no, I'm not prejudiced. Well, maybe a little....
 
Just to answer Copperfox`s points,

1) We don`t realy know exactly how the fight started but I suspect Peter was not at fault. It was probably one of those dumb schoolboy things where a couple of bullies were larking about and chose the wrong person to bully. Think about it, in a stuation where a normal kid would cave in, Peter just would not back down if threatened.

2)I agree but he wasn`t the only one. It was the fault of the fight arranger in this film who seemed to be a bit overfond of having people drop swords.The same sort of thing also tended to happen in the duel, which explaines how Peter ends up fatally wounding Miraz with his own sword.

3)I think he should be commended for holding out for as long! What appears to be happening in that scene is that whoever is standing inside that blue circle has been partially drawn in to the Ice Realm where Jadis`s spirit has been trapped ever since she was killed (notice his breath). So he is being subjected to the full force of her will and magic in her own realm!
In what is actually a battle of wills he weakens a bit but manages to distract her long enough for Edmund to destroy the doorway, sending her back where she came from.

4) Again I more or less agree but I think they felt that they had to show Caspian as being somewhat repentant for his earlier behavior in the castle raid and the Jadis summoning scene, which is why they had him come up with the idea instead.
 
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However Peter got INTO that opening fight, he should have retained enough of his Narnian fighting instincts that no FOUR boys could have withstood him. Adamson SPECIFICALLY wanted Peter to be humiliated, gratuitously. And even if Caspian is charitably interpreted as trying to make up for his error at the castle, his being the one to suggest the duel STILL is an entirely INTENTIONAL diminishing of Peter's role as an experienced mentor.
 
Right, and also at the fight at the beginning, Susan's knowing "Not again!" or "What was it this time?" or whatever she says makes it clear that Peter is always getting into fights now. Plus he explains what happened, and it even sounds stupid: they bumped into him and told him to apologize, and he was too proud? It is not king-like at all.

Part of the reason Peter couldn't be cast as a mentor in the film, the way he was in the book, is that Caspian is clearly older than Peter. That was a bad error, in my mind, to use such an old actor for the Caspian role. They almost had to change the nature of the story and the relationships between the old royalty and Caspian due to that.
 
Indeed. They wanted a sexy Caspian for the teenyboppers to adore, and minor trash like, oh, the entire story Mr. Lewis wrote, had to give way for that supreme priority.
 
However Peter got INTO that opening fight, he should have retained enough of his Narnian fighting instincts that no FOUR boys could have withstood him. Adamson SPECIFICALLY wanted Peter to be humiliated, gratuitously. And even if Caspian is charitably interpreted as trying to make up for his error at the castle, his being the one to suggest the duel STILL is an entirely INTENTIONAL diminishing of Peter's role as an experienced mentor.

He should have been able to fight off four boys at once? Narnian fighting instincts are great if you have Narnian weapons, but Peter was fist fighting. And Lewis never suggested that Peter had learned karate, so holding off that many opponents would be a little much. And, as far as martial arts go, my former tae kwon do instructor warned us that, in some circumstances, even a black belt can be put on the ground. Training helps but cannot always guarantee victory.

As for the fighting-Caspian scene--yes, Peter lost his sword, as did Caspian, but if their fight hadn't been interrupted, Peter would have smashed Caspian's head with that rock before Caspian had a chance to get the sword out of the tree.
 
I suspect that they should have perhaps shown a bit more of the fight to show how it started or just handled it a bit better (or just not put it in in the first place?).
As it is, all we see is Peter fighting with two boys who are a bit bigger than he is and the fight is actually taking place in a rather dangerous location i.e a steep stairwell and rail platform located fairly deep underground and I cant help wondering where the station staff are not to intervene sooner.
Now as to Peter`s combat skills, yes he probably does have a lot of knowledge but how does he apply it? I assume he might have a superior knowledge of strategy, know how to use various types of weaponry and have some knowledge of unarmed combat. (This is of course assuming that his memories haven`t faded in to the background as in the book,)
He has the problem though that he is physicaly less able than he was in Narnia,
He will of course also be fighting with honour so he will acting with some restraint, (he dosn`t want to kill them after all) so he is a bit limited in what he can do, while his opponents appear to be just thugs who are quite willing to `put the boot in` while down.
I suspect his best tactic is to fight defensively until help arrives, which is exactly what happens.
Now as to Susan, given that the Pevensies go to what appear to be single sex boarding schools so I cant help wondering just how much contact she has had with Peter over the past year and its hinted that she has been having her own problems.
So I wonder if she`s reacting to things she`s just heard about her brother rather than things she knows first hand.
His explaination as to what happened did sound a bit lame but these things othen do after the event. Particularly to sisters a couple of years younger than you are. (Sorry sis[lol])
 
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Of course I can see even Peter being unable to overcome four _skilled_ opponents; but the ones in that station would not have had anything anywhere remotely close to the experience he had had.



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"Every liberal is in reaction against the previous form of liberalism."

-- Archbishop Fulton Sheen
 
Of course I can see even Peter being unable to overcome four _skilled_ opponents; but the ones in that station would not have had anything anywhere remotely close to the experience he had had.

But he wasn't in Narnia and it had been a year. It would be natural for him to forget some of his fighting skill in a year. And even in the book it says that they kids lost some of their former abilities when they went back to our world.
 
Even if I agree on that, it does not change the fact that Andrew Adamson WANTED to make Peter look inferior and stupid, ANY way he could manage it. This is the man who relished making Robin Hood an obnoxious idiot; he loves to pull down what is noble.
 
But there were four of them, several of whom were bigger than Peter; and they weren't just normal schoolboys, they were bullies. (It's clear from Peter's explanation that the other boys had baited him into fighting, which is something a normal schoolboy would be unlikely to do.) So I think it's at least reasonable to assume that the bullies had done the same to other people and were experienced in at least that type of fighting (i.e., prodding people into situations where they can be easily beaten up). No, they probably wouldn't have lasted a minute in a swordfight against Peter. But fighting with swords and fists are two different things.

Since much of the fighting in ancient and medieval times was done with swords/spears/clubs etc., Peter wouldn't have been likely to get involved in fistfighting on a battlefield. That sort of thing would only happen if he had lost all his other weapons. Never in the books or the movies do we see him fistfighting in Narnia. I'm sure he knew something about it, but that something doesn't make him Bruce Lee, especially when he's fighting four people.

Take this scenario: a bully bumps Peter. Peter is irritated but ignores it. Then the bully grabs him by the shirt and orders him to apologize. His friends are standing there, ready to back him up. Peter's private space is being invaded, his honor is being questioned, and he is furious; so he socks the bully in the jaw. But the bully's friends were already prepared to back him up. What if one of them got lucky in hitting Peter in the head at the right place? He would start out with a serious disadvantage. Or if the fight starts in a corner where Peter doesn't have much room to move about. All we know when the scene opens is that he's in trouble; we don't know anything else except that he's seriously outnumbered. Two to one would be bad; three to one is worse; but four to one? Great fighter or not, those are some pretty serious odds.

As for Andrew Adamson wanting to make Peter look inferior and stupid: I don't think that was the reason he caused the movie script to be as it is. I read an interview in WORLD magazine with Adamson discussing some of the plot changes he had made. His explanation for the changes with Peter was the fact that he started wondering how the kids would react to being so suddenly thrust back into the roles of children. (As in, what would a thirty-year-old do if he was suddenly made fifteen again?) Adamson said that Lewis never really answered that question, which set him to thinking about how Peter would react emotionally. Between that and the difficulty of making a movie out of a book like PC, he made some changes to Peter's character that he thought would reflect how a real Peter would react.

I think that Peter's reaction to a year in our world did not have to be the one Adamson set forth; but it was the reaction that some grown men would definitely have if they were shrunk down to the size of boys again. It's less "teen angst" than adult angst. Whether Adamson could have done things better or not (remember, Peter did lead his siblings wrong in one of the book's many sequences), his intent, at least, wasn't merely to degrade Peter, but to be realistic.
 
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Yes, I was already aware long ago of Adamson's phony excuse. But he didn't JUST show how a man might react to being changed back to a boy, he showed how an INFERIOR AND FOOLISH man might react to being changed back to a boy. The choice of emphasis was very intentional--and not to be marvelled at, coming from a director who also diminished Aslan Himself.

By the way, much of the Narnian culture is based on ancient Greek civilization, and it was the norm for Greek warriors to be trained in unarmed as well as armed combat.
 
Perhaps the Greeks were trained that way, but the fact remains that Lewis never showed Peter being trained that way. (Actually, Lewis never showed Peter being trained at all.) Narnia had many Greek creatures, but where culture was concerned, Narnia was more like northern Europe. (Remember the Dwarves--a Germanic invention.)

How do you think Adamson diminished Aslan? The central theme of PC was that whenever the Pevensies or Caspian tried to do anything without His guidance, all they got was a mess. In both movies, Aslan is the one that saves Narnia, not any human, "competent" or not.
 
Adamson diminished Aslan, among other things, by casting doubt on His omniscience--making it seem as if He had needed to learn things about the Pevensies from the Beavers. And in "Prince NON-Caspian," he eliminated numerous things Aslan did in the book which had illustrated His divine nature.
 
I think some of it may have been done the way it was because they did not have a guaranteed shot at making the entire series. So each movie tried to make some desperate bids to keep up interest for the next one.

Think of it this way. Take Peter Rabbit. A sweet little story about a bunny that raided Mr. McGregor's garden and got a tummy ache.

"You can't have a movie like that without at least some conflict to get the audience on the edge of its seat."

"Ok, we'll have Peter fight Mr. McGregor and barely escape with his life."

***

"In our last film, the critics said there were no car chases. I think we ought to have one in the sequel. Mr. McGregor wants to chase Peter down, so he hops in his Aston Martin and blazes off after Peter. The rabbit, seeing a hare-pin curve ahead, jumps out just in time. McGregor follows Peter's car over the cliff and lands at the bottom of the gorge with a massive fireball."

***

"The car chase was good, but we dropped the ball when you didn't listen to my advice to put Miranda in. You know how rabbits are. I know how rabbits are. Every little fifth grader out there knows. They just won't believe he's a virgin...."

Etc etc etc....
 
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