Humans in Narnia - SPOILERS for all books

Jenn1

New member
Okay we know in LWW that Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy are meant to sit on the throne, and hence, mostly with Aslan's help/doing defeat the White Witch.

Now, with HHB, I with King Lune and his sons Cor and Corrin who are about 14 (timeline you can find though Narniaweb there's a link) Anyway, King Lune was around in Archenland durning the beginning the children's regin, and his father and grandfather and so on before him while the White Witch was there. Now I can guess she was only intersted in Narnia, but all the same, I would wonder if she was ... oh I don't know interesting in Archenland?

Because don't forget Jadis, aka White Witch was in the MN were King Frank and Queen Helen started their regin. I believe it must have been Swanwhite (LB -Jewel) was the last of their children maybe or one of them. But it was King Col and some people who started Archenland.

But my point in all this is, Lewis never really explian much on Archenland save for the story of The Horse and His Boy, and I know he never meant to do anything after LWW, but it's too bad it wasn't some how explained better. Any thoughts?
 
But my point in all this is, Lewis never really explian much on Archenland save for the story of The Horse and His Boy, and I know he never meant to do anything after LWW, but it's too bad it wasn't some how explained better. Any thoughts?

LWW was written before any of the others... Lewis may never have originally decided there was a place that was Archenland. He may not have decided on it until HHB. I'll ask Lewis in heaven though.;) (I'll have a waterfall of questions when I get to heaven.:D)
 
One thing I would like to know is how there were humans left after Frank and Helen's sons and daughters died. It is stated in MN that they married nymphs and wood/river gods. How could the descendants of Frank II and his siblings been humans?

Maybe that was why Jais wasn't too concerned with the Archenlanders or the Islanders, they weren't full human. There are two thoughts on the Calormenes--that they were descendants of the Archenlanders (as it states in the timeline) or that they entered into Narnia like the Telmar ancestors as has been postulated here (I don't recall who--Inky?). Of course, if the latter way, they could have infused more human blood into the Archenlanders--including the royal family.

By the way, the timeline is wrong on the founding of Archenland. At the end of MN, it states that Frank and Helen's second son (unnamed) founded Archenland. That was over a century before the listing of 150 as was shown in the timeline.

MrBob
 
But it was King Col and some people who started Archenland.

He was prince Col before that, I'm not sure if he was the son or not, but I found that on a website that has Narnia info on it.

Your probbly right MrBob about the Archenlanders and the Islanders not being fully human because the sons and daughters married nymphs and wood/river gods.

I read this more closely on this webesite. Archenland

In The Magician's Nephew, it is said that the second son of King Frank became the first king of Archenland. Aslan himself had decreed Archenland's existence before King Frank took the throne. Archenland was believed to be under Narnian rule until the year 180. In this year King Col (former Prince Col of Narnia) lead the first human inhabitants into Archenland, separating it from Narnian rule.

During the rule of Jadis (900-1000), during the Age of Winter it is uncertain what exactly Archenland did. The people of Archenland knew of the witch, but obviously did not end up stopping the witch if they had tried. It is believed that the population of humans in Archenland was completely unknown to Narnia at the time.
 
LWW was written before any of the others... Lewis may never have originally decided there was a place that was Archenland. He may not have decided on it until HHB. I'll ask Lewis in heaven though.;) (I'll have a waterfall of questions when I get to heaven.:D)
No, Lewis mentioned Archenland in Caspian - he even had Dr. Cornelius suggest Caspian flee to King Nain for refuge. So the concept is an early one in the series.

Jenn1, the timeline you reference has been the source of a lot of dispute on this forum and elsewhere. There's serious doubt that Lewis actually wrote it or even knew of it - it clearly contradicts the story lines in some places. Therefore I (and many others) have never considered the contents "canon", making any references drawn from it (e.g. "King Col") suspect as well.

MrBob, you're correct that the descendants of King Frank and Queen Helen were not 100% human, but I suspect that even some human blood was sufficient to qualify as a Son of Adam or Daughter of Eve. Remember this is hinted at by the Beavers in their original description of Jadis, and how she bases her claim to the Narnian throne on her human ancestry. Mr. Beaver states "there isn't a drop of real human blood in the Witch" - implying that had there been "a drop", her claim would have been stronger.
 
PotW, you once again took the words right out of my mouth. I do believe that Archenland was a thought established in Lewis's mind shortly after he decided to make the Chronicles a series. I have a couple of theories as to why Archenland would never have been a problem for the witch: The first is that the Witch's winter, in its own right, made the Pass to Archenland un-passable; the second is that the Witch made the Pass un-passable by more than just her winter (be it guards or large sheet of thick Ice). At any rate, there was some reason why humans never crossed the border from Archenland or Telmar or sailed in from Galma, Calormen, the Seven Islands, or the Lone Islands. Maybe the winter was too unbearable for people; maybe the ice pack made it impossible for ships to enter Narnian waters. Maybe the fear of the witch even affected the Tisroc
 
They may have entered Narnia, come to think of it--can't you see four people deciding to take on the White Witch? But we see from LWW that she's got spies looking for humans everywhere--it wouldn't surprise me if she killed or turned them to stone. (And that would explain where all the courtiers come from in HHB.) If enough people went horrifically missing or were very messily killed early on, it might deter the rest of them--and as Lava says, the pass may have been blocked; the harbors too, maybe with ice?

I have to say I've always thought that the Calormenes must have had some group from Earth show up; maybe they intermarried with Lune's family. Otherwise there just doesn't seem like enough human blood to keep the Archenland royal family looking human, let alone the human populations of Archenland and Calormen (regardless of whether they'd have been considered daughters of Eve/sons of Adam).
 
"He was prince Col before that, I'm not sure if he was the son or not, but I found that on a website that has Narnia info on it."

Jenn1, I would be interested to know who wrote that wiki site. It is contradictory if Helen's and Frank's second son declared himelf king but nothing was done with it for about 150 years. For Prince Frances (for lack of a better name) to declare himself king of Archenland, he would really be required to actually bring a contingency down to the area. Otherwise, he would have just been Prince of Archenland.

I think the person who wrote that narnia wiki entry just tried to bring both statements in line with each other rather than saying that one was wrong. By the way, what "human contingency" could he have brought into Archenland? By that point, all pure humans had died.

MrBob
 
After reading, one thing I think about why Narnia wouldn't have paid much attention to Archenland (or their human inhabitants) is as simple as they didn't care. Narnia was the priority. Even today a lot of us do that. We have our country and we couldn't tell you more than a handful of facts about the country next to us. So, to me, the Narnians just didn't care about Archenland. That and CS Lewis wrote The Chronicles of Narnia. The Tales of Archenland would be a very different set of stories. (Fanfic inspiration anyone? :D)
 
If C.S. lewis didn't write much about Archenland or if The narnian's just don't give a pickle,then can i tell you what i've created over there?
You see I have written a series of books about what happened after narnia,
Narnia exists but it has competition, There are three new countries: Azalae,Narcieria,and Quis que. The princess of Narcieria was the daughter of the king and queen of Azalae,she was whisked away to narcieria as a baby and
was raised by a Magnificent white tiger named Crystal. Meanwhile in Azalae,her parents are freaking out. A rose fairy who is the sister of the evil wizard who kidnapped the princess in the first place,Ok hang on a sec. I need to tell you everybody's names so i can go through this quicker. The king of azalae is Samuel,his wife is Diana. The princess is Tigerlily. The rose fairy is Primrose. The main bad guy is Korbeth,the wizard and culprit of tigerlily's kidnapping. Ok so Primrose casts a spell to see who would be a perfect match for tigerlily since her brother korbth said she would die on her seventeenth birthday and the only way to save her would for her to marry who ever was her match. So primrose looked to see who would it would be.
Well what do you know,It was Caspian! Primrose reset his life to a baby.
His whole life played over again. It stopped at VOTD. Instead of going to find the lords,he was invited to win squireship in azalae. Where tigerlily was(she had been rescued) When caspian's life played over,everything changed. His name was Benjamin Caspian,not just caspian,but everyone called him caspian anyway. So he goes to to azalae,and he marries tigerlily.There is a whole ton of stuff that happens first but that would take so long. So heres what happens in Narnia.
One year after tigerlily and ben's marriage. Aslan loses his mind. He ate something or drank something and he went Koo-Koo. So narnia went into utter chaos. All the fauns and stuff turned evil and killed the telmarines, all the old ways into narnia opened up again. Peter founf the old wardrobe and for fun walked into it. But he discovered he'd made his way into narnia again. Peter discovers narcieria and rebuilds narnia.

Oh snap,
the rest will have to wait,my timer for my turn on the computer is ringing.
I will post the rest of the story though. It's very interesting.
BYE!
-Mrs. Tigerlily Caspian
 
Ok here is the rest of the story,
Peter rebuilds narnia, and since he doesn't have his siblings around he has full power. The messed up narnian air gets in his lungs and he becomes evil.
He thinks that this is all Caspians fault and seeks out long lost members of his family to destroy them and then him. One of his long lost family members is his cousin Auraldine on his mothers side. She is princess of archenland. She's hiding in a masquarade ball costume from peter. Peter finally finds caspian in Narcieria,(he has a family of three now) He instigates three battles with him before he is finally killed by Tigerlily's adopted sister Iris. Susan and Lucy and Edmund also discover another way into narnia. They arrive before peter is killed and susan is also killed because she is pronce to the messed up narnian air which makes her boy crazy over caspian,and Tigerlily is not happy with that. Edmund and lucy are so sweet and innocent though,they aren't killed and they become the king and queen. Now you're probably wondering what happened to Rilian, He survived that time reset in narnia. since his mother was dead when time reset and he was still alive,and caspian's narnian life stopped at VODT,he was still there. He is raised by a baron and baroness who find out who's son he is. They take him to caspian and Tigerlily and with much effort to get tigerlily to understand there was no going behind anyones back,they took rilian. Then later, caspian's cousin on his father's side.(miraz's son) who happens to be none other than ben barnes finds a way into narnia,and also breathing the screwed up air,seeks revenge on his father's death. He kills every single person in narnia,archenland,narcieria,everywhere. A handful of children survive. All of the creatures are turned over to the government for studying(they all die because of the chemicals) The scientists go to narnia and take rockets to Tarva and alambil. They find aliens up there and take them to the real world and of course as in E.T. They die too,but they don't wake up again. Narnia and all the other worlds are destroyed and are never heard from again. One of the survivors, Whose name is Peter as well,lives with his Uncle Ben. (He was one of caspian's thirteen children.) And his aunt May. They change their last names to Parker instead of Caspian to hide from Ben barnes. Of course If this kid's last name is parker than you must know he turns into Spider man. Aut may acts as if she doesn't know so she can see when she can tell him about his family history. One day aunt may tells him to Read all the narnia books. Then when he is finished she hands him six other books titled the "Whiskes Away Adventures." he also reads those.
Then she gives him the coraline book by neil gaimen and the stardust comic book and the picture of dorian gray as well. Finally peter wants to read something besides fantasy and starts getting bored with the books his aunt is giving him. After he had finished all the books Aunt may finds Mary jane watson,anna watson is her adoptive mother. She hooks her up with peter. Finally peter is like "what is going on!" and asks aunt may exactly that. She tells him that everyone of those books are history records. The charcters are his family. The authors actually saw those events. Peter then learns that his girlfriend mary jane is his cousin, the famous actor Charley cox is his uncle,The other mother from coraline is real and coraline is his cousin too! Dorian gray is the reason he is alive and Aunt may has also been faking an american accent for 15 years! Aunt may tells him about how ben barnes is looking for him and that's why he couldn't go to england on his class feild trip,why they changed their last name to parker and why aunt may purposely managed to get that spider to bite him. Peter confesses about being spiderman."If you can keep all that a secret,then i will tell you mine" he says. Peter then travels to england to rescue his uncle Charley and battle Ben. Ben is killed and peter and charley travel the world to find Coraline and Mandy,their last two cousins. Peter marries mary jane(who's real name is consuela) and charley lives with his two neices in yorkshire. Yes i know it's gross that peter married his cousin,but his dad married his cousin too!
And that is what happened to narnia. I'll try and publish the books sometime.I could post a few chapters too!
Sorry this is so long,but i thought you all would find it interesting.
-Mrs. Caspian
 
Wow!! That sounds like a lot of thought has gone into it. It sounds very interesting. Just a note - we've got a specific section for FanFic so if you could post that kind of stuff in there - here's the link:

http://narniafans.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=34

But yeh, post in there and I'm sure there'll be a lot of people interested in what you've been writing! Keep up the good work :D

P.S. I like that they go to live in Yorkshire! That's where I come from!
 
I would imagine that Narnia was the Israel of its world. A sort of "holy land" with sites like the Stone Table likely being pilgrimage places that were visited by foreigners sympathetic to Aslan.

Quite possibly that world was full of small countries that don't show on the map, for as it is clear to anyone that looks at it, if the world had been flat and round there was a lot of it cut off in the map in the books. I would imagine undiscovered islands that might not have even known of the mainland, free cities (such as Earth's Vatican City) and whatnot. And it would also be abundantly completely and utterly clear to me that the exact boundaries shifted several times throughout history with some areas likely bouncing between Narnia and Calormen several times depending on the fortunes of war. These would be similar to the Alsace of France/Germany or the Karelia of Russia/Finland. The culture in such areas would likely be a hodgepodge of things from both sides of the divide.
 
I would imagine that Narnia was the Israel of its world. A sort of "holy land" with sites like the Stone Table likely being pilgrimage places that were visited by foreigners sympathetic to Aslan.

Quite possibly that world was full of small countries that don't show on the map, for as it is clear to anyone that looks at it, if the world had been flat and round there was a lot of it cut off in the map in the books. I would imagine undiscovered islands that might not have even known of the mainland, free cities (such as Earth's Vatican City) and whatnot. And it would also be abundantly completely and utterly clear to me that the exact boundaries shifted several times throughout history with some areas likely bouncing between Narnia and Calormen several times depending on the fortunes of war. These would be similar to the Alsace of France/Germany or the Karelia of Russia/Finland. The culture in such areas would likely be a hodgepodge of things from both sides of the divide.
I haven't a clue what you just said.
 
Wow!! That sounds like a lot of thought has gone into it. It sounds very interesting. Just a note - we've got a specific section for FanFic so if you could post that kind of stuff in there - here's the link:

http://narniafans.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=34

But yeh, post in there and I'm sure there'll be a lot of people interested in what you've been writing! Keep up the good work :D

P.S. I like that they go to live in Yorkshire! That's where I come from!

Yes alot of thought goes into that stuff. But it's usually as the words go onto the paper. I don't think out what i'm writing,i just write and a perfect story comes out. But i also am not very creative,i just take other peoples charcters and smash them together with a small majority of my own.
I will post a synopsis of the first book in that section now,you should go read it.
-Mrs. Caspian
 
Maybe that was why Jais wasn't too concerned with the Archenlanders or the Islanders, they weren't full human. There are two thoughts on the Calormenes--that they were descendants of the Archenlanders (as it states in the timeline) or that they entered into Narnia like the Telmar ancestors as has been postulated here (I don't recall who--Inky?). Of course, if the latter way, they could have infused more human blood into the Archenlanders--including the royal family.
MrBob

Genetically--assuming genetics in Narnia work the same as in our world--the Calormenes could not have been descendents of the Archenlanders. Archenlanders had light skin, probably with no genes for dark skin. Therefore, had the Calormenes descended from them, their skin color would have been different. (Although technically the Archenlanders could have descended from the Calormenes, if we didn't already know their descent. If the Calormenes were medium brown, they would have had some light-skinned genes, and if the lighter-skinned Calormenes intermarried for a while... *ahem* end of science lecture)

I guess the Calormenes entered in a manner similar to the Telmarines. No telling from what world, though.
 
That's a very good explanation,
but didn't the telmarines come from telmar?
Me and my sister made a joke about how the "sea faring briggins" go there.
This is nothing permanent though,we had a cup of coffee and we were bouncing off the walls. Anyway,we said that the first people to come through the chasm that lead into narnia was dora and diego(nickalodeon.) The had a pirate episode once and we lead into a story about cornelius telling caspian who his first ancesters were. Of course,i'm sure that a lot of people on here don't fancy that show,and of course,Caspian either fell off his chair or screamed to high heaven.
 
"Anyway,we said that the first people to come through the chasm that lead into narnia was dora and diego"

Well, Boots would have fit right in, moondust. So did Diego change his name to Caspian when he got older?

MrBob
 
There's a more significant question about Archenland: both HHB and LB indicate that the Calormene Tisrocs had always wanted the northern countries for their Empire. It's obvious (and HHB tells us) why he didn't invade Narnia while the Witch was there, but why not Archenland, when it was free from Narnia's protection? And why didn't the Witch invade Archenland? How did it remain free when sandwiched between two great powers, neither of which wanted it to exist?

Peepiceek
 
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