Problem with "The Problem of Pain"

TimmyofOz

Well-known member
I recently went through "The Problem of Pain" again. Though it has some good defenses of Christianity it is in no way as good as "Mere Christianity". Its worse flaw is describing the origin of Man and the origin of sin. Because once again Lewis takes the view that God somehow uses evolution to explain the development of Man. By not using the biblical canon to explain Man and sin it make little sense. Lewis even appears to be frustrated with the "Biblical Myth" which he seems to imply make more sense.
 
Do note that when saying "myth," Mr. Lewis did not mean "deliberate lie." He thus was neither accusing Christianity OF lying, nor excusing it FOR supposedly lying. As for evolution, there was not nearly so much evidence casting doubt on that theory in his day as there is now; and because Mr. Lewis wanted to prove that being Christian didn't make you anti-intellectual, he accommodated what appeared to be established science.
 
I'm not sure that really excuses his choice. After all, what were Arians doing if not trying to conform Christianity to the 'established science' of the day (ie. Greek philosophy)? However, with him and the many other Christian writers who have accepted evolution, I do my best to see past the problems and to draw on the many great insights they have. After all, none of us has a perfect theology, but that doesn't mean we can't bless others with what we do have.

Peepiceek
 
It is also worth mentioning that Problem of Pain was actually his first Apologetic work. Itw as published in 1943, and Mere Christianity wasn't untill 1950. He tends to lacth on to Evolution less and elss in later works. When oen sees them al lwe see further Lewis's journey of belief. Keep in mind when he wrote PoP he was still a relatively brand new Christian tryign to reconcile what he knew with what he belirved.
 
One of the best things in "Problem of Pain" has nothing at all to do with evolution. It's where Mr. Lewis is discussing divine judgment, and says that "the flag of truth" must be raised over all creation.
 
I don't think that Lewis' allowing for the possibility of evolution (or relying on it as part of his idea of creation) makes the creation story lack sense. If I recall correctly, and it has been a while since I read Problem of Pain, he says that if God took millions of years of evolution to create mankind, then clearly He had a plan for us in mind? What is it he says, exactly, Timmy, that you found disturbing?
 
Once again, Copperfox has read my mind. I love PoP, it;s an awesome read. Life without pain or loss or discomfort is not life at all.

I think Lewis doesn't exclude the possibility of the Garden of Eden, he says something parenthetically, like "why couldn't it be a garden?" to challenge skeptics to use their imagination. The point is, Biblical stories sound mythical, but that's only because they have extraordinary and miraculous qualities. Just because things like that don't happen every day doesn't mean they never happened. Why couldn't God have made the Week of Creation seven very long days? Why couldn't he slow the sun down the fith and sixth days and allow the flying, sea-bound and land-crawling dinos to do their work clearing the way for man, then have the meteor come down, then have man created all before sundown?

God is much more creative than man.
 
Has anyone gotten a copy of The Magician’s Twin yet. How is it? It purports that Lewis had alot of problems with Darwinism.
 
Well, a couple of things to understand about Lewis: first off, he made no pretense of expertise outside of his area of study. If I remember his writings aright, he always allowed for the possibility of gradual development, though he never made any of his thinking predicate on that being true or false. He might have admitted the possibility of gradual development of species (and, you must admit, it is a possibility, though current genetic science can't explain how it would happen), but in at least one place he pointed out that even in his day biological science was starting to draw away from the Darwinist position. He also wrote a very good essay somewhere where he pointed out that the acceptance of Darwinism took place on the basis of philosophical enthusiasm rather than proper scientific examination - to use modern jargon, it wasn't well "peer-reviewed" - and that in itself made the theory suspect and weak.

Another point is that he used the term "myth" in a totally different way than most moderns. Usually in our culture "myth" is effectively translated "elaborate fairy tale". The way Lewis, Tolkien, and the rest of the Inklings used it, it meant "a story that contained more truth than it stated." A good example of how he explored this is his classic Till We Have Faces. Thus he could (and, I believe, did) refer to "The Incarnation Myth" in such a way that didn't deny a bit of its historicity (in which he firmly believed), but reinforced the fact that there was a LOT MORE going on during the Incarnation than even eyewitnesses could grasp.

Thus you needn't fret when Lewis uses a term like "Creation Myth". He believed in creation, all right - he was just pointing out that there was a lot more to the story than a simple reading would deliver.

On that point, I highly recommend John Walton's superb The Lost World of Genesis One. Fantastic work.
 
Reread the book last week. 80% of the book is great, except for Lewis' ideas of a souless pre-adamic race of humans. Fine Lewis excepts evolution but he also must know it makes no since in a Biblical framework.
 
I suppose it depends how you read the Bible -- some believers like Lewis see it as "true myth," so it's not critical that every single word be literally true. But I agree with you, Problem of Pain is quite an insightful and astute book.

Happy New Year Timmy!
 
"Problem of Pain" is an important work for our time, because modern people's inflated sense of entitlement extends to feeling entitled to curse God at every pretext.

Peter Kreeft wrote a similar book, one which talked about God being with us IN our sufferings.
 
"Problem of Pain" is an important work for our time, because modern people's inflated sense of entitlement extends to feeling entitled to curse God at every pretext.

Peter Kreeft wrote a similar book, one which talked about God being with us IN our sufferings.

The idea of God being with us in our sufferings is a very important one. In my experience, I've been the most aware of God's love and power in my life during my lowest points. At those times, my pride is entirely stripped away, and I have to rely fully on God's grace, not my own strength. I am humbled, and my faith in God is increased. I think experiences like that are part of the reason Jesus refers to those who suffer as blessed.
 
Because maybe other books can help us understand how others have dealt with suffering, and how they've grown closer to Christ through the process. For my part, I'm really profiting from The Story of a Soul, but Saint Thérèse of Lisieux.
 
Oops - sorry, Jadis - I meant to quote that post, and ended up editing it. Fortunately nothing you wrote was lost.
 
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