Seven Friends of Narnia?

jillthevaliant

jillthevaliant

New member
Ok, so I was wondering what they mean by the Seven Friends of Narnia because I counted up 8, not 7, off the top of my head. Is Susan a Friend of Narnia?
 
Susan WAS a friend of Narnia. We learn throughout the books that she was no longer considered a friend of Narnia by the end.

Lest you think this meant she was evil in her heart or an enemy of Narnia, no. Friends are people you can count on. She drifted away from her first love and with that distance and denial came a lapse of her friendship.

Almost everyone here on the forum believes that Susan, before she died, came to regret this and turned in her heart to seek Aslan's forgiveness.
 
susan grew to the area of self-centered teenage-hood.

but from there as she grew on she probaly restored her love for narnia.
i wonder if aslan ever lead her there?
 
I tend to disagree that it's an age thing. And I will use C.S. Lewis to back me up. Pardon me while I call in a medium.....

First off we have King Frank I and Queen Helen. Lovely couple. Came in as older folk with a taxi business. Stayed there, died there, had kids there. Maturity, love, marital intimacy, none of those things seemed to make them out of place.

And then there is Caspian X. He went on adventures as a youngster, but he also grew old and died there. How about IX, VIII, VII, VI, V, IV, III, II, and Capsian I? They fell in love and did everything you learened about in health class and that didn't keep them from being Narnian humans.

Susan nearly became Mrs. Rabadash the Ridiculous. Yeah.

Matter of factly I am working on a detailed editorial for the front page of narniafans.com on this topic. Rather than a childish place, it is a place where kids had to become adults at a very young age. Even Tirian had to give up Bism for the duties of the throne. He basically went through a midlife crisis in his late teens! Career, family, duty keeping him from taking the ultimate camping trip. Yeah, bummer, it's not always easy being King.

And Edmund. Stabbed in the shoulder by a woman that wanted to kill him in cold blood.

Hardly childish. Not a bit. These kids were both children AND ADULTS in all the ways that counted.
 
Well, I knew that Susan wasn't evil or anything, but you see, I'm rereading LB, so I don't really remember everything. So was Susan at that dinner that was mentioned in the book or not (ch. 4, but I don't remember what page)?
 
Right. I posted the full section of the discussion somewhere around here, but the gist is that she got distracted by "lipstick and nylons and invitations", and scoffed at the others for continuing those "games we used to play as children." A textbook example of the lesson which shows up so often in Lewis' works: our trivial, everyday choices are what turn us away from Grace. The great, dramatic, high-profile Rubicon-like moments of decision are few, but the daily choices are many, and how we make every one will turn us either toward Grace or away from it. By a thousand little choices, Susan turned away from Grace.

Needless to say, in our sex-obsessed culture, I saw many blind modern fools interpret this as Lewis opposing sex. "Susan discovered sex, and fell from grace! She couldn't enter Narnia because she begain expressing her sexual identity!" (You wouldn't believe how many fools I read who thought that.) Nothing could be further from the truth. Lewis is quite explicit as to where Susan's failings lay, and you can see them coming out in Caspian (read what Aslan says to her when they first meet.)
 
PrinceOfTheWest said:
Needless to say, in our sex-obsessed culture, I saw many blind modern fools interpret this as Lewis opposing sex. "Susan discovered sex, and fell from grace! She couldn't enter Narnia because she begain expressing her sexual identity!" (You wouldn't believe how many fools I read who thought that.)
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"A man with your advantages" has almost certainly read "Fern-seed and elephants", and will know that this is no new phenomenon. :rolleyes:
 
PrinceOfTheWest said:
Right. I posted the full section of the discussion somewhere around here, but the gist is that she got distracted by "lipstick and nylons and invitations", and scoffed at the others for continuing those "games we used to play as children." A textbook example of the lesson which shows up so often in Lewis' works: our trivial, everyday choices are what turn us away from Grace. The great, dramatic, high-profile Rubicon-like moments of decision are few, but the daily choices are many, and how we make every one will turn us either toward Grace or away from it. By a thousand little choices, Susan turned away from Grace.

Needless to say, in our sex-obsessed culture, I saw many blind modern fools interpret this as Lewis opposing sex...
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Does it actually talk about the lipstick and stuff? See, I just don't remember this stuff!

And also, I too find it odd that people would suggest that Susan began having sex, not only because of the absurdity of the notion, but also because that just did not happen back in the 1940's in England. A 16-ish free girl that was not married would not be doing that kind of stuff. And I don't think that Lewis would be able to even say that about Susan, no matter how far she might have wandered from grace.
 
*Ahem*

To quote in the large edition (all the books in chronilogical order, not the order Lewis wrote them in) on page 741... or for those of you with the individual versions, it's at the end of Chapter 12, Through The Stable Door.

"Sire," said Tirian, when he had greeted all these, "if I have read the chronicles aright, there should be another. Has not your Majesty two sisters? Where is Queen Susan?"
"My sister Susan," answered Peter shortly and gravely, "is no longer friend of Narnia."
"Yes," said Eustace, "and whenever you've tried to get her to come talk about Narnia or do anything about Narnia, she says 'What wonderful memories you have! Fancy you still thinking about all those funny games we used to play when we were children.'"
"Oh, Susan!" said Jill. "She's interested in nothing nowadays except nylons and lipstick and invitations. She always was a jolly sight too keen on being grown-up."
"Grown-up, indeed," said the Lady Polly. "I wish she WOULD grow up. She wasted all her school time wanting to be the age she is now, and she'll waste all the rest of her life trying to stay that age. her whole idea is to race on to the silliest time of one's life as quick as she can and then stop there as long as she can."
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Unfortunately, Susan grew up to become a woman that very many women are becoming. Look no further than Hollywood to see that. Women are trying to stay young forever and in the end they are miserable. I think the shock of losing her entire family may have caused Susan to reevaluate her life and her ambitions. you know, reaise a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. Experiences and lessons learned in childhood are not easily to forget.
 
nylons and invitations

all they basically say in the last book was that she lost her faith...i like to think she got her faith back and returned to narnia personally. :p
 
jillthevaliant said:
Does it actually talk about the lipstick and stuff? See, I just don't remember this stuff!

And also, I too find it odd that people would suggest that Susan began having sex, not only because of the absurdity of the notion, but also because that just did not happen back in the 1940's in England. A 16-ish free girl that was not married would not be doing that kind of stuff. And I don't think that Lewis would be able to even say that about Susan, no matter how far she might have wandered from grace.
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No offense, Jill, but sex is unfortunately one of the constants of time. During WWII, sexuality was changing, and saw many young girls falling in "love" w/ soldiers stationed in their country, etc. The 40s weren't puritanical, no matter what the ignorant say. I also think that what POTW meant is that at that time, "lipstick and nylons" had sexual connotations, ie a girl trying to make herself desirable to a man. Nylons were usually a "must" to be properly dressed, but add lipstick, which, yes, was common, and not always sexual, but it changes the way it sounds. Sex, extra and pre-marital, has been in history throughout time. Cleopatra? Mata Hari? Jezebel?
I also don't think POTW or CS Lewis was implying that she was engaging in sexual activities, but rather her focus changed from Aslan (Christ), True Love, as in between families, friends, and husbands/wives, and mercy, etc, changed to materialism, looks, the superficial. Hints are all throughout the books that Lewis disliked greatly what was going on in the world at that time.
The filthy London, the clean, old-fashioned in a good way Narnia, the evil Charn, "Progress has a name where we come from: going bad" in VDT, Experiment House, Edmund's bad school in LWW, Eustace's troubles, Professor Kirke's school statements, the "proper" stories/books statements....they are EVERYWHERE. Lewis was trying to make a point.
Poor Susan, who was led astray. Pray for her and all others like her........
Just thought I'd clarify some things. :)
 
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PrinceOfTheWest said:
Needless to say, in our sex-obsessed culture, I saw many blind modern fools interpret this as Lewis opposing sex. "Susan discovered sex, and fell from grace! She couldn't enter Narnia because she begain expressing her sexual identity!" (You wouldn't believe how many fools I read who thought that.)
Click to expand...

What! O my...:eek:
 
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