The Blue Fire

Peepiceek

Peepiceek

Well-known member
Ok, so what is the blue fire and how does it work? And if it can be used to call up the White Witch so easily, why hadn't it ever been used before?

The film implies that it requires human blood to work (though this doesn't have any basis in the book). Could that provide an explanation?

Any thoughts?

Peeps
 
Fire is a handy, obvious metaphor for magic. Recall Gandalf's "secret fire" versus the Balrog's "dark fire." I suspect that Mister Lewis, who was a little hasty in some of his concept-building, simply tossed in "blue fire" as a term that _sounded_ magical. He certainly was not trying to convince any readers that he was _teaching_ them how to do any "real" magic.
 
That much is a given. I'm just wondering why the hag and werewolf had not been able to summon up the White Witch earlier, if that was what they wanted to do. Why did they need Caspian in order to achieve it?

Peeps
 
I don't believe they were _ever_ able to revive the _actual_ Jadis. If Jadis could return after Almighty God (Aslan) killed her, it would cast doubt on His omnipotence. All the Hag and Werewolf could do would be to conjure something that would _seem_ to be Jadis -- like Shift, later, with his fake Aslan. The Hag would then be able to produce at least a few "special effects" which would appear to originate from "Jadis." And this would suffice, in order for them and others like them to regain long-lost power and privilege.

As for the timing: I'd say that the Hag and Werewolf needed to choose a time when the Narnians were desperate for _anything_ that might help them. Until things were desperate, anyone _believing_ that the real Jadis could be brought back would not easily agree that it was an _improvement_ to have her around again.
 
Interesting... I hadn't thought of that. I assumed from the text that, had Peter and the others not burst in at that moment, they might well have succeeded in bringing the White Witch back.

Peeps
 
I don't believe they were _ever_ able to revive the _actual_ Jadis.
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You stole the words out of my mouth Copperfox. As to what exactly the blue fire would have been or how it worked one can only guess. The movie really messed this up, especially when Jadis "broke ice" and slipped her arm through whatever gooey plasma she was suspended in in goofy animatronic motion. The melodramatic slow motion slaughter that followed didn't help things either, though that part was true to the book minus the battle music.

The only way Jadis could be called up would be if Aslan allowed it and that simply makes no sense whatsoever to me. I'm reminded of something in the Old Testament with Saul, though I can't remember who did the calling and who wanted to call up whom but simply remember reading the side note explaining the caller merely furnished the occasion and the entire thing (in terms of likelihood, etc.) was entirely in the hands of God. Does anyone know what I'm referring to? My memory on it is vague at best.
 
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Probably 1 Samuel 28 and the witch of Endor is what you're referring to. But in that story they were able to call Samuel up.

I actually liked how the film did the Jadis thing... and needing human blood to make it work gave a reason why they couldn't just to it any time. Made more sense than the book (dare I say it??)

Anyway, the hag said that 'you can always get witches back'. Was she mistaken? It sounds to me from the book like they knew what to do and how to do it, and it would have worked. I just don't quite get why.

Peeps
 
At best it's a debatable possibility. But it was a clear departure from the book in my opinion. Can we really take a hag's statement at face value? Were it even a possibility, surely there is an even deeper magic that would quickly (if not immediately) work against it. Furthermore the fact that all of this takes place at the Stone Table paints a dangerous analogy. Wouldn't it be like saying Satan were able to come back to whatever state/power he had before the Crucifixion and Resurrection, if only somebody correctly performed a ritual at the foot of the Cross?
 
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I thought that they might be able to get her back, but only a shadow of her, if you get my meaning. She might be able to advise, even fight a little, but have little or no power.
 
The ancient prophecy said that when Cair Paravel's four thrones were filled with 2 sons of Adam and two daughters of Eve, it would not only be the end of the White Witch's reign, but also of her life. Period. So I agree that whatever the hag and werewolf were hoping to call up, it would not have been Jadis, although it probably would have been something vile.
 
Whether Jadis or someone or something else, she or it would most certainly have been thoroughly evil!

Peepiceek said:
Interesting... I hadn't thought of that. I assumed from the text that, had Peter and the others not burst in at that moment, they might well have succeeded in bringing the White Witch back. Peeps
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I assumed so too, after all the hag confidently asserted, "Whoever heard of a witch who really died? You can always bring them back!" This suggested to me that the knowledge to perform such dark magic had been handed down by subsequent generations of Jadis's supporters. It was quite clear that Nikabrik and the werewolf were also not only aware of such magic, but believed it to be possible. In the film the reference to the necessity for blood from a Son of Adam explains why it had not been done before.

Peepiceek said:
Probably 1 Samuel 28 and the witch of Endor is what you're referring to. But in that story they were able to call Samuel up.
Peeps
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This is something I cannot understand. How could someone as questionable as the witch of Endor call up a holy prophet like Samuel?
 
This is something I cannot understand. How could someone as questionable as the witch of Endor call up a holy prophet like Samuel?
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She didn't. She merely furnished the occasion. She doesn't have that power only God does. That, by the way, is entirely the explanation of the footnote I was referring to in my Bible although it is also my viewpoint.
 
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