The Love of Villians...

Sven-El

Sven-El

Well-known member
Ths may be something that gets borderline philosophic and it does the mods can move it.

Any rate I work at a movie store and when a good number of the young angst ridden teens come in one of he most common thing they look for is "Joker merchandise" If they are even shown Batman they go" No, I don't want Batman, I want Joker."

So it got me wondering, why is it in our culture we love villians so much? Even if you are not an angst ridden teen there is stil lsomething "fun" about the bad guys ( except if the bad gu is Hitler, Stalin or any other historical bad guy.) What is it about them that makes them so"appealing"? ( me, I've always loved the hero).
 
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Early in the history of James Bond movies, when the _relatively_ immoral behavior of Bond was enough to get him called an "anti-hero" in that more innocent era, a writer for Esquire Magazine remarked, "You don't want to _meet_ Bond; you want to _be_ Bond."

To the extent that James Bond was bad, and to the much greater extent that characters admired now are certainly bad, they are admired as wish-fulfillment: "I wish I could be so tough and cool and successful, and have the chicks digging me, and not have to answer for anything I did." The appeal of the Conan the Barbarian stories, when they first appeared before World War Two, had exactly the same dishonorable motivation.

All this admiration for selfish, malicious, wicked characters would _evaporate_ in a heartbeat from the minds of almost all admirers of imaginary villains, if they suddenly found themselves being ACTUALLY assaulted by ACTUAL criminals with the _exact_ same immoral character as those "cool" movie villains.
 
Let me add that I myself have played villains in plays, and when I have the part I try to do it well. Only, my idea of doing it well is NOT to make anyone think that evil is cool--rather, to make the audience WANT me to LOSE in the end.
 
I have been wondering the exact same thing.
It's kind of disturbing.
Like, on facebook and stuff there aren't any Batman bumper stickers or anything not one. All I see is The Joker...
 
A possible explanation for this love of villains is that the people that are cast as them do such a great job of performing that character that people want that villain's merchandise.
 
no but it's more than that.
people enjoy watching the villians more than the heroes. they enjoy watching evil it's more interesting
 
Usually in movies, the filmmakers like to give the audience a complete villain. They want to make the villain a character to root against while at the same time, entertaining. At times, the villain can get so entertaining in trying to thwart the good guys that people admire him for being able to do what he is doing. Sometimes, the villain is more entertaining than the hero. When that happens, as it apparently did in "The Dark Knight", the fans flock to see the villain (mind you, the death of Heath Ledger and the press that touted this role as his best did help).

Here, in the LWW poll of favorite character, Jadis has as many votes (12--at 4.38%) as Tumnus does, the character who violated the law just to make sure Lucy was safe and was severely punished for doing so.

Of course, sometimes the appeal of the villain is due to his recurrence such as in horror film series like "Nightmare on Elm Street", "Friday the 13th", or "Halloween". In those cases, the villains are naturally going to be popular while at the same time, we are also watching to see how they end up getting killed again.

MrBob
 
Sven-El said:
So it got me wondering, why is it in our culture we love villians so much? Even if you are not an angst ridden teen there is stil lsomething "fun" about the bad guys ( except if the bad gu is Hitler, Stalin or any other historical bad guy.) What is it about them that makes them so"appealing"? ( me, I've always loved the hero).
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Great question.I've always wondered the same thing..and wondered why I always hate the bad guy and love the good guy.*scratches head*

I think its just our culture tends to admire evil for some reason...maybe they find it more exciting?:confused::eek:
 
There are several reasons and the main one is what Copperfox said, that people want to be tough and cool like the bad guys. As a HUGE fan of Darth Vader and the Emperor from "Star Wars", I can understand this perfectly well - you like the way a baddie look, you like the way others fear him and you like that he is tough and ingenious. I might also add that sometimes the actors who play the villains do a better job. I agree also with the fact that without a villain, there can't be a true hero, and I would say that to make a "cool villain" is easier than to make a "cool hero", because the hero needs more depth.
Yet I can't say that I root for the bad guys. "Star Wars" is a notable exception, because I dislike the Jedi very much and love the character of Anakin Skywalker - but in the "Clone Wars", where he is the good guy, I was, naturally, betting on him.
In the "Dark Knight" I loved Heath's performance, yet it chilled me, especially the first time I watched the movie. And in "Harry Potter", I support Harry and really, really dislike Voldemort.
So really I don't know how to summarize my point. Hope that it isn't too confusing...
 
I understand your post okay, Darth; but it is not quite true that there _can't_ be a hero with no villain. Tremendous heroism, in real life as well as in stories, is often required when confronting impersonal forces of nature and circumstance, as people struggle to save other people from earthquakes, plagues, fires, hurricanes, famine, and so on. Evildoers might happen to be present in these disasters, but their presence would not at all be needed to define the valor of the rescue workers.

On board the sinking "Titanic," a clear division appeared between heroes and villains, one which left NO room for the villains to be admired. Upon learning that the criminally stupid shipping company management (also villains, morally guilty of negligent homicide) had not bothered to equip the liner with enough lifeboats for all the people on board, numerous adult male passengers volunteered to go down with the ship so that women and children could be saved. _These_ were heroes beyond all dispute, and their virtue did not _need_ villains. Villains there were, though: several men who threw on women's clothes to try to smuggle themselves onto the lifeboats.
 
Sven-El said:
So it got me wondering, why is it in our culture we love villians so much? Even if you are not an angst ridden teen there is stil lsomething "fun" about the bad guys ( except if the bad gu is Hitler, Stalin or any other historical bad guy.) What is it about them that makes them so"appealing"? ( me, I've always loved the hero).
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With movies it's often an appreciation for the artist's portrayal of the villain. Heath Ledger's Joker was one of the most incredible things I've ever seen on film, I absolutely love watching Helena Bonham-Carter play Bellatrix (the way she makes Bellatrix just revel in the evil is stunning), and I positively squealed when I found out Jadis was actually going to be in the "Sorcery and Sudden Vengance" scene of Prince Caspian.

In books, I generally don't like the villain nearly as much. In books, I prefer the more ambiguously moraled characters. Snape is possibly the most fascinating character I've ever read, and despite not liking the Inheritance books overall, I really like Murtagh. I like the ambiguous characters because you don't really know until the end where their loyalties lie, so they make me think more than the hero and villain who are obvious.
 
I trust, though, that in real life you would not go out of your way to buy a used car from an "interesting" morally ambiguous dealer.
 
Of course not. Like I said, I enjoy reading about them because they make me think more than a straight villain or hero. There's more to analyze.
 
Copperfox said:
I understand your post okay, Darth; but it is not quite true that there _can't_ be a hero with no villain. Tremendous heroism, in real life as well as in stories, is often required when confronting impersonal forces of nature and circumstance, as people struggle to save other people from earthquakes, plagues, fires, hurricanes, famine, and so on. Evildoers might happen to be present in these disasters, but their presence would not at all be needed to define the valor of the rescue workers.

On board the sinking "Titanic," a clear division appeared between heroes and villains, one which left NO room for the villains to be admired. Upon learning that the criminally stupid shipping company management (also villains, morally guilty of negligent homicide) had not bothered to equip the liner with enough lifeboats for all the people on board, numerous adult male passengers volunteered to go down with the ship so that women and children could be saved. _These_ were heroes beyond all dispute, and their virtue did not _need_ villains. Villains there were, though: several men who threw on women's clothes to try to smuggle themselves onto the lifeboats.
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Yes, you are right. However, there is still an opposing villainous force, which is the catastriophe, although it is impersonale.
By the way, there are some characters, like the druid Allanon from the Shannara stories, or the Batman, who look almost villainous but are really heroic people. Do you like such characters?
 
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