The witch as Satan

W

Wungolioth the Wanderer

New member
Jadis=Satan?

I was reading through the new movie forum and someone had made the statement that Jadis was supposed to actually allegorically represent Satan. For me, and my understanding of the Christ allegory, I've always equated Jadis with the ruling power in the time of Christ, which would be the Roman Empire, and Cair Paravel basically representing the rise of power to the Vatican in Rome. There's also the irony of Christians having been thrown to the lions by Romans, and Jadis(Roman Empire) being thrown to the LION. So is there anyone a bit more schooled in C.S. Lewis' interpretation of these characters and themes that could clear this up?
 
I would say that Jadis does represent Satan. She way too much like him. Tempting Digory to eat an apple: I mean, come on?! She also seduces Edmund, and , if this is still her, transforms into a serpent in The Silver Chair. C. S. Lewis might as well say 'hint hint'.
Not to be rude, but the proof is everywhere in his books.
 
i don't think so. i just think she's a powerful force on the influence of Satan. Satan can be defeated, but he is never destroyed. he is always there, tempting us to do evil things. Jadis, however, is destroyed, and only comes back through tales of the old days.
 
Well then, explain the Lady of the Green Kirtle? How do you know thats not her? Aslan supposedly killed her( maybe he sent or "damned" her to the Underworld?) In Prince Caspian that hag says that she is still living.
 
Last edited:
Seems like we discussed this in another thread.

Based on what the hag says, I think the spirit of Jadis, or the spirit of evil, doesn't die, and in each book, it comes back in a new form. I think you could call it Satan -- Aslan/Jesus appears in Narnia, so why not Satan/Jadis?

In Prince Caspian and Voyage of the Dawn Treader, there is no one devil person, but maybe that is because the witch's evil spirit has not had time to re-form in a person since her vanquishing in LWW? She isn't particularly crushed in those books, so she is able to reform and parade about as the lady in the green kyrtle in Silver Chair.

Like the way Sauron in LOTR has been forming as a spirit power for centuries, and is just about to take physical form if he can just get the ring ...
 
Last edited:
But even when Satan was defeated on the third day, there was still temptation while Jesus was on Earth. If there wasn't, then it would have been mentioned don't you think? Jadis goes away, and doesn't return until SC, which means she was not making evil.

My point? Satan is always there. Jadis dissapers. Jadis isn't even in LB, where (in my opinion) the most evil is present (an ape forcing a donkey to pretend he's Aslan) is she was to represent Satan, then she surally would have been in LB, and she wouldn't disapper and come back
 
HB666,

Your argument form the temptation falls on its own citation: "and Satan departed from him for while."

Jadis is a created being, grreat in her own sphere, but devoted to self-will. She certainly is a Lucifer symbol. But there need not be 100% identification or resemblence, now, need there?
 
Actually, I always thought Tash was sort of Satan's avatar in the books. Near the end of TLB, he comes and brings death to whatever he touches, IE the wilting plants. He basically comes to take the ones who refuse to believe back to "Hell" with him, or wherever it was he came from.

As much as the White Witch enticed Edmund to do evil, she herself was tempted. It's very possible that she wasn't always bad, and maybe it was jealousy towards her sister and a desire for power that made her seek out things like the "Deplorable Word" and such. She was always strong, maybe because of her background of Jinn and Giantess, but I think that her power increased from eating the apple. It gave her immortality, that's known...But it could have also strengthened her magic.

In my opinion, the Hag and the Werewolf were talking about having a seance *not sure how to spell that* to bring back the witch, but whether it would have worked or not is beyond me.

I don't think the Lady of the Green Kirtle was the White Witch...If one woman could have found the garden with the apples, couldn't another? I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's one possibility. One other idea, since there are all kinds of creatures in that world, is that she might have been a Naga. From what I read about them, they're half human and half snake, and depending on the legend, they possess special powers.
 
In the interest of staying focused, I present:
Clarification
by Euphrates

Jadis goes away, and doesn't return until SC, which means she was not making evil.
Click to expand...
That conclusion doesn't follow. How does this mean "she was not making evil"? Also, who's to say that she makes evil at all? Doesn't she just use evil, or symbolize evil?
Satan is always there. Jadis dissapers.
Click to expand...
Satan also disappears in Revelation 20, for 1,000 years.

Please understand that there is no direct symbol for Satan in the CoN. The Chronicles were never meant to be a perfect allegory. So it is best to look at the symbols on a book-by-book basis. The role of Jadis in LWW represents Satan.

Consider this, Lucifer must have been tempted before his "fall". Based on this, temptation (and/or evil) existed before Satan/Lucifer. I'm not sure about this, but it seems correct to say that Satan is not the creator/source of evil, but merely its "leader". In the same way, evil can exist in the Chronicles without Jadis, Tash, etc. being present.

If one woman could have found the garden with the apples, couldn't another?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. It's been a while since I read MN, but I'm pretty sure the garden gets closed up forever or destroyed somewhere towards the end.

I always thought Tash was sort of Satan's avatar in the books.
Click to expand...
Be careful with that. There was a person (Emeth? or something) that worshiped Tash but was saved by Aslan, or something like that. If Tash is to symbolize Satan, do we want to accept that some worshipers of Satan will make it to heaven?
________
medical marijuana doctor
 
Last edited:
I just wanted to thank everyone for their spirited discussion of this subject. To answer one person's question, I would take no offense at being corrected on this matter, or even having a disagreement about the interpretation of one or another aspect of the book(s). This all makes for an interesting discussion, which is why I posted this here. I definitely have to plead ignorance here because I can only recall reading LWW for sure, although it's been a very long time and I do know I owned all the books at one time, so I may have forgotten. I plan on reading them long before the first movie comes out, just getting through some other reading first, and I have to re-acquire many of the books.

Euphrates said:
Be careful with that. There was a person (Emeth? or something) that worshiped Tash but was saved by Aslan, or something like that. If Tash is to symbolize Satan, do we want to accept that some worshipers of Satan will make it to heaven?
Click to expand...

From a Christian standpoint, couldn't a worshipper of Satan be saved, and if they did confess all their sins and make penance, go to heaven?
 
Wungolioth the Wanderer said:
From a Christian standpoint, couldn't a worshipper of Satan be saved, and if they did confess all their sins and make penance, go to heaven?
Click to expand...
We have discussed this over in the "Problems in Lewis' Theology Thread," as to whether Emeth's appearance in the "New Narnia" meant he had come to heaven despite being a follower of evil Tash, because of the sincerity of his faith.

Of course in the Christian theology, anyone can be saved, as long as he confesses Christ as Savior and seeks forgiveness of sins.

But whether that can happen AFTER death, if say, a sincere Satanist will have a chance after death to realize he was really seeking Jesus and come to Christ? Most Christians seem to think not -- so what was a Tash-worshiping Calormene doing in the New Narnia at the end of TLB? The best explanation I like is that he didn't die when he was thrown through the stable door, but rather had his eyes opened by Aslan the Savior, and at that point pledged allegiance to the one true God.
 
I don't think he died either- if he had, he would not have been able to make a conscious decision to follow Christ/Aslan, which I think is what he did because he was in the New Narnia/Heaven after all.
 
Here's the thing, a worshiper of Satan cannot be saved according to Christian theology. One cannot worship Satan and simultaneously believe Christ is his/her Savior & repent of sins. It is possible for someone to have formerly been a worshiper of Satan, and still be saved, I think. But this is not the case with Emeth. He worshiped something he called "Tash", but in the book it says that he was actually worshiping Aslan under a different name. The importance of this is simply that the proper name of the diety one worships is of no significance.

The only difference between Emeth and the people who worshiped Aslan was that Emeth didn't call him "Aslan". This is not true for worshipers of Satan.
________
weed vaporizer
 
Last edited:
But this cannot be right according to Christian theology. If you sincerely worship your deity, say Allah, do you think then that Christ will welcome you for that sincere belief because you were just calling Him by the wrong name?

And of course, I meant if a Satan worshipper should accept Christ as Savior -- and worship Christ alone -- then he would be saved. Anyone would be.
 
I meant if a Satan worshipper should accept Christ as Savior -- and worship Christ alone -- then he would be saved. Anyone would be.
Click to expand...
Of course, you're right.

Let's say that I worship "Froo-froo" and I believe Froo-froo sent a human manifestation of himself, "Yak-yak", to Earth. And let's say I also believe that "Yak-yak" died and rose again to forgive me of my sins, so that I must confess my sins and etc... In this scenario my beliefs are identical with the Christian beliefs, with the exception of the names I ascribe to the diety/dieties. It is the same, I think, with Emeth. He was merely calling Aslan, "Tash". That's not significant.

It is different when you put it in terms of "Allah" (the Muslim God) and "Yaweh" (the Christian God). The names are not important, it's the representation of the name that matters. In philosophy of language terms, the word in the sentence is not as important as the propositional constituent that is represented by the word. "Allah" is the Arabic word for "God". Christians who speak Arabic call God, "Allah". It is typical for Muslims who speak English to call their deity "God", just like Christians do. Clearly the name you ascribe to God is not as important as the meaning behind the name.
________
herbalaire vaporizer
 
Last edited:
Ermm. In the Last Battle, remember that Calorman who worshiped Tash? He is "saved" by Aslan, despite the fact that he worships a demon of sorts. For he does so in a way of great reverence, and believes what he is doing is right. As a Christian I believe that any man who truly and honestly believes that what he is doing is right, not what makes him happy, but which is right in his eyes no matter what his religion is will go to heaven like any Christian. But then, not all Christians necessarily go to heaven. Mortal sin still exists for them to and if they commit it they must be truly sorry.
Now Satan worshipers on the other hand..well, lets hope they don't truly know what they're doing. Though, some of them may. And may God save there souls!!
 
Last edited:
Back
Top