underwear
- Thread starter TimmyofOz
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I don't know a great deal about Mormon faith so I coudn't comment on their choice of underwear (!), but I think Lewis was referring to the fact, or asummed fact that Mr & Mrs Scrubb were a ne breed of ultra-liberal, new age living types- not allowing their sone to call them mother and father, sending him to a progressive shcool which seemed to have a lack of rules and order, I should imagine that they had underwear made out of hessian, or someother highyl uncomfortable material- in keeping with their sober nature?
Yes - wasnt this just after the time when woman's liberty had come about and they were finally allowed to ditch the corsets etc.... I think for a while after it was still considered a bit 'naughty' to be 'free' in the underwear sense. Remember us Brits are very reserved creatures...
Dear me!!! So everything the teach you in history lessons is a lie???? Well I never....... I gave it up three years ago though so i cant complain!
Mormons are in fact wearers of special underwear per religious instruction, but that does not enter here into Narnia.
I think Lewis is making the point that the modernity and conformism of Eustace's parents was thorough-going. And I think he meant rather the opposite of liberation! Rather the Scrubbs were so determinedly and ridgidly modern that they wore underclothes to fit them to the social advertised ideal of modern human.
Given the behaviours of Eustace, I think they were wearing woolen undies with metal stays! Very disagreeable!
I think Lewis is making the point that the modernity and conformism of Eustace's parents was thorough-going. And I think he meant rather the opposite of liberation! Rather the Scrubbs were so determinedly and ridgidly modern that they wore underclothes to fit them to the social advertised ideal of modern human.
Given the behaviours of Eustace, I think they were wearing woolen undies with metal stays! Very disagreeable!
I see what you mean there Inked, but when I mentioned 'liberal' it was to the fact that at the time children of the middle class, which we assume (well I do ) the Pevensies and family were- to send ones child to a mixed school would have been considered very 'liberal' - trying to move towards a new way of thinking, moving away from the accepted views?
roseymole,
I understand what I think you are trying to say: the Scrubbs were not into the standard, old-fashioned mode of schooling or behaving in terms of family and hierarchal relationships. In that time the word "liberal" would have meant more likely generous (a liberal giver to the poor) or broad (his political views were not limited to his class).
Our usage of the word certainly would not have been applicable if by liberal you mean "not politically conservative" or a political proponent of causes that were avant guarde.
I think Lewis would have used "modern" to mean values in those areas of family and society which deliberately sought to antagonize the ones derived from the class and hierarchal or status concept of society. He says very much that in his address on taking up the Cambridge position. And very similarly criticizes the "modern sensibility" in education in THE ABOLITON OF MAN.
So, I think Eustace and the Scrubbs are pictures of the results of being thoroughly "modern" in these matters. And not very pleasant do they act or seem! Eustace is not a nerd! He is a nasty little boy who has none of the benefits of good rearing, good manners, good education, or good literature. He is a product of his times and parents' choices. But, as we know, even that is not an intractable barrier to becoming a whole person and true Narnian! (Which I rather take was Mr Lewis' point!)
I understand what I think you are trying to say: the Scrubbs were not into the standard, old-fashioned mode of schooling or behaving in terms of family and hierarchal relationships. In that time the word "liberal" would have meant more likely generous (a liberal giver to the poor) or broad (his political views were not limited to his class).
Our usage of the word certainly would not have been applicable if by liberal you mean "not politically conservative" or a political proponent of causes that were avant guarde.
I think Lewis would have used "modern" to mean values in those areas of family and society which deliberately sought to antagonize the ones derived from the class and hierarchal or status concept of society. He says very much that in his address on taking up the Cambridge position. And very similarly criticizes the "modern sensibility" in education in THE ABOLITON OF MAN.
So, I think Eustace and the Scrubbs are pictures of the results of being thoroughly "modern" in these matters. And not very pleasant do they act or seem! Eustace is not a nerd! He is a nasty little boy who has none of the benefits of good rearing, good manners, good education, or good literature. He is a product of his times and parents' choices. But, as we know, even that is not an intractable barrier to becoming a whole person and true Narnian! (Which I rather take was Mr Lewis' point!)
ok, this is ridiculous. yes he was trying to be true and put in real facts, but his target audience from wat i gather is young readers, and they would find the consept of whereing "modern" underwear funny. Thus, the child from the beginning of the book wants to keep reading the purpose wasn't to be political (though it helped him in the prosess) it was to catch the kid's attention early in the book
TimmyofOz
Well-known member
confused still
I know that Lewis talks about them being modern. But were the liberals of the English 1950's teatolders and against art. And I still don't understand the underwear. Maybe the Morman idea is a stretch but I still don't understand Eustace's parents. Scrubb is one of my favorite characters in the chronicles. I also always saw Eustace's parents becoming Queen Susan's guardians after the death of her parents and family in the train accident. Always wanted to write a story about Susan being redeemed. Isn't there a saying that "once a Narnian King and Queen always a Narnian King and Queen".
I know that Lewis talks about them being modern. But were the liberals of the English 1950's teatolders and against art. And I still don't understand the underwear. Maybe the Morman idea is a stretch but I still don't understand Eustace's parents. Scrubb is one of my favorite characters in the chronicles. I also always saw Eustace's parents becoming Queen Susan's guardians after the death of her parents and family in the train accident. Always wanted to write a story about Susan being redeemed. Isn't there a saying that "once a Narnian King and Queen always a Narnian King and Queen".
ToO,
I believe Mr Lewis was employing irony in his descriptions of the Scrubbs. They may think themselves modern, hip, with it, the cat's pajamas, cool, and jolly well the best thing since sliced bread, BUT the results of all their refusal of the old order is EUSTACE! Who'd want to be like him before the change? None of us I am sure, but there are persons who think Eustace really the pinnacle of human development. If everyone were like the Scrubbs, what a wonderful world it would be! (according to their way of thinking). They are rather Dursley-ish, don't you think? And who would want to be like that? Or, think of it this way, Eustace is the seed (as are his parents) and Dudley is the final product (as are his parents).
See what I think Mr. Lewis was getting at? I think the Mormon reference a red herring, for there are plenty of people not religious at all who will tell you what you should eat or drink and how much of each because THEY KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU and you cannot be trusted to do it properly. These are known as social planners and engineers, the mavens of fashion, etc. In their rigidity and unbendingness they probably wear back braces to improve their posture (and think everyone else should too, by gum!). Poor Eustace! He had parents like this! Do you think he had ever been swimming in a lake or river or the ocean? I doubt it! Chlorinated pools for him and regimented laps! No splashing or waterfights or horsing around.
And, to make matters worse, Eustace had never had a chance to develop any part of himself except the "scientifically socially correct" side. He had never read of knights and deeds of derring-do, os sacrifice for a cause, of winning a lady's praise! He didn't know one could act other than for oneself always under the guise of "we know what's best for you" and end up in Experiment House.
I like Eustace myself. He gives me hope that any materialist can discover the greater reality than science can describe and quantify, but not explain - the worlds above us and below us - the One in Whom we live and move and have our being (as St Paul described it).
I believe Mr Lewis was employing irony in his descriptions of the Scrubbs. They may think themselves modern, hip, with it, the cat's pajamas, cool, and jolly well the best thing since sliced bread, BUT the results of all their refusal of the old order is EUSTACE! Who'd want to be like him before the change? None of us I am sure, but there are persons who think Eustace really the pinnacle of human development. If everyone were like the Scrubbs, what a wonderful world it would be! (according to their way of thinking). They are rather Dursley-ish, don't you think? And who would want to be like that? Or, think of it this way, Eustace is the seed (as are his parents) and Dudley is the final product (as are his parents).
See what I think Mr. Lewis was getting at? I think the Mormon reference a red herring, for there are plenty of people not religious at all who will tell you what you should eat or drink and how much of each because THEY KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU and you cannot be trusted to do it properly. These are known as social planners and engineers, the mavens of fashion, etc. In their rigidity and unbendingness they probably wear back braces to improve their posture (and think everyone else should too, by gum!). Poor Eustace! He had parents like this! Do you think he had ever been swimming in a lake or river or the ocean? I doubt it! Chlorinated pools for him and regimented laps! No splashing or waterfights or horsing around.
And, to make matters worse, Eustace had never had a chance to develop any part of himself except the "scientifically socially correct" side. He had never read of knights and deeds of derring-do, os sacrifice for a cause, of winning a lady's praise! He didn't know one could act other than for oneself always under the guise of "we know what's best for you" and end up in Experiment House.
I like Eustace myself. He gives me hope that any materialist can discover the greater reality than science can describe and quantify, but not explain - the worlds above us and below us - the One in Whom we live and move and have our being (as St Paul described it).
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i agree with everything you say, inked (as always, good job) i find hope in him as a person who is a prime example of how anyone can change their behavior, but not their personality. Eustance will always have that cruelness inside him no matter what happens (he still got agitated over a game of chess) but he still tried his best to be a good perosn, and i think thats wat CSL was trying to tell us, to be as good people as we can
) i find hope in him as a person who is a prime example of how anyone can change their behavior, but not their personality. Eustance will always have that cruelness inside him no matter what happens (he still got agitated over a game of chess) but he still tried his best to be a good perosn, and i think thats wat CSL was trying to tell us, to be as good people as we can
lol, i wish i had seen this earlier. Quite the funny thread when you think about it. I never even really thought much of that comment by lewis about his parents and underwear. So interesting indeeed.
tg
tg