Adam's FIRST Wife?

PrinceOfTheWest said:
Oops, got carried away there. Wonder what Charn Tim would think of this?
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Ha, ha! Ya!

That story is really interesting! I think you should turn it in to get it published as the "lost part of the story about Lilith" :D !
 
Let me see what I can throw together. I've already posted something over in the Professor's Notebook, but nobody seemed to notice.
 
PrinceOfTheWest said:
That's the version that crops up in Jewish legends, but every serious Scripture scholar I've ever heard on that issue interpreted it to mean the "sons of God" were the the men descended from Shem, while the "daughters of men" where from the line of Cain, and the resulting "giants" were men who were political "giants", in the sense that we'd use the term "strongman" or "warlord". Nimrod was one of these, and according to legend the motivator behind the Tower of Babel. The "giants" were the first to wage war and to enslave their fellow men.

However, I do find it interesting that every single legendary tradition on earth has a giant component. Very interesting.
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I always favored the spiritual warfare idea of the "sons of God". To make them just the decendeds of Shem is a recent idea out of the reformation to play down angels. I'm not Catholic POW, like you are, but there are interceding angels for good and for bad.
 
Oh, certainly, certainly (we're the "guardian angels" guys, remember?) The scholars I heard make that point weren't trying to play down supernatural beings, but trying to explain that particular Scripture in that context.
 
All through earlier Jewish writings (Book of Enoch and Josephus) the Sons of God are believed to be angels. This idea of just descendents of Shem, like I said, is a modern idea. Going with the Traditional idea seems prudent in that that is how it was read by people closer to that age. :)
 
Very interesting quotation from Wikipedia, masterofmonks - I've alwayed enjoyed mythology, Christianity being a rich source (anyone who has read Neil Gaiman's The Sandman knows how effectively they can be used in a fantastical narrative, and obviously Narnia utilises some of that too).

If Lewis heard the full story from MacDonald, and would therefore (I'm assuming) have been aware of this:

masterofmonks said:
Lilith promptly uttered the name of God, took to the air, and left the Garden, settling on the Red Sea coast. As a side note, this places Lilith in a unique position, for she left the Garden of her own accord and before the Fall of Man, and so is untouched by the Tree of Knowledge. However, she also knows the true name of God, which makes her even more powerful.
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Would that explain the 'Deplorable Word'? That in fact the family of Jadis knew (or rather, used to know then hid, according to the quotation below) the 'true name' of god from their ancestral mother, and could employ it in horrendously destructive spells? I know there is discussion of it elsewhere on this forum - comparison to atomic bombs and the like - but if Lewis knew the story of Lilith quoted above, then might it be based around that?

The Magician's Nephew said:
"...She even knew that I had the secret of the Deplorable Word. Did she think - she was always a weakling - that I would not use it?

"What was it?" said Digory.

"That was the secret of secrets," said the Queen Jadis. "It had long been known to the great kings of our race that there was a word which, if spoken with the proper ceremonies, would destroy all living things except the one who spoke it. But the ancient kings were weak and soft-hearted and bound themselves and all who should come after them with great oaths never even to seek after the knowledge of that word. But I learned it in a secret place and paid a terrible price to learn it. I did not use it until she forced me to it. I fought to overcome her by every other means..."
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That's right. Lilith was Adam's first wife.
I have a big text about Lilith, but it is on serbish and I can't translation that on english.
 
wait a second one question...
1.Where does it say in the Bible that Adam had a "first wife"? because that verse that simply says "He created them Male and Female" really doesnt imply to me that there was a first wife. Rather it says to me "this was put here before they tell you about the creation of Eve because that is how God wanted it and why He wanted it that way is not importent or He would have told us!" Also there is another verse that says "There was no suitable mate for Adam found in the Garden" so are you saying that that took place after Lilith took off? And if Lilith left before the knowledge of good and evil fruit was eaten she would have been innocences itself, so you cant call her evil!It wasnt until after the Fruit was eaten that they knew what wrong was and that there was sin in the world, so IT would be sin for Lilith to have been defyint of her husband, the Bible commands women to defer to their husbands, and that couldnt have been because there was no Sin till after Eve and Adam ate the fruit! And God would have Kicked Lilith out of the Garden if she had eaten the fruit herself. He couldnt allow Sin in his perfectiess Garden!

I think in this case you guys are reading waaay too deep into Lewis' world.

Sorry I cant fine my moms Bible, or else I would put refernces up!
 
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It doesn't say that in the Bible. That's Jewish and Arabic legend, and justified by the fact that there are two references to the creation of man and woman. Don't worry, Lewis meant nothing by it.
 
The reference in question is from a book of Jewish mysticism called the Kabbalah.

I don't want what I am going to say to be misconstrued in any way as bigotry, for it is not. But there are certain religious traditions that epitomize man's quest to leave no loose ends. These traditions collect scholarly studies, church father rulings, and committee decisions together into quasi-scriptural libraries upon whose weight wars have been waged and families bitterly divided.

While I venerate some of the great thinkers of the past, I believe there will always be a gap between the least of God's revealed wisdom and height of mankind's greatest contemplations. I honor that gap as one of God's imperfect children forgiven and nurtured by his perfect love. I also believe that part of our spiritual journey is not just absorbing truth, but the quest for truth itself. It is the struggle which defines us. I do not believe that God intended anyone to have all the facts presented to them by another. We were meant to explore, designed to ask, built and equipped to discover.

The place of the Church Fathers, the great Rabbis, the sages of old, is to inspire us with their zeal, touch us with their devotion, and when we don't know where to begin with one of life's difficult questions, see what worked for another person in our position. I can not be certain what worked for St. Augustine or Thomas Aquinas would work for me, but I am open to what they say, and I respect them for the diligence and prayer they put into their work.

This said, like many people Jewish and Christian, I give the Kabbalah no credence whatever. We must all make up our own minds on this matter based on our independent observations. I am much more prone to accept Neo Platonic thought than Kabbalistic musings, but that is just me.
 
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Yeah, all the badgers I know are into Kabbalah, for sure. Chakal is probably an outcast among his own kind ... but he is welcome here, regardless of his beliefs.
 
I remember just that Lilith was feminist and she left Adam because he think that woman should be on 2. place, if you understande what I want to say.

Lilith is protector of all womans and feminist.
 
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