Are the Calormenes metaphorical?
- Thread starter Ithilien
- Start date
I think they may represent muslim culture definitely. The architecture, complexion and everything suggests this. I think as a metaphor it can stand for any religion that doesnt trust in Jesus......
Ithilien said:
I think them entering fake(?) Narnia represents the Muslims entering the early Christian lands of Egypt and what not. They come in, confuse the locals, and try to gain control throught the sword.
No offence to any Muslims intended, but through my understanding, that is what happened in the early Muslim days.
Hmmmmmmmmm.... how did the calormenes get there!?!??!?
I don't remember, but yeah i had that feeling as well. I just hoped that this was not going to be a bad thing once they produced this movie.
tg
tg
While there are similarites between Middle Eastern culture and the fictitious Calormenes, I think we need to be careful about reading too much into Lewis' works; especially since Lewis himself stated that one thing he hated was people criticiquing what he wrote and reading all kinds of other meanings into them - meanings which he had never intended.
There might have been an allegorical point that Lewis was trying to make when the Calormenes invaded Narnia, or there might not have been.
The issue in the Last Battle of the Calormene who makes it into "New Narnia" has alsways been something that I had problems with (for those who have been here over a year, you might remember the thread I started regarding that very issue, so I won't get into it here - since some of the other threads have been closed due to "hostilities", I'll try to stay on the good side of the mods, and keep the controversy to a minimum
).
However, I don't think that Lewis was advocating Universalism in LB - in Mere Christianity he makes some very clear statements to the effect that only those who believe in Jesus can be saved - all of the other religions do not lead to the God of Christianity, and hence, can't provide salvation.
There might have been an allegorical point that Lewis was trying to make when the Calormenes invaded Narnia, or there might not have been.
The issue in the Last Battle of the Calormene who makes it into "New Narnia" has alsways been something that I had problems with (for those who have been here over a year, you might remember the thread I started regarding that very issue, so I won't get into it here - since some of the other threads have been closed due to "hostilities", I'll try to stay on the good side of the mods, and keep the controversy to a minimum
). However, I don't think that Lewis was advocating Universalism in LB - in Mere Christianity he makes some very clear statements to the effect that only those who believe in Jesus can be saved - all of the other religions do not lead to the God of Christianity, and hence, can't provide salvation.
GrayCloak
New member
Capstick said:
Very true Chappy, I read once that Lewis was quite scathing of his writing hero George Macdonald in his work Lilith which advocates Universalism. Lewis makes himself quite clear in his books on faith (Mere Christianity being the one that pops to mind, and I belive Screwtape Letters as well) that he belives Christ to be the only route to salvation; it's quite strange that Emeth, the Calormen in question should be found in 'New Narnia'.
Johan 72109
New member
holyboy666 said:
Erm... yes... it did... But I have my doubts that that was what the invasion of Narnia represents, mainly because the Islamic conquests were marked by BOTH sides trying to gain control of territory through the sword, and by massacres and pillaging on BOTH sides of the war. Indeed, one idea (emphasis on idea) of why Islam came about was as a means of uniting the tribes of Southern Saudi Arabia who had been oppressed by the so called Christians of Northern Saudi Arabia, thereby allowing them to turn into a great nation, making an empire that lasted a thousand years. It seems unlikely that C.S Lewis would write about the 'evil' Calormenes attacking the 'good' Narnians as allegory for what was essentially an ordinary war, with heroes and villains on both sides, a war with very little to do with religion beneath the surface of lies and propoganda cast by the leaders of both sides.
Most of the time the Narnia series seems to have closer ties with spiritual matters than historical matters (except, of course, for its allegory of the cross and Jesus' death.)
Welcome, Johan, I don't remember seeing you post before.
I think Lewis had an admiration for things Arabic, which we can see particularly in HHB. The Calormenes come across as grand and courteous with a style of story-telling that is excellent, with beautiful cities, great architecture, handsome people. But sadly, many of the people could not excel, because the Calormene culture oppressed them.
I think in HHB we receive the message that any repressive regime (not just an Islamic one) can hobble the people -- the heroine of HHB was beautiful, spirited, and proved herself heroic, but under the cruel Calormene regime, she would have been consigned to a loveless marriage with an old man for political reasons: one message regimes that devalue women tend to discourage all citizens from reaching their full potential. That is still true today.
I don't think Lewis regarded the Calormenes and worship of Tash as an allegory for Islam -- in part because of the reasons Johan mentions, and also because I am not sure Englishmen of Lewis' age took Islam very seriously. (I could be wrong on that account.)
I think Lewis had an admiration for things Arabic, which we can see particularly in HHB. The Calormenes come across as grand and courteous with a style of story-telling that is excellent, with beautiful cities, great architecture, handsome people. But sadly, many of the people could not excel, because the Calormene culture oppressed them.
I think in HHB we receive the message that any repressive regime (not just an Islamic one) can hobble the people -- the heroine of HHB was beautiful, spirited, and proved herself heroic, but under the cruel Calormene regime, she would have been consigned to a loveless marriage with an old man for political reasons: one message regimes that devalue women tend to discourage all citizens from reaching their full potential. That is still true today.
I don't think Lewis regarded the Calormenes and worship of Tash as an allegory for Islam -- in part because of the reasons Johan mentions, and also because I am not sure Englishmen of Lewis' age took Islam very seriously. (I could be wrong on that account.)
What if we were to look at the Calormenes as representative of governments that are more or less repressive?
The Narnian monarchy reminds me a bit of the British monarchy. There seems to be a great deal of democracy practiced in Narnia as well as religious freedom. Notice that the citizens of Narnia "worship" Aslan in their own way without theocracy in place to dictate dogma, etc.
The Calormenes not only have a very rigid government and strict (controlling) hierarchy, they appear to have both a controlling theocracy that completely supports the overbearing government. We can cite examples of this type of government throughout the world and throughout history without specifically limiting the examples to the Middle East: Asia, Africa, and even Old Europe.
I may be stretching the point a bit, but we notice the theocracy is first introduced into Narnia in the Last Battle. The Ape is supported by the Calormenes.
Tash may represent all things that are not necessarily Anti-Christ in the strictest sense but all things that become stumbling blocks to knowing Christ. Tash could represent such things as power, money, blind dedication to a cause, etc.
I agree that Lewis was not a supporter of Universalism, but at the same time, I don't think he was ready to close the door on human beings who cannot, for one reason or another, come to Christ.
One additional thought: it is rather interesting that being that Aslan is a lion, animals could readily identify with Aslan as being God. If we humans in this world were to start worshipping/following an animal, we would be accused of worshipping/following an idol. The Calormenes "created" a god who would look more or less human, even though it had a vulture's head and four arms. The illustrator Pauline Baynes even gave Tash legs with claws, probably representative of power, terror (a god to be feared), demanding strict obedience or else. I may be getting a bit deep here, but when people act like Calormenes and take on a god to worship, we may then feel that this god is very demanding, overbearing, a slave-driver, et al to the point where we feel "lost."
The Narnian monarchy reminds me a bit of the British monarchy. There seems to be a great deal of democracy practiced in Narnia as well as religious freedom. Notice that the citizens of Narnia "worship" Aslan in their own way without theocracy in place to dictate dogma, etc.
The Calormenes not only have a very rigid government and strict (controlling) hierarchy, they appear to have both a controlling theocracy that completely supports the overbearing government. We can cite examples of this type of government throughout the world and throughout history without specifically limiting the examples to the Middle East: Asia, Africa, and even Old Europe.
I may be stretching the point a bit, but we notice the theocracy is first introduced into Narnia in the Last Battle. The Ape is supported by the Calormenes.
Tash may represent all things that are not necessarily Anti-Christ in the strictest sense but all things that become stumbling blocks to knowing Christ. Tash could represent such things as power, money, blind dedication to a cause, etc.
I agree that Lewis was not a supporter of Universalism, but at the same time, I don't think he was ready to close the door on human beings who cannot, for one reason or another, come to Christ.
One additional thought: it is rather interesting that being that Aslan is a lion, animals could readily identify with Aslan as being God. If we humans in this world were to start worshipping/following an animal, we would be accused of worshipping/following an idol. The Calormenes "created" a god who would look more or less human, even though it had a vulture's head and four arms. The illustrator Pauline Baynes even gave Tash legs with claws, probably representative of power, terror (a god to be feared), demanding strict obedience or else. I may be getting a bit deep here, but when people act like Calormenes and take on a god to worship, we may then feel that this god is very demanding, overbearing, a slave-driver, et al to the point where we feel "lost."
Very deep -- and right, I would think. And you know what? Sometimes people who grow up in Christian homes that are real strict regarding behavior and works that must be done to satisfy God, they feel the same way toward Jesus, or they abandon Him as impossible to please -- when just the opposite is true! He saves by grace and no works of ours are necessary.Wallis said:
Gryphon
New member
the calomorens are based off of the muslims. calomorens worship a god named Tash. if any of you have read the last battle, there is one point in the book where C.S. Lewis explains how Tash and Aslan are two compleatly diffrent people. Like Allah and God are two compleatly diffent people. Muhammed said that an angel of the lord gave him the gospels he preached but in the bible, it says condem any angel that gives you a gospel. besides, demons are fallen angels and i have little doubt in my mind that muhammed did see an angel. the angel, i believe though, was a fallen demon. same goes to mormons.
Hmmm....... however, Tash really existed, whereas Allah does not.... Thus the Calormenes cannot be based on Muslims.
Galatians 1:8 says, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."holyboy666 said:
I agree with WHB that the Calormenes are not supposed to represent Muslims, because as believers, we know there is no other God but YAHWEH, so in our mindset Allah doesn't exist -- but Tash did exist. I think Lewis based the Calormene culture on a sort of Arabian Knights motif because he admired much about the architecture and the mysery of the stories, etc. but did not intend their worship of Tash to be seen as analagous to Islam.