Differences You Actually Want

[jasmine tarkheena]

I know that we all hope for Narnia film or series adaptions to be done right or stay closer to the books. Though there are things in the books that may require some changes. I think that's understandable, because there there some things in the books that probably wouldn't work on screen.

I think what CS Lewis wrote in the books are great, but how can they be accomplished on screen?

I think it will be interesting on how a new LWW adaption will pull off the chapter where Edmund is waking to the White Witch's castle and having these thoughts. The BBC had him disembodied from himself, and have him talking to his conscious. The Walden actually showed him sitting on the White Witch's throne, showing this what he wanted, to be king. Then later, he was in the dungeon, making him realize he has made a wrong choice and seeing the consequences of his actions. So I don't know how a new adaption will pull this off. I know you can't really do a person thinking out loud on screen. Perhaps a way to do it is showing Edmund walking to the Witch's castle, and as he's thinking his thoughts, "Oh yes, I'm going to be king" and also have him feel conflicted. He knows this is wrong, yet he's trying to make up excuses for it.

While the girls won't necessarily need to particpate in battle, I think a change they could do is at least have Susan and Lucy learning how to use their bow and arrow and dagger. It could be a way of showing of that they would know how to use them if they're going to defend themselves when they needed to. I think even Lucy could learn how to use a bow and arrow, because she uses it at the Battle of Anvard in HHB.

While Jill doesn't use a bow and arrow until LB, I think it would be great if she learn how to use it in SC. There even could be a way for her to participate in the fight with the serpent in Underland. It could give her character arch, that she has been bullied, and she has overcome that fear.

Are there any differences you would want for a screen adaption?

 

[MrBob]

The Walden movie of LWW did show Lucy and Susan practicing using their respective weapons with Lucy throwing hers with great accuracy, scoring a bullseye at a target.

Regarding the adaptational changes I would like, first I want to go back and say I disliked the thawing waterfall sequence in LWW. I am fine with the battles in the first two Pevensie entering Narnia books being shown onscreen, but not with Susan becoming Xena in PC. Lucy needs to stay out of the fray as she is just too young, keeping to her nursing position via her cordial.

MrBob

 

[jasmine tarkheena]

Regarding the adaptational changes I would like, first I want to go back and say I disliked the thawing waterfall sequence in LWW.

Oh, the melting river scene. It kind of lost the touch the real scare of the Witch and Father Christmas. In the book, it's all quiet and suspenseful, like, "Is it the witch? Is she going to get them?" Then in the Walden, "Oh, we got to get away! Here comes the wolves! Here comes the waterfall!"

I think sometimes Hollywood has excuse for adding action or chase scenes, especially in the slow moments of the books. Apparently, they think it will make it more exciting. I think we still can have an exciting scene, but it doesn't have to be just action.

I am fine with the battles in the first two Pevensie entering Narnia books being shown onscreen, but not with Susan becoming Xena in PC. Lucy needs to stay out of the fray as she is just too young, keeping to her nursing position via her cordial.

Oh yes. Xena would not be fighting for Susan's character, since she is known as Queen Susan the Gentle. It's even mentioned in HHB that she doesn't like going into battles.

Plus, I think you'll all find this quote from CS Lewis himself helpful:

I was once taken to a see a film version of King Solomon's Mines. Of its many sins--not the least the introduction of a totally irrelevant young woman in shorts who accompanied the three adventurers wherever they went--only one here concerns us. At the end of Haggard's book, as everyone remembers, the heroes are awaiting death entombed in a rock chamber and surrounded by the mummified kings of that land. The maker of the film version, however, apparently thought this tame. He substituted a subterranean volcanic eruption, and then went one better by adding an earthquake. Perhaps we should not blame him. Perhaps the scene in the original was not 'cinematic' and the man was right, by the canons of his own art, in altering it. But it would have been better not to have chosen in the first place a story which could be adapted to the screen only by being ruined. Ruined, at least, for me.

Plus, we could even share some examples of changes in Walden trilogy we've liked or didn't liked.

 

[tirian_son_of_erlian]

I like that quote. Even though I have not read or seen King Solomon's Mines, what Lewis is saying makes perfect sense. Tell the story as it is written.

I liked that the BBC version accurately portrayed Edmund facing himself/his conscience. He had decided to ignore the overwhelming evidence in front of him for a foolhardy mission, and by doing so placed himself in grave danger. I agree the Walden version made a good point too by connecting his choices with their consequences. And when he meets Mr. Tumnus there, he perhaps finally admits to himself just how awful he's been to his younger sister.

I'm pretty much a purist when it comes to the Chronicles, so I can't think of many changes that I would welcome. I do see the girls as already very active in each of the stories. Lucy, Susan and Jill accompany Alsan in a very personal way. In The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, Lucy and Susan remain by the Stone Table before, during and after Aslan's sacrifice. In Prince Caspian, it's important that we see them traversing the countryside of Narnia; they accompany Aslan as he liberates those captive to Telmarine society; this ought to be juxtaposed with the High King Peter leading the fight for Caspian's kingship.

I see Jill as ready and willing for the long journey in The Silver Chair. It's important that the fight against the green serpent belong principally to Rillian, though I agree there are ways to develop Jill's fighting spirit so that by the time of The Last Battle she seems naturally prepared to take up the bow and arrow. I would say that I see the role of the girls in the Chronicles as somewhat analogous to that of Mary, Mary Magdalene and the other women close to Christ in the television series The Chosen. While they are not part of Christ's inner circle (Peter, John and James the Greater) nor even one of his other twelve apostles, they are always close to his heart and mission in a meaningful way that only women can be.

I don't like the waterfall/melting river segment either. Supposedly it is supposed to add excitement and action. But does it take away from the story? The thing is, in the Walden Version, the unfolding of Spring felt a bit passed over by comparison. I can see why they did it, being that it does tie into Spring. However, I think what really soured it for me was all the bickering. Yes, there should be some conflict established early on. But here Edmund is not even present and yet Peter and Susan are at each other's throats again, with Susan vehemently questioning Peter's decisions on how to safely lead his siblings.

Also, at the beginning of the Walden adaptation, there is huge tension between Edmund and the rest of his family. I get that they were trying to set up a conflict. But if you're family's being bombed out of its home, would you really be hurling insults at one another? The London Blitz represents one sentence that was expanded to about five minutes of screentime, followed by a beautiful train ride. Overall it worked well. I guess my point is that the conflict amongst the Pevensies doesn't need to be exaggerated the way it was.

So, I guess I am still hard-pressed to come up with changes I would like. I know it's hard to include everything in the stories on screen. I would say I can definitely appreciate certain added elements that complement the story without fundamentally changing it, but great caution and respect for the source material is paramount!

 

[jasmine tarkheena]

Very good points. Although I am not purist myself, I care as much about the books and how it should be treated. Though I do understand some things will have to require some changes.

A change I didn't like in the Walden was the Green Mist in VDT. I kind of understand why they wanted to add a villain, because it's almost traditional. That's what people expect to see. It was not even a good villain! It's almost kind of a shame, because Narnia has been known to have some great villains, like the White Witch, Miraz, Rishda. I personally think that Rishda is a superior villain than Shift in LB, but that's kind of besides the point. Then, of course, it was created to be a set up for the Lady of the Green Kirtle in SC. What makes VDT stand out from the other books that it doesn't have a villain. I actually kind of like the idea, because it shows that not ever story has to have a villain. Adding one kind of ruins it. It would almost be like if a screen adaption of The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde adds a villain. It would only ruin the complexity of the main character with a dual personality. So I'm like, "Okay, I understand what you're doing, but why are you doing it?"

 

[EveningStar]

Jasmine, there were plenty of villains in Voyage of the Dawn Treader, but the producers were not willing to dig into that. The King's greed for the gold, Eustace's lust for independence, etc etc. Each island or situation tested a different area of character, and only those worthy enough to pass all the tests could reach Aslan's Country. Think of these as a series of gates that tested patience, courage, temperance, love, self-control, resolve, and zeal.

 

[jasmine tarkheena]

Jasmine, there were plenty of villains in Voyage of the Dawn Treader, but the producers were not willing to dig into that. The King's greed for the gold, Eustace's lust for independence, etc etc. Each island or situation tested a different area of character, and only those worthy enough to pass all the tests could reach Aslan's Country. Think of these as a series of gates that tested patience, courage, temperance, love, self-control, resolve, and zeal.

I think Douglas Gresham said in an interview during the time when VDT was in production, that a way to show a character being tempted was by using a sound or signal. Then of course, the product turned out differently. I think a sound would've been more interesting.

Temptation makes the story unique. Eustace was tempted to take all the gold and treasure for himself. Caspian was tempted to become the richest king. Lucy was tempted to become beautiful like Susan, if not more.

I think both BBC and Walden struggled with depicting the Dark Island. In the BBC, it was a gray mist. In the Walden, it was a green mist. I think it will be a real challenge to visualize the Dark Island. Perhaps sound design, like a hint of something. Then it would be a total darkness, and hearing sounds, like an unseen world. Then when Lucy calls out to Aslan for help, we see a speck of light and an albatross leading the way.

 

[EveningStar]

I would imagine a very dim, reverse video where you basically see people as ghostly outlines if at all.

 

[jasmine tarkheena]

I would imagine a very dim, reverse video where you basically see people as ghostly outlines if at all.

There's a part of me that's says, "Ooh yes". Yet at the same time, I almost feel uncomfortable with the idea of actually seeing it. For instance, actually showing giant scissors opening and closing is pretty uneasy. I think hearing noises of the nightmares is idea. It's like we don't see it, but we could hear it all around.

As far as differences, if changes are done for a reason, it could be done well.

I think a change from the Walden that I've actually liked was what they did with Glozelle and Prunaprismia. They were portrayed as sympathetic, and I thought it was a good way of showing that not all Telmarines were happy being under Miraz's rule. The scene where Miraz manipulates Glozelle to lie and Glozelle feeling conflicted was a good way of showing that he wasn't all that loyal to Miraz. CS Lewis never specified whether Prunaprismia was part of the plot, but she was horrified when Miraz admitted the murder of his brother, Caspian IX. It even shows that adaptions get close on occasion. Plus, Glozelle and Prunaprismia, as well as her son, were among the first to go through the doorway.

In a new PC adaption, I would like to see some more sympathetic Telmarines, including the romp with Bacchus and Silenus and freeing of the school children.

 

[EveningStar]

The mist. I could imagine one particularly nightmare named Skank that says, "You gave me life. You're my daddy, and I'm never--ever--going to leave you. Ever." Followed of course by a very nasty, echoey chuckle.

 

[jasmine tarkheena]

And what about Charn? There's a part of me says, "Ooh, yes. I like to see it." Yet another part of me says, "Okay, but how can you do the Battle of Charn?" Perhaps when we see Digory and Polly arrive in Charn, when there's no living thing, we might sense that something horrible has happened.

They might show Jadis and her sister facing one another in an earlier episode. Jadis's sister says, "Victory" and Jadis says, "Yes, but not yours."

I think a way to do the the Battle of Charn is to actually hear the noise of the battle as Jadis is telling of it, and watch Digory and Polly's reaction when she says she spoke the Deplorable Word.

 

[~Lava~]

For the Dark Island, I think having it just pitch black with the barely lit ship and having them actually say what they say in the books would be just as creepy and effective as trying to visualize the dreams.

 

[jasmine tarkheena]

The new movie or series adaption will totally be different from BBC and Walden and even the animated LWW. Here's the thing: if you do a carbon copy of the previous adaptions, it's going to be a problem. So Netflix or whatever company that adapts Narnia will have to have their own take on it.

I don't think you can do Aslan breathing life into the statues with the sparkly magic. It's fine for animation, but it may not work as well for live action.

Cair Paravel will certainly look different. I'd actually be fine if it looked different in The Silver Chair than it does in The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe and even The Horse And His Boy. It was rebuilt between Prince Caspian and The Voyage of the Dawn Treader.

I'm sure they will have to come up with their own logo, since it's likely they don't have the rights to the ones that BBC and Walden used. We might share some ideas on what the logo could look like.

 

[Benisse]

Love this discussion! Thank you Jasmine for getting us thinking.
I would love to see more of the freeing of Beruna, and to have the healing of Caspian's nurse ... although seeing a classroom of rowdy boys turned into pigs and their teacher abandoning them would be deeply disturbing.

 

[jasmine tarkheena]

Love this discussion! Thank you Jasmine for getting us thinking.

Thank you. When I was starting this discussion, I knew some would be like, "Hey, what do you mean differences I want? I want it to stay close to the book." The thing is that you can't expect it get it a 100% right. Non of the previous adaptions have done that. I want it to be different than the BBC (stay faithful but play up the tension in some way.. even get dramatic at some point) and even the Walden (not too many action scenes or saving the world plot). I would also like the new movies or series to follow the books closely, but I would like it to be different. As I've mentioned, there are some things that work well for a book may not work as well on screen.

I would love to see more of the freeing of Beruna, and to have the healing of Caspian's nurse ...

Oh yes. I think both BBC and Walden cut those out. Though I think the BBC kind of rushed through it. I would also like to see the nurse telling Caspian the stories of the old days. We might even see Miraz talking with her, telling her that she's banished.

although seeing a classroom of rowdy boys turned into pigs and their teacher abandoning them would be deeply disturbing.

There are a lot of disturbing things in the series, so I've always wonder how they would pull them off (like the scary creatures in LWW or even Tash in the stable in LB). So I wonder how they would do the boys being turned into pigs. Though I would get it might be as disturbing as a group of boys being turned into donkeys in Pinocchio.

Another I thought of what they might do differently is the Father Christmas suspense. Maybe similiar to the Walden, but without the chase scene. We could have the Beavers and the Pevensies in hiding. And they hear the sleigh bells, and when Mr. Beaver goes out to take a look, we might get a shot of the brown reindeer covered in snow.

 

[Benisse]

And I think it would be cool to film Charn itself in black and white with the sad dying sun in a muted color ... and Digory, Polly and the images could also be in color.

 

[jasmine tarkheena]

So, I'm sure we all want the new film or series franchise to be different than the Walden and BBC. A faithful adaption, yes, but not rush through it.

For instance, the battle scene in LWW will obviously be different than the BBC and Walden. That is, not as epic as Walden but not quite as cheesy as the BBC. The battle scene in the BBC just had Peter and Edmund and the army swinging their swords around at cartoon characters. The battle scene in the Walden was the main focus, and they didn't have much time for the freeing of the statues at the White Witch's castle.

I know there are a group of people who wouldn't want a battle scene and just have Aslan freeing the statues. I think there is a way to please both groups- those who'd like a battle scene and those who want more time on freeing the statues. Personally, I think either way, if it was just the battle, it would turn people off. If it was just Aslan freeing the statues and don't get to the battle until near the end, that could turn some people off to.

A way to do that is cut the camera back and forth. That is, cut every now and then to the battle. It could set up the tension in a way. "Can Aslan free the statues in time?", especially where the White Witch is turning people into stone on the battle field. Then of course, every screen adaption I've seen shows Edmund breaking the wand. It wouldn't surprise me if they did that again.