Dragon
- Thread starter dawna
- Start date
old man >>> new man
Going back to Dawna's original proposed interpretation, I see Eustace's undragoning as a conversion experience, although not necessarily the putting off of the old man and putting on of the new man. According to Ephesians 4: 20-24 this process seems to describe something that those who have already come to Christ are encouraged to do on an ongoing basis:
Ephesians 4:20-24 (New King James Version)
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Putting off the old ways and being transformed to confirm to the new by renewal and conforming to God's righteousness and holiness was a command given to the Ephesian believers.
True, when we initially choose Christ in faith we become new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17), but until we enter God's presence we will still have to choose, moment by moment, to turn from the world, our old selfish natures, and Evil. This ongoing transformation reflects the reality of Christians today as believers strive to follow Jesus rather than the ways and values of the world. This transformation process, like our initial salvation, thankfully, is empowered by God working in us as we seek him.
Going back to Dawna's original proposed interpretation, I see Eustace's undragoning as a conversion experience, although not necessarily the putting off of the old man and putting on of the new man. According to Ephesians 4: 20-24 this process seems to describe something that those who have already come to Christ are encouraged to do on an ongoing basis:
Ephesians 4:20-24 (New King James Version)
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Putting off the old ways and being transformed to confirm to the new by renewal and conforming to God's righteousness and holiness was a command given to the Ephesian believers.
True, when we initially choose Christ in faith we become new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17), but until we enter God's presence we will still have to choose, moment by moment, to turn from the world, our old selfish natures, and Evil. This ongoing transformation reflects the reality of Christians today as believers strive to follow Jesus rather than the ways and values of the world. This transformation process, like our initial salvation, thankfully, is empowered by God working in us as we seek him.
kilendil
New member
On the original topic: I think it is a conversion. But one of the most important parts that has not really been mentioned yet was that Eustace wanted to stop being a dragon. He wanted for the scales and the skin to come off.
I think an important truth that C.S. Lewis was trying to put forth was that we have to want to be saved. We can't save ourselves, but we have to want to be saved and willingly follow Christ's commandments as best we can--no matter how poorly we as imperfect creatures can follow them. Then Christ saves us. Eustace was able to take off a couple layers of scales, as Aslan commanded him, but he could not "undress." Then Aslan undressed him. It was painful, but it felt so good afterwards.
As for author intent, I think it is very important. We cannot truly understand the story in all its depths if we can't figure out the author's intent. How to know the author's intent--that's another story. Who is right as to what the author's intent was? Which professor, which English major student, which layman? My feeling is: trust your instincts. Maybe research interviews with the author, if you are so inclined. If you don't have to come up with deep and winding theories, you are most likely right, or at least on the right track. Usually the author's intent is not as hard to figure out as most professors I've met make it out to be.
I think an important truth that C.S. Lewis was trying to put forth was that we have to want to be saved. We can't save ourselves, but we have to want to be saved and willingly follow Christ's commandments as best we can--no matter how poorly we as imperfect creatures can follow them. Then Christ saves us. Eustace was able to take off a couple layers of scales, as Aslan commanded him, but he could not "undress." Then Aslan undressed him. It was painful, but it felt so good afterwards.
As for author intent, I think it is very important. We cannot truly understand the story in all its depths if we can't figure out the author's intent. How to know the author's intent--that's another story. Who is right as to what the author's intent was? Which professor, which English major student, which layman? My feeling is: trust your instincts. Maybe research interviews with the author, if you are so inclined. If you don't have to come up with deep and winding theories, you are most likely right, or at least on the right track. Usually the author's intent is not as hard to figure out as most professors I've met make it out to be.
ILoveAslan
New member
Forgive me if this is a stupid question but when I was reading this passage about Eustace being undragoned, I got the part about his repenting and wanting to be rid of all of the thick layers of scales and symbols of sin (I would say) but with the pool of water, I was curious if anyone else took that to be a symbol of baptism, too? - Being healed by Aslan after allowing him to heal him and then being washed and cleansed in the clear, cool water of that pool. Am I interpreting something that isn't meant to be a symbol? I'm curious about this.
Animus Wyrmis
New member
Unfortunately the only person who can answer that question isn't speaking anymore.
It's entirely possible that Lewis meant to invoke baptism there--the water, the cleansing, all that. On the other hand, it's also possible that Lewis didn't think to use baptism at all, but that his religious beliefs made his reach for water when he looked for a way to cleanse/renew Eustace. It's also possible that he was reaching for something else entirely, and that the baptism symbolism is just coincidence. In the end, what matters is that you see the symbolism there, not whether or not the author meant to put it there.
I think there might be a little symbolism not only in the removal of the old skin and replaced with the new but also in the pain of it. Eustace told Edmund that the lion (Aslan) removed layer after layer of his skin, each one painful. In Mere Christianity, Lewis talks about God's promise to make us perfect. He says that if we will surrender to Him, He will make us perfect but that it is going to require all of us and that it is going to hurt sometimes. But that the end result is what we must look to. In other writings, Lewis discusses how as Christians, it seems that sometimes we wake up in the morning and say to ourselves "This morning, I'm going to follow God and honor Him in all I do today." Then we step out of bed, stub our toe, cuss, and within 34 seconds we've destroyed that ambition. Lewis says but that is when we stop, acknowledge what we did and start again. He says somedays it seems every five minutes is a slip up. But that as God is perfecting us, the time in between our sins is longer. We can focus on Christ longer than our desire to sin.
I think both of those concepts can play into the symbolism of Eustace as a dragon having his skin removed.
And on an author's intentions: it is important to not come up with something crazy. Like those groups who call Lewis' writings satanic~its pretty obvious that Lewis was a strong Christian and to say Narnia was satanic is ludicrous in my opinion. But authors do end up putting their own ideas into their writings. As his faith was so important to him, it makes sense that Lewis would unintentionally have symbolism related to the Bible in his books. To know if we as readers are finding an accurate bit of symbolism or seriously reaching takes studying the author, not just one book.
I think both of those concepts can play into the symbolism of Eustace as a dragon having his skin removed.
And on an author's intentions: it is important to not come up with something crazy. Like those groups who call Lewis' writings satanic~its pretty obvious that Lewis was a strong Christian and to say Narnia was satanic is ludicrous in my opinion. But authors do end up putting their own ideas into their writings. As his faith was so important to him, it makes sense that Lewis would unintentionally have symbolism related to the Bible in his books. To know if we as readers are finding an accurate bit of symbolism or seriously reaching takes studying the author, not just one book.