Harry Potter- Good or Evil (Demonic)

Demonic or Not

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    23
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Good

Personally, I believe there are many allegorical elements in this series. Many of which are Christian. So if you can look past the "Witchcraft", then it is alright. However, many people get curious about the art and start dabbling in it.
 
Have any of you ever read 'Harry Potter and the Bible' by Richard Abanes? (you can check it out here: http://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Bible-Menace-Behind/dp/0889652015)

This book really is an eye-opener because not only has the author read all the books and refers to them constantly but he compares them to biblical values and other fantasy books such as Tolkien's Lord of the Rings and C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia.

I seriously recommend it!
 
I think to call these entertaining books 'demonic' is utterly ridiculous. 'Magic' like that is not real, never was, it's just some fun myth for people to enjoy and read - what is wrong with that! People who want to pick at this... seriously lighten up... LUMOS! ;)
 
First: My English isn't very good and writing this post is very hard for me (plus: I'm tired!), so please, respect that. It's possible that I might use phrases or words that could be misunderstood. It's hard for me to write down what I'm thinking.


If one calls HP demonic - Then why not also Narnia? It uses magic, too! It has wizards and pagan characters and so on! And it's a christian series!

So, then. Harry Potter was written by a devout christian, inspired by the christian fantasy books The Chronicles Of Narnia (ever heard of that?) and The Little White Horse. The magic in HP is portrayed in a way that would work without being "evil". The "good" wizards use a kind of magic that is more powerful than what muggles can do, but it's not godlike. They are not allmighty. And that's the most important thing! "Evil magic" can mean two things: Using magic to do bad things - and having godlike magical power. Being a god. Harry Potter world be evil, if the magic would be portrayed like that. But it isn't. The wizards are actually just normal humans with... special talents? SOme people sing extraordinarily. Some can save peoples lifes (there are some very good doctors... not all... but many...) So... Is flying on a broomstick or getting a thing without touching it really evil? I don't think so - especially when it's NOT REAL! When it's JUST A STORY! Oh, my. None of them can make food. None of them can heal illnesses just with magic. None of them can rise people from the death. None of them are immortal. The evil - the really evil - wizards though, like Voldemort, try to be what the others are not: Godlike! By being devillike. Insane, isn't it? They want to live for ever, they want to controll the world, they want to be able to do everything. Like the most bad people in fantasy books. That's nothing new. But the good wizards don't want them to do/be that, right? Do it's simply good vs. bad. The classical - christian influenced - way.

Harry Potter is not evil, not demonic, not anti-christian.In fact, it's the opposite. It shows christian allegory and christian morals. It says that you have to be a good person, that you have to love and help others and that you always need hope!

Plus, I already sayd: JKR is christian! And she's not a "paper-christian". In fact she became a christian against the wish of her father, who was a fanatical atheist.
 
No, in my opinion, the Harry Potter books are not demonic. If they were demonic, I would expect to see some evidence that the witches and wizards in the books worship Satan or participate in Satanic rituals. There is no evidence of this in the series. The wizarding world appears to be pretty secular, and the main characters celebrate Christmas and Easter, not holidays dedicated to Satan. The only wizard whom I could classify as demonic is Voldemort, and readers certainly aren’t meant to emulate him. Likewise, the group of witches and wizards whose behavior is most reminiscent of Satanists is probably the cult known as the Death Eaters, but again, Rowling writes about them in such a way that they would be the last group that young readers would want to pattern their conduct after.

People are welcome to argue that the Harry Potter books are not the greatest masterpieces of English literature or that there are some morally troubling aspects to the books, and I would say there is validity to both of those positions. However, the argument that the Harry Potter series are demonic is to me not based in truth. I’ve known plenty of Christians who have read Harry Potter, and I’ve never known one who wavered in their faith because of this series of fantasy books. There are plenty of books out there that attack Christianity, but JK Rowling’s books don’t do that. I’ve also never met anyone, Christian or not, who read the Harry Potter books and decided to take up Satanism, so I would say if the Harry Potter books are intended to be some sort of demonic evangelical tool (which I don’t believe they are), then they are pathetic attempts at that, since they really haven’t brought in any new recruits.

Are the Harry Potter books perfect? No. Are they entertaining? Yes. Do they have great characters, exciting plots, and creative settings? Yes. Do they teach some good ethics for people of all faiths? Yes. Are they pretty consistent with Christian doctrine? Yes. Are they meant to evangelize Christianity? No. Are they meant to promote Satanism? Nope. Are there some parts of the books that parents might want to discuss with children? Certainly.

Basically, the Harry Potter books are not the best literature ever, but they are far from demonic. If you become Satanic after reading the Harry Potter books, then that is more foolish than converting to the “Jedi” religion after watching the Star Wars films. If someone’s faith is shaken by reading a fantasy series that makes no outright attack on Christianity, then their faith wasn’t that strong to begin with. There are real threats that Christians need to be fighting and I believe that Harry Potter is a phantom threat. Campaigning against Harry Potter to me is a waste of energy kind of akin to tilting against windmills and tends to make Christians as a whole look like fanatics out of Spanish Inquisition since most Christians who call the series demonic haven’t read the books and pull quotes out of context to argue extreme, ridiculous opinions. Anyway, in this case, I think that both extreme positions—Harry Potter is demonic and that Harry Potter is a shining example of everything golden about morality—to be inaccurate. The Harry Potter books are just average in terms of morality. They aren’t going to turn people into saints, but neither are they going to bring about a generation of Satanists.
 
Yea that is true Tear of a Lion. However, there are certain things in the series that have a touch of occultism ex.- Hand of Glory in Chamber of Secrets. Personally, these can be easily overlooked though.
 
NarnianWarrior said:
Good point Rose. I know many people who say the series is evil and haven't even watched it. Pretty hypocritical to me!
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Yeah, it annoys me when people criticize the Harry Potter books or movies when they haven't read or seen them, respectively. It just shows me that they don't want to have a discussion so much as they want to shove their opinion down my throat. If someone has read the series or seen the movies and still thinks they are irredeemably evil or demonic, I respect their opinion, though I would have to disagree. However, if they only get their opinions on Harry Potter from secondhand, biased sources, I have to not give much credit to their opinion at all.
 
NarnianWarrior said:
Yea that is true Tear of a Lion. However, there are certain things in the series that have a touch of occultism ex.- Hand of Glory in Chamber of Secrets. Personally, these can be easily overlooked though.
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I haven't read CoS for a while and I have never read the english book so I had to google the hand of glory. But I think that's a good example for non-occultism. I mean... The Hand of Glory is definitely potrayed as being evil and bad. The allegations against HP are mostly saying it would make evil things seem good. It doesn't. It clearly says: "The Hand of Glory/etc. is BAD! You better don't like that!"
 
The Tear Of The Lion said:
I haven't read CoS for a while and I have never read the english book so I had to google the hand of glory. But I think that's a good example for non-occultism. I mean... The Hand of Glory is definitely potrayed as being evil and bad. The allegations against HP are mostly saying it would make evil things seem good. It doesn't. It clearly says: "The Hand of Glory/etc. is BAD! You better don't like that!"
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Yea, that is true. The object was definitely NOT glorified in this series. No pun intended lol.
 
As with Tolkien's fictional place Lothlorien, some fantasy only contains evil IF THE READER BRINGS ALONG THE EVIL IN HIS OWN MIND. This is NOT true of blatantly God-rejecting fantasies. "His Dark Materials," for instance, was created FOR THE VERY PURPOSE of denying God; it this were not so, the series would NEVER end with the announcement of a "Republic of Heaven" which POINTEDLY EXCLUDES any place for the Creator. That is in no way neutral or noncommittal, it is a headlong, hateful attack against faith.

But what about Harry Potter? That's the question here.

Every instructed Christian understands that there are three categories of things: things that belong WITHIN the material universe, GOOD spiritual things, and EVIL spiritual things. That covers ALL reality. Anything supernatural that is NOT evil, will inevitably acknowledge and serve God. Accordingly, any ACTUAL serious attempt by mortals to possess an explicitly SUPERNATURAL power which FAILS to submit to God.... is one and the same thing as joining the other side. The Biblical commandments against sorcery are not there just because God was feeling cranky that day.

Now, that's in real life. But there is such a thing as imagining a "What if--?" just for fun. A sincere believer would NEVER wish to fantasize Phillip Pullman's warped vision, because no sincere believer wishes for God not to exist. But it is possible for Christians in a "What if--?" mood to enjoy imagining a place like Hogwarts, without this meaning that they REALLY WANT to insult God by trying to set up an independent spiritual power.

Nothing about Harry Potter edifies me or inspires me in the slightest degree. I am not the least bit impressed when Potter fans argue, "But Harry's parents LOVED him, and nothing matters but love, love, love, so the Harry Potter series is sacred literature!" Not so. Love without truth becomes the blind leading the blind. So I see no more spiritual benefit in the Potter stories than in any randomly-chosen Louis L'Amour cowboy novel. But reading the Potter stories does not necessarily HARM the reader, provided that the reader isn't wishing to live in Hogwarts INSTEAD OF knowing the grace of Christ. So, on that understanding, I say everyone to his own junk food.
 
Wow, good point Copperfox. That is true about the love aspect. Without truth it is nothing. So in your view, a person who is shaky in their faith would be susceptible to the dark content ex. spiritualism, occultism, etc. Perahps the most offensive aspect to me about this series is J.K writing about children conversing with the dead. I mean...that can lead to loads of trouble. Lewis never went anywhere towards that.
 
Yes, Warrior, anyone without strong roots in God's Word could be influenced the wrong way. Some will now screech that I'm calling for censorship -- but I'm not. I call for discernment.

I watch movies about mythical characters, like "Jason and the Argonauts," and am not in any spiritual danger from this, because I don't believe there is _actually_ any such person as Zeus. You might say that I keep the falsehoods at arm's length. The danger comes, and I grant that all of us have to discern this for ourselves case by case, is when we begin seriously wishing to bring those falsehoods _into_ our lives.

When I was a sophomore in college, I was only then starting to learn what was in the Bible. This was a transitional time for me, which could have gone either way. Because of my physical smallness, runtiness, puniness, tininess and weakness as a boy, I was _extraordinarily_ susceptible to the desire for occult power to compensate. For awhile, this impaired my understanding of Scripture. When I read about my namesake, the original Joseph, interpreting Pharaoh's dream, I wanted to believe that Joseph really _owned_ the power, that it was _internal_ to him and _not_ only on loan from God. I remember saying once that he had E.S.P.!

By God's grace, I got past that pitfall.
 
Copperfox, I think you bring up an important point when you mention that the Harry Potter series does not harm the reader as long as the person in question does not wish to go to Hogwarts instead of know the grace and the glory of God. That is the big reason why I don’t think that it is demonic. I feel like in order for something to be demonic, it must be actively intended to lead a person toward Satan and away from God. To me, Harry Potter doesn’t meet that requirement.

I understand people not enjoying the series or finding them morally objectionable in some ways, and I wouldn’t claim they are the best literature ever written in terms of the technical aspects of writing or the thematic. Mainly, I love the Harry Potter books for the characters above all else, actually. There are just so many different characters with so many amusing quirks that they all feel very vivid to me. Harry Potter also has a bit of nostalgia for my generation, I admit. When I need a laugh, I’ll flip to a funny scene, and I feel a bit better.

Honestly, to me, the Harry Potter series was written to be entertainment. I think that JKR wanted to teach some things about love and bravery the way the maker of a Western movie might have wanted to show a message about courage or sacrifice, but she didn’t mean to create high literature. I don’t think she was trying to provide us with an elaborate framework of truth.

For the most part, I think that the teachings of love and other values that JKR tries to share with readers are pretty consistent with Christian theology, but I don’t think they are sufficient to be the complete truth in themselves. I think she just wanted to share a tale that she was imagining. I don’t think that she wanted to do any harm by telling her tale, but I don’t think she set out to create a guide to truth. I guess, in a nutshell, I find it equally annoying when people are like “Harry Potter is demonic and nobody should ever read it!” and when people are like “Harry Potter is the best book ever and anyone who doesn’t love it is an ignoramus!” I tend to take the attitude that Harry Potter isn’t a literary masterpiece but it’s a fun read as long as you think carefully about some of the more morally questionable aspects (especially in latter books). But I feel like you should be thinking closely about the moral implications of anything you read so that isn’t necessarily a condemnation in itself.

NarnianWarrior, I suppose that someone not strong in their faith might be more susceptible to the occult aspects of Harry Potter, but I also will say that I don’t think everyone who isn’t a devout Christian who reads Harry Potter will become pagan or Satanist. Plenty of my atheist and agnostic friends read Harry Potter and they have not expressed any interest in the occult. They are just as dubious of that stuff as they are of Christianity and other faiths.

I also will say that I was nominally a Christian but practically an atheist when I read all the Harry Potter books for the first time (I didn’t take my faith seriously until I got to college and had a conversion experience by the grace of God), but I never took any interest in the occult. Everything in the books that had anything to do with magic was just fantasy to me. I think you have to be pretty gullible to decide that you are going to practice the occult and all after reading one fantasy series that really doesn’t have that much to do with the occult. (To me, it’s kind of like believing in the Force and “becoming” a Jedi after watching the Star Wars films. You’re only going to do that if you’ve got a couple of screws loose, in my opinion.) It might be a problem for some people, but it’s not going to be an issue for everyone. Most people are going to get harmless fun out of Harry Potter, much as they are going to get harmless fun out of a romance novel by Nicholas Sparks or a horror novel by Stephen King.

I wasn’t the biggest fan of JKR writing about children conversing with the dead in her latter books in the series. I think that JKR kind of started writing a bit more toward adults rather than kids in her latter books. That’s why I think there are more troubling aspects in the latter books than the earlier ones. I don’t think that it is possible for people to speak to the dead via séances, etc., but I think that people tend to go down dangerous paths when they try to do that. Not only is it not spiritually safe, it tends to lead you to bad circles of people, so I would talk to a kid about how it’s not possible to speak to the dead like Harry Potter did when I let a child read Harry Potter.
 
Sunshine, I have no fear of YOU falling into the occult snares. :)

For the most part, I think that the teachings of love and other values that JKR tries to share with readers are pretty consistent with Christian theology, but I don’t think they are sufficient to be the complete truth in themselves.

An author can describe love and values for a thousand pages.... but if the author NEVER GIVES CREDIT TO THE TRUE GOD for inventing love in the first place, the value of the story is limited at best.
 
SunshineRose said:
Honestly, to me, the Harry Potter series was written to be entertainment. I think that JKR wanted to teach some things about love and bravery the way the maker of a Western movie might have wanted to show a message about courage or sacrifice, but she didn’t mean to create high literature. I don’t think she was trying to provide us with an elaborate framework of truth.
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Indeed.

I suppose that someone not strong in their faith might be more susceptible to the occult aspects of Harry Potter, but I also will say that I don’t think everyone who isn’t a devout Christian who reads Harry Potter will become pagan or Satanist. Plenty of my atheist and agnostic friends read Harry Potter and they have not expressed any interest in the occult. They are just as dubious of that stuff as they are of Christianity and other faiths.
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A little confused by this occult mention. Guess it's my general stance about such things. Never once when I read the books was I thinking 'this is occult... interesting... hmm'. The Death Eaters are a selection of, essentially, foolish, misguided people - that sort of idea is in so many stories and films. Perhaps that part isn't the bit you're referencing to... :)

Everything in the books that had anything to do with magic was just fantasy to me. I think you have to be pretty gullible to decide that you are going to practice the occult and all after reading one fantasy series that really doesn’t have that much to do with the occult. (To me, it’s kind of like believing in the Force and “becoming” a Jedi after watching the Star Wars films. You’re only going to do that if you’ve got a couple of screws loose, in my opinion.)
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Again, yes, exactly - it's just a fantasy book with some good, evil, fun, magic, heroes and so on, as squillions of books and films have had before and after it! The idea of talking to the dead goes with this.
 
Yes, I do believe Harry Potter is alright....to those who are stable in they're faith. Talking to the dead, drinking blood, etc are all occult practices. Withcraft is a religion but the witchcraft in Harry Potter is heavily fantasized. Still, that doesn't mean Harry Potter doesn't have an inkling here and there of occult imagery.
 
Yes, I do believe Harry Potter is alright....to those who are stable in they're faith. Talking to the dead, drinking blood, etc are all occult practices. Withcraft is a religion but the witchcraft in Harry Potter is heavily fantasized. Still, that doesn't mean Harry Potter doesn't have an inkling here and there of occult imagery.
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The things like drinking blood and disturbing the dead are viewed as evil and a misuse of the power, though.


Copperfox said:
Sunshine, I have no fear of YOU falling into the occult snares. :)

For the most part, I think that the teachings of love and other values that JKR tries to share with readers are pretty consistent with Christian theology, but I don’t think they are sufficient to be the complete truth in themselves.

An author can describe love and values for a thousand pages.... but if the author NEVER GIVES CREDIT TO THE TRUE GOD for inventing love in the first place, the value of the story is limited at best.
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I do not think every story needs to outright mention God for it to have value. If you're going to say that, what do we make of books like The Odyssey, that are pagan in nature? It's an absolutely gorgeous and moving work, even if morally and spiritually we'd have grievances with it. Heck, what about Lord of the Rings? There's no Christian God there, as it was heavily influenced by anglo-saxon mythologies, AND it contains a good deal of magic. I don't see anyone disclaiming that. It is also a story of friendship and courage, and those values are not diminished by the lack of Christianity.

No work contains 'complete truth' (I'd argue that even the Bible doesn't, but that's an argument for another thread), and I do not think the value of the book is determined by whether or not it mentions the Biblical God. HP isn't supposed to be didactic, it's just supposed to be a darn good story, which it is.
 
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