MN after SC? What happened to HHB?

narnianqueen1

narnianqueen1

New member
Have any of you seen the recent interview posted on narniafans with Doug Gresham? If you have, you would have realised that he mentioned Silver Chair and Magician's Nephew as possible subsequent movies. I understand Silver Chair of course, but what happened to Horse and His Boy? I was under the impression that HHB would be made after SC. At least that's what it is saying on various sites. Ah, I don't know. I love HHB and have been waiting for the movie for years, and it's just frustrating that he didn't mention HHB at all. :(

Any thoughts?
 
I agree, though I think the speculation may be moot. As I discuss elsewhere, I think that Dawn Treader will be the last Narnia film made.

If the next film is made, though, and it gets to one after that, I can see the argument for making Nephew after Chair. As a narrative, Horse kind of steps out of the chronological flow of the tales - it's sort of a literary detour. ("Oh, yes, here was something that happened during the Golden Age.") People can understand linear flow of stories, and can deal with "going backwards" to deal with things like origin stories, but asides like that confuse people.

There's also the unfortunate factor of political correctness, which may mean that Horse will never get made - despite the fact that it is one of the most egalitarian of tales.
 
If the filmmakers were worried about political correctness, POTW, Dawn Treader wouldn't have included Aslan's lines at the end of the movie. Just saying.

I've always thought that putting TMN and TLB back to back was a bad idea in terms of films. How confusing is it to have one movie depicting the very beginning of Narnia and then another depicting the very end of Narnia right next to each other? If they put HHB in between the two, to me, it helps on some of the confusion. But that's just my theory. If they make TSC, and possibly TMN, why would they stop at TMN? If anything they would go ahead and make the others just to finish the series.
 
First of all, we do not know if there will be any new Narnia films. We can not take the future of the series for granted. I think doing Silver Chair next would be a very logical step, but the reality is that The Magician's Nephew is a much more well known book that could draw larger audiences.

I do not have a problem with them doing:
  • LWW
  • PC
  • VDT
  • SC
  • MN
  • HB
  • LB

This could work very well because as Tirian from NarniaWeb mentioned, this would set up the Calormines before the Last Battle. Doing Magician's Nephew would be more profitable in the short term, but it is awkward for the long term order of the stories. The most important thing is film quality. All I want is to see high quality film adaptations of the books. So far they have somewhat followed through with that. PC and LWW were absolutely spectacular films, but VDT did not live up to the high standard of quality. As long as the movies are as good as the first two I do not care what order the movies are filmed.

I just re-read the Horse and His Boy for the first time in years. I had a great time reading it and that book is now my favorite. I think that HB has the potential of being one of the best movies ever made. What is unique about that book is that it is very different than the other films. It is not a story that is about Narnia until the very end of the story. They need to have a good script for HB that will make several changes to the book to improve the story and enhance the final battle scene. It is also very important that HB has a great art direction to capture the style of the cultures. The film should have good locations and excellent cinematography. I hope that the Horse and His Boy is made. This could breathe new life into the series and stand alone as a fantastic movie.
 
PoTW, I read your post, and would sadly see the realistic sense of DT being the last movie. However, I agree with NarniaExpert’s opinion on HHB’s potential, despite the view that HHB would be a detour, PC and DT have copped flak because they didn’t live up to the expectations of LWW (obviously). The movie industry is ruthless, and although Narnian fans would probably go and see every movie, that can not be the same for the rest. I truly think HHB could get them out of this rut and raise Narnia’s name back up. Look how well Prince of Persia did in the box office. Sands of Time had an estimated budget of maximum $150 million, and earned over twice that at $335 million. Obviously, I’m aware PoP is a timeless classic, so naturally it would have been successful, however I want to make the point that if people watch the HHB trailer and can see similar themes (adventure in an exotic setting), it would attract a larger demographic. The very fact that ‘it is different’ than all the other tales, could be its triumph.

Also C.S Lewis dedicated HHB specifically to Douglas and his brother, that holds dear in his heart, so naturally I think he would want it to be made. As heartbreaking as it is for me to say this, if Narnia cannot go on in the land of Hollywood, then I personally think it would be wise to finish off with HHB.
 
Aside from "THE CHRONICLES OF NARNIA" and the contemporarily misfitty title "The Horse and His Boy," this movie, if advertised without necessarily mention of "Narnia," if given an adequete budget, and if directed with gifted cinematography, could be the highest grossing of the films!
 
tirian_son_of_erlian said:
Aside from "THE CHRONICLES OF NARNIA" and the contemporarily misfitty title "The Horse and His Boy," this movie, if advertised without necessarily mention of "Narnia," if given an adequete budget, and if directed with gifted cinematography, could be the highest grossing of the films!
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I agree! This film could stand alone. In envision that this film has the potential of being one of the top ten highest quality films ever made. Later I will write up some more detailed thoughts about how I envision the movie and what I would recommend changing from the book. The one thing that you left out of your quote is that the Horse and his Boy should have a very good script. The script should translate well onto the screen and use small changes to enhance the story.
 
I would be very interested to find out what your thoughts are. If there was anything that I would change about the movie, although there would be those who might not agree, it would be to raise the ages of the Aravis and Shasta/Cor by a few years. Why I state this is for two reasons:

1) There is the issue of depicting Aravis' suicide attempt at such a young age. If she were a little older, there is still the shock of her being betrothed to a 60-year-old. However trying to commit suicide at 12-14 years seems like it would cop negativity.

2) Raising the ages will attract a broader demographic, and will avoid HHB going into the 'children's movie' category, if the movie can attract children, teens and adults alike, that's your perfect target.

Does anyone agree/disagree?
 
I disagree.

First, the actors that play these "kids" are oftentimes older anyway, so that compensates. We have 22 year old actors playing 15 year olds, so I don't think getting a 15 or 16 year old to play a 12-14 year old is too out of line.

Second, people spoke with their wallets after Caspian. They said outright: "You departed from the novel too much, and that killed our interest." Some said "never again." Some said they'll give it one more shot. A lot more likely have said they'll rent it and see if it's worth $1 or $15 at Walmart. If Narnia is to make money, they need to do what the first movie did. Stay closer to the story line. Enhance only where it enhances along the story line. Get in churches and pay tons of money to churches for advertising space. Pay for pulpit access and preacher recommendation from the pulpit.

As much as I (not being a christian) loathed the use of church for marketing purposes, placing Narnia as the "anti-Potter" in the deep south and other areas was brilliant marketing, and led to a ton of money. They need to go back to that method of advertising in the churches that they used before. That's your core audience. That's who needs the marketing. And you need to get them for multiple Sunday mornings and riled up against Harry Potter, or some other evil of the world.
 
Pardine said:
I disagree.

First, the actors that play these "kids" are oftentimes older anyway, so that compensates. We have 22 year old actors playing 15 year olds, so I don't think getting a 15 or 16 year old to play a 12-14 year old is too out of line.

Second, people spoke with their wallets after Caspian. They said outright: "You departed from the novel too much, and that killed our interest." Some said "never again." Some said they'll give it one more shot. A lot more likely have said they'll rent it and see if it's worth $1 or $15 at Walmart. If Narnia is to make money, they need to do what the first movie did. Stay closer to the story line. Enhance only where it enhances along the story line. Get in churches and pay tons of money to churches for advertising space. Pay for pulpit access and preacher recommendation from the pulpit.

As much as I (not being a christian) loathed the use of church for marketing purposes, placing Narnia as the "anti-Potter" in the deep south and other areas was brilliant marketing, and led to a ton of money. They need to go back to that method of advertising in the churches that they used before. That's your core audience. That's who needs the marketing. And you need to get them for multiple Sunday mornings and riled up against Harry Potter, or some other evil of the world.
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They already did a ton of faith based marketing for Voyage of the Dawn Treader. This is very important, but marketing to christians is such a small demographic. I don't think this approach worked as well as I hoped it would.

I agree with narnianqueen1. I think that depicting the kids between the ages of 14-19 would be a good idea. I think there is a lot of flexibility when it comes to the ages of the children because the book does not list any specifics. Prince Caspian was much older than most people expected, but the older Ben Barnes worked very well. I think they could market this as a movie that will appeal to more demographics. They could potentially drop the name "Narnia" from the title and make this movie a stand alone classic, but I doubt they should do that.
 
Pardine said:
Second, people spoke with their wallets after Caspian. They said outright: "You departed from the novel too much, and that killed our interest." Some said "never again." Some said they'll give it one more shot. A lot more likely have said they'll rent it and see if it's worth $1 or $15 at Walmart. If Narnia is to make money, they need to do what the first movie did. Stay closer to the story line. Enhance only where it enhances along the story line. Get in churches and pay tons of money to churches for advertising space. Pay for pulpit access and preacher recommendation from the pulpit.

As much as I (not being a christian) loathed the use of church for marketing purposes, placing Narnia as the "anti-Potter" in the deep south and other areas was brilliant marketing, and led to a ton of money. They need to go back to that method of advertising in the churches that they used before. That's your core audience. That's who needs the marketing. And you need to get them for multiple Sunday mornings and riled up against Harry Potter, or some other evil of the world.
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As this isn't a religious discussion, I won't say anything past, "Your post is narrow minded and somewhat hateful in its discussion of churches."

I agree with narnianqueen on the ages though. It won't bother me if they make the kids 15 or 16 years old.
 
My post is neither hateful nor narrowminded.

The original Narnia movie by Disney/Walden was heavily marketed towards churches. *There were speaking engagments, lots of money, discounts on Narnia based Vacation Bible School curricula and entire Narnia based Curricula. *There were heavy "get out the message" events that were organized around promotional material to be distributed during sunday school at churches, there were sermons written, and there was an entire template for use as a Church Bulletin. *There were DVDs made that talked about things, and some of that material ended up on the Collectors edition of LWW that I have sitting at home right now.

While you may think all this was done in an attempt to win people to God, the primary purpose of this marketing was to hit the target audience and put butts in seats at movie theatres. * There was money paid, there were endorsements bought, and this was done in the first movie.

In the second movie, it was done a lot less... and in the third, Fox decided not to release curricula until later in the year, missing the valuable Vacation Bible School buying period. *The reason they did this is because in the Second movie, a lot of clips ended up being ripped from the DVDs given to churches and ended up on line. * *The push back to December from the beginning of summer seriously made numerous churches angry. * One local mega-church even had comments in the local papers about how the Narnia buzz was not present this year due to Fox screwing it up.

I don't think you should be too offended to see that a film you like was marketed in the way to make it the most money. * It's not narrowminded to point out that the buzz in churches for LWW was generated by a very clever ad agency knowing how to effectively reach its client's target market. * It's not my fault people are consumers and buy what is pushed in front of them, and it's not my fault churches around the US and especially the deep south decided to adopt a curricula designed by an ad agency.

I just think they should have done it again. *It would have made the flick more successful than it has been.



Also, I have no idea why asterisks appear on this post. They don't link to anything
 
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I have to say, discussions on this forum in my absence, at least this one, have taken a turn for the better. :D
 
Christians are by no means a small demographic in the US.

If ten percent of the Christians in the us saw this movie in theaters just once, and paid an average of $7.50 to see it, the film would gross 177 million. In the us alone.

That's a huge demographic, likely one of the largest demos in the us
 
Aravis Kenobi said:
And since this isn't even a DISCUSSION of church publicity, don't you think it's just slightly off topic to even mention it?
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Kind of. I was platforming off the comment that there was something that needed to be fixed here.

If SC is to come out at all, lessons need to be learned about why it's not doing so well.

You may not believe this, but I really would like to see them all come out.

My apologies if I offended. The movie industry is harsh, and cruel, and sometimes I forget that the customers aren't.
 
It is amazing to see how easily these discussions drift off topic. If you were comparing the faith-based marketing between LWW and PC this would be very relevant. Grace Hill Media was the same group that did the christian marketing for both Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe and Voyage of the Dawn Treader. I really don't see a difference between the church marketing they did for these movies. VDT was shown to thousands of pastors prior to the movie's release, but churches just didn't respond like they did to LWW. I don't think this is relevant because there was not very much of a difference between the christian marketing for these two movies.
 
NarniaExpert said:
It is amazing to see how easily these discussions drift off topic. If you were comparing the faith-based marketing between LWW and PC this would be very relevant. Grace Hill Media was the same group that did the christian marketing for both Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe and Voyage of the Dawn Treader. I really don't see a difference between the church marketing they did for these movies. VDT was shown to thousands of pastors prior to the movie's release, but churches just didn't respond like they did to LWW. I don't think this is relevant because there was not very much of a difference between the christian marketing for these two movies.
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At risk of drawing the ire of others again, I'll say this much..

The reason the churches didn't respond (my mother is an elder at a church, and I'm good friends with pastors around here) is because the Vacation Bible School curricula was supposed to be available during the summer. It was pushed at the last minute to later in the year, due to the pirating of content from the DVDs contained in the Prince Caspian package. Fox didn't want to run the risk again. So, with it, alot of other promotional material was pushed back.

This made people who do budgets at churches angry, because it was an unnecessary expense. It also made curricula planners angry because they were counting on this being present and available for sale. Not many people know about the business side of a church, but if you make the RE director and the Treasurer upset, you've made harsh enemies at that church.

I hope, in the future, for Magician's Nephew and for Silver Chair (especially for MN, as there are a lot of important lessons on sin and original sin that can be taught from it) , that they remember not to make people that make decisions angry.

And that's all I'll say here.
 
That's a very interesting insight into the behind-the-scenes operations of church operations. Also, don't things have to be lined up and ready to go far in advance of when it would seem necessary? For instance, aren't RelEd departments going to be making their decisions about VBS curricula very shortly, now that Christmas is over? That would probably mean the material to evaluate them would need to be in their hands well before that.

I don't think much of marketing to churches, but it's a factor that can't be ignored.
 
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