Peter vs. Caspian

BarbarianKing said:
Go ahead, but I don't think I will be posting anymore about what I think of the movie. I am feeling exhausted about this whole deal, and the more I discuss it, the worse the film seems to me and the angrier I get at the film makers[...] From now on, only CS Lewis, and nothing else in regards to Narnia.
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I'm sorry things are seeming so bleak right now. But I understand you're wanting to stop discussing a movie that disappointed in favor of focusing on the unparalleled books. You've spoken eloquently on the topic and I suppose if it doesn't please you much to think of the film than it becomes a waste of time for you to continue the same old discussions. I hope you won't permanently reclude in the Chronicles and Lewis sections of the forum, however, as I feel you might find from time to time that you have something you should like to discuss about the film after all. :)

I guess the thing about media adaptations is that you can take it or leave it or even just borrow it now and then. They're too extraneous to interfere with the original itself.
____

And I guess, on topic, it does seem as if most fans prefered the film version of Caspian over Peter! With good reason, no doubt.

And, as I've already said my part on this, I shall simply resign myself to holding the minority position.
 
Thanks Rachel :) but really it was more of the same thing. I'd just seen PC again and wanted to go on some more about Peter's initiative and then his resilience and how, despite several arguments to the contrary, I thought the younger boys Ed and Caspian actually got to learn a lot from him after all. (as did Lucy from Susan) etc.

So instead of going off into a long tangential argument, I think my stance on this thread can be stated more simply. IMO those who thought Caspian in the film was better than Peter are thinking about the extent that Peter of the movie did not meet their expectations of him from the book.

Because if you directly compare Caspian & Peter's actions in the film, IMO it is very clear that Peter emerges as the one with the superior leadership. Still Caspian is far from a loser because at the end Peter attains closure whereas Caspian is just getting started.

However, I do wish that the film had the entire Aslan/Peter/Caspian scene from the book for their meeting and delayed Reepicheep's funeral procession. There was room there and it would have fitted perfectly with the themes the movie chose to emphasize. It would also have made manifest that Peter is still High King during Caspian's kingship.
 
My opinion is

I think Peter showed the superior leadership. However, it was quite clear to me that Caspian was coming into his own as a leader throughout the movie. I may be slightly biased, as Peter is my favorite of the human characters.

I, like many others here, was quite upset with the character assassination of Peter, especially in comparison with the way he was in LWW. However(after my second through fifth viewings), the changes grew on me a little, as I tried to understand from Peter's point of view.

I feel Peter was only trying too hard to prove himself, not only to Aslan and the Narnians, but himself as well. He was obviously bothered in some way that HE didn't defeat Jadis, and that he was just an ordinary kid again after returning from Narnia.

That's not to say he didn't go about things the wrong way, but I really felt for him. And Lucy did as well, which is something I loved. The closeness between eldest brother and youngest sister was something that never got compromised (and it's something that I've felt first-hand growing up as big brother to two much younger sisters myself), and I think that Lucy's comforting him, was what ultimately enabled Peter to realize he didn't have to prove himself to anyone other than Aslan.

I just hope that VDT keeps that vibe. I would love to see that, even though Lucy loves and trusts Ed and Caspian dearly, she still misses Peter a great deal while in Narnia.

That being said, I really feel that Peter should've resisted the White Witch, and been the one to prevent her return. Too many moments were given to Edmund, I think. Don't get me wrong, I truly like Edmund, but he will be back in Narnia for VDT, and Peter will not, so there's plenty for Ed to do to be a major hero later on. I'm sorry, but my slightly biased opinion is that, along with the Miraz fight, the White Witch scene should've been Peter's moment to shine.

I hope I made some sense, and without upsetting anyone.
 
Welcome, High King Wolfsbane! :) It is excellent to have you join the discussion. I think you have very concisely hit the heart of the matter. I agree with you 100% from thinking Peter had superior leadership to wishing he'd been given more, loving his relationship with Lucy and hoping it isn't entirely replaced in VotDT, him being my favorite book Pevensie, etc. The entire post, in fact.

I agree with you that it felt like Ed had been given too many moments and that I thought Peter should have been the one to defeat Jadis. However, I read an excellent post somewhere on this board which explained the nature of enchantment and that Lucy and Ed really should have been the only ones to resist Jadis, Lu for her unparalleled faith in Aslan and Ed for his insider knowledge.

Having Ed defeat Jadis did complete his redemption from LWW and set up an interesting scenario for Peter to really humble him as the enchantment is stripped away and he is confronted by Aslan and the memory of Lucy's words "Don't you remember who really defeated the WW?"

So, I do always wish that Peter could have had a more blazing redemption and more moments of greatness but I am still content to call the WW an excellent scene of the film as it stands.

And I agree fully that by the end it is already clear that Caspian has grown into his own kingship. I think it was well done having Aslan say "Rise kings and queens of Narnia --all of you" to complete his journey. Only, as I've mentioned higher up in the page, I do wish there had been a statement from Aslan to complete Peter's journey: e.g. coronating Caspian under Him and the High King.
 
Welcome, High King Wolf's Bane. I didn't see you post before. I felt rather as you did -- at first I was appalled at what had been done to Peter's character, but after I saw the film a second time ... oh, I was still appalled about that ... but I enjoyed the film much more the second time and was not as badly put off by Peter.

I still think in the film, Caspian came off as the stronger one and possibly the better leader, which is a shame. :(
 
I agree, inkspot. I was apalled, but had I seen it again, I might have felt better? :confused: At least I hope. I have to wait till it comes out on DVD to decide if I truly DO feel better. ;)

I also agree with 5th Pevensie that the line from the book "under us and the high king" would have been VERY appropriate in completing Peter's journey and placing him back up in the eyes of all as "high king" (not PAST high king, but ALWAYS high king). He's still introduced as High King Peter in The Last Battle! :)

Something to think about though--I did feel that many of the scenes in PC seemed to be, as mentioned earlier, to complete the redeption of Edmund, but also to almost "train" him to "take over" for Peter like he does in Dawn Treader. Though Edmund is never High King, he is still in a measure of authority over Caspian. This actually comes into play twice in Dawn Treader, the first time on Goldwater/Deathwater Island when Aslan has to intervene to prevent a bloody fight, and at the end when Caspian tries to abdicate and Edmund confronts him. It makes me wonder if the script writers will try a similar thing with Edmund and Caspian? I hope not, since Edmund and Caspian are portrayed as great friends in the book and also because (at least I would hope) Caspian should be portrayed as more kingly. :)
 
Elentari, I love your siggy-quote.


"And as he took her hand and kissed it, he fell into sleep. And then a great beauty was revealed in him: for it seemed that the grace of his youth, the valor of his manhood, and the wisdom of his old age, were blended together."
 
Elentari, I had not thought about what they did to Peter's character being done to Ed's in VDT -- I sincerely hope there is nothing of that kind in the movie! If Ed and Caspian should somehow be in competition, that would be dreadful. It's another reason they should have actually cast a teenager to play Caspian -- because Ed in VDT book is an authority figure as well as a friend to Caspian, which is going to look odd considering Caspian is 10 years older than Ed in the films.
 
inkspot said:
It's another reason they should have actually cast a teenager to play Caspian -- because Ed in VDT book is an authority figure as well as a friend to Caspian, which is going to look odd considering Caspian is 10 years older than Ed in the films.
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yes, i agree with this. Ed would look really odd.. it would be a distraction to the audience and would look somewhat comical. :eek:
 
I liked Peter, even though he was kind of rude. He is the HIGH king and is over every other king in Narnia, but he was a bit too rude to Caspian. I wish the scriptwriters would have stuck to the book and made Susan's character the annoying one, but they had to make her fall in love with Caspian instead. I do think that Peter had the right to kind of take over the plans for battle because he really is over Caspian, but I think Peter was trying too hard to prove his worth and not to help Caspian. But whether or not I didn't like Peter's role in this film, I still like William Moseley!!:D
 
Yes, I hope that William will get other opportunities. Let's see--maybe as a dashing Mountie in a historical film set in Canada. I definitely wish he would stick to good-guy roles...unlike Elijah "Frodo" Wood, who portrayed a depraved psychotic murderer in "Sin City."
 
Copperfox said:
Yes, I hope that William will get other opportunities. Let's see--maybe as a dashing Mountie in a historical film set in Canada. I definitely wish he would stick to good-guy roles...unlike Elijah "Frodo" Wood, who portrayed a depraved psychotic murderer in "Sin City."
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^Ditto.:rolleyes:
So many actors go off the end after a decent role.:(
For WM,and the rest of the cast's sake,I'd hope they'd get out of show biz,and lead normal decent lives.:o

On a side note,I'm looking forward to seeing Caspian's characetr develope more in the next film.I remember at the end of VOTD Caspian gets a little rude and haughty,and that will be a strange contrast against the humble prince of PC film.:cool:
 
DaydreamBeliever said:
^Ditto.:rolleyes:
So many actors go off the end after a decent role.:(
For WM,and the rest of the cast's sake,I'd hope they'd get out of show biz,and lead normal decent lives.:o

On a side note,I'm looking forward to seeing Caspian's characetr develope more in the next film.I remember at the end of VOTD Caspian gets a little rude and haughty,and that will be a strange contrast against the humble prince of PC film.:cool:
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I actually didn't find Will to be that great of an actor...if anything Skandar was the one that really stood out (in both films) as an amazing actor!

I also can't wait for VotDT. I do not though think that Caspian was rude or haughty...I think that he felt more of a duty of him in the end of the book.
 
inkspot said:
Elentari, I had not thought about what they did to Peter's character being done to Ed's in VDT -- I sincerely hope there is nothing of that kind in the movie! If Ed and Caspian should somehow be in competition, that would be dreadful. It's another reason they should have actually cast a teenager to play Caspian -- because Ed in VDT book is an authority figure as well as a friend to Caspian, which is going to look odd considering Caspian is 10 years older than Ed in the films.
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Well, I don't know about that. It depends on how Skandar acts on the part. If Skandar brings an acts kind of older and acts like a king (which I'm sure he'd be able to do ;)) it wouldn't look to weird having Ed as an authority next to Caspian.
 
Mrs. Pevensie said:
I actually didn't find Will to be that great of an actor...if anything Skandar was the one that really stood out (in both films) as an amazing actor!

I also can't wait for VotDT. I do not though think that Caspian was rude or haughty...I think that he felt more of a duty of him in the end of the book.
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Skandar does do an amzing job.My favorite actor of them is Georgie,though.:DShe was so amazingly good in LWW,for being so young.:)

Oh,well,maybe that was just my impresssion.:p
 
absolutely true

What you said is the absolute truth peter never hears the opinion of caspian.
Moreover, he never belefs in anything that lucy says first when she said about the wardrobe second about Asalan
He thinks and does what he likes
But on the other hand caspian is much better b'cos he is calm, and behaves properly with all
So according to me caspian is 10,000 times better than peter
 
Welcome, cute love, I did not see you post before. :)

In the film, Caspian is better than Peter, but I don't know if he is ten thousand times better!
 
I disagree...

cute_love said:
What you said is the absolute truth peter never hears the opinion of caspian.
Moreover, he never belefs in anything that lucy says first when she said about the wardrobe second about Asalan
He thinks and does what he likes
But on the other hand caspian is much better b'cos he is calm, and behaves properly with all
So according to me caspian is 10,000 times better than peter
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You can't just fault Peter for not believing Lucy, because nobody else did either.

In LWW, Ed and Susan don't believe her either (In reality, most people would just pass it off as a child's imagination), and then, after he sees Narnia himself, Ed goes on to lie in order to discredit Lucy further.

Professor Kirke only believes her because he'd been to Narnia before (see: The Magician's Nephew).


In PC, Ed is the ONLY one who believes her. Susan doesn't believe her until after they cross the gorge. Peter wants to believe her, but doesn't understand why HE doesn't see Aslan, and ultimately goes along with the majority vote, and Trumpkin doesn't believe at all until the end.

Peter does hear Caspian's opinion, but he disagrees, and in the end everyone follows Peter's plan to raid the castle, which would have worked if Caspian hadn't decided to go after Miraz. Remember, things didn't start to go wrong until Caspian decided to do his own thing by going after Miraz in the first place. Granted, Peter may have had time to call it off, but by that time, Ed was caught, and Peter was desperate to prove himself to everyone.

Furthermore, in the film, it's Caspian's suggestion for Peter to challenge Miraz, which he does, so that means Peter did have interest in Caspian's ideas and opinions.

And remember, Peter defeats Caspian in their swordfight by disarming him (and that's even with the element of surprise in Caspian's favor), and would have finished the job if Lucy hadn't screamed for them to stop. Peter also does better in all the other fighting as well.

However, it isn't until they both put their egos aside and work together that things start to turn in their favor, and even so, in the end it's Lucy's undying faith in Aslan that ultimately wins the day.
 
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