The end of Narnia?

Copperfox said:
I didn't say to HAVE SyFy Channel DO IT, only that their kind of budget level and technique COULD produce an "affordable" Horse-and-Boy adaptation, as long as you had a good script and the right actors.
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Oh, sorry. What's interesting though is that is doesn't actually cost that much to make really good effects. I once saw a video made by college-aged kids on a $300 budget- that's small compared to Hollywood and the like- that had better effects then some movies you'd find in theaters.
 
ESA Warrior said:
Oh, sorry. What's interesting though is that is doesn't actually cost that much to make really good effects. I once saw a video made by college-aged kids on a $300 budget- that's small compared to Hollywood and the like- that had better effects then some movies you'd find in theaters.
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'Pendragon: Sword of his Father' (2008) was a christian fantasy done on a shoestring budget with really well done effects. Some of them don't come off quite as well (some green screens are a bit obvious), but I was really surprised on the quality of the effects from a no-name christian studio.
 
I am wondering if since the Narnia books came out originally in the 1940's with the LWW it is not as easy for younger fans to relate the books to movies as they did in Harry Potter. Not to compare them because in my opinion Narnia is better. I'm just considering why younger fans might not relate so much to Narnia because the books didn't come out as recent as Harry Potter. I know the books have been reissued a few times.

I really hope they continue with the series though. I would like see it until the very end. Yes, I can read the books and they are by far the best way to enjoy the series. I hope you all know what I mean though.
 
The Narnia books are popular as books on their own merit. I think the movies's lack of appeal is that the film writers are not really making films of the Narnia books written by CS Lewis but films about Narnia fanfiction written by them.

So if the rights have expired and there needs to be a gap of several years before they can be optioned again, this means that a reboot is definitely in the horizon... assuming that the franchise is picked up again, that is.
 
Children's literature has changed in the (roughly) sixty years since this series was published. Stories children expected back then are different than what are expected today. Society has changed, so the childnre's basic preferences for stories has changed.

Also, as has been stated with the Narnia series, this is light fantasy. HP was a darker fantasy, even in the first books. The HP series was the right series at the right time. Children obviously identified with these books more than the Narnia books. Sometimes, there is no obvious reason.

The HP series benefitted from movies and books coming out together. The movies fed off of the popularity of the books and the latter books fed off the popularity of both the past books and the movies. This is not something Narnia can compee with. Also, considering the most known book in the Narnia series was the first one wrote, it posed a problem for the popularity of the latter movies. Less people knew about them and there was not much of a aparatus to bring new readers in or keep the popularity going.

The Narnia series was only as good as its last movie.

MrBob
 
I just hope all the book are make into movies, it will be a huge dissapointing if they don't, and about the ages of the characters i'm sure they'll find a good solutionto it :D
 
I'm not a huge fan of the films about Narnia. To me the Narnia books are fairy stories with morals and mystery. The films seem to be trying to turn them into (fantasy) adventure stories.

Although the children had adventures in Narnia, the books were NOT adventure books. In my opinion. The books were fables and fairy stories and based on such traditional writings.

They are soaked in history. They were not supposed to be modern.
 
Honza said:
I'm not a huge fan of the films about Narnia. To me the Narnia books are fairy stories with morals and mystery. The films seem to be trying to turn them into (fantasy) adventure stories.

Although the children had adventures in Narnia, the books were NOT adventure books. In my opinion. The books were fables and fairy stories and based on such traditional writings.

They are soaked in history. They were not supposed to be modern.
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They are adventure stories, however they are adventure stories with deep layers, symbolism and meaning. This gives the stories a rather timeless quality that makes it enjoyable no matter what age you are. The films started out well enough, but a lack if understanding what made Narnia different from Harry Potter and LOTR caused it to deteriorate into the shamefaced VDT.
 
The Narnia books were written by a religious man (CS Lewis) and were basically ABOUT religion. They were about how God calls upon us to be with Him and what happens when we are with Him.

The films on the other hand were NOT made by religious people. They do not carry the same message. They are NOT about religion, but rather they are about fantasy adventures.

Do you see the difference?

The books carry reverence of God, but the films do not. The books are holy because they are allegories of peoples relationship with God. The films are just re-creations of the books, but without the same message.
 
In this age of PC and general aetheism the film producers felt they could not dare to make religious films.

They would be criticised and lose money. They would not have that MASS appeal to modern youngsters. I'm sure that is what they feared.
 
Well, that's kind of the point that many commentators are making. Given that the Chronicles are basically stories about Aslan and His dealings with the Narnian world, to strip out or water down that component is to gut the stories, making them useless. It would be like making a movie about Muhammed Ali but downplaying that whole boxing thing.
 
Honza said:
The Narnia books were written by a religious man (CS Lewis) and were basically ABOUT religion. They were about how God calls upon us to be with Him and what happens when we are with Him.

The films on the other hand were NOT made by religious people. They do not carry the same message. They are NOT about religion, but rather they are about fantasy adventures.

Do you see the difference?

The books carry reverence of God, but the films do not. The books are holy because they are allegories of peoples relationship with God. The films are just re-creations of the books, but without the same message.
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Honza said:
In this age of PC and general aetheism the film producers felt they could not dare to make religious films.

They would be criticised and lose money. They would not have that MASS appeal to modern youngsters. I'm sure that is what they feared.
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Um....not to be rude here, but did you even pay attention during LWW? If any movie of the 3 out smacks of Christianity, it's that movie. Now if we're talking about Dawn Treader, I wholeheartedly agree that the message of the book is not in the film. But LWW? Come on. And I hate to tell you, but even some Christian people will read the books and NOT see the symbolism in them. I know this from experience, and from talking to people who were Christians and read the books; they were completely ignorant of any symbolism in the stories. But I really think you're ignoring the fact that LWW was the most blatantly Christian out of all 3 movies, and it made close to $800 million while in theaters. That, to me, disproves (and logically contradicts) your second post that I quoted.

Ah yes, and something else I forgot to mention; LWW was marketed to CHURCHES and CHURCH GROUPS. While the marketing resources didn't come directly from Disney or maybe even Walden, there had to be some effort on the part of those companies to encourage churches/church groups to see the film.

Oh, and be careful when you call the books "holy". to me, calling any book but the Bible holy borders on sacrilege. The minute we start calling books "holy" is when the Bible has lost its hold on the word, and the meaning behind the word gets watered down.
 
To be honest I gave up watching both LWW and PC after about an hour into the films because I did not like how they were made. So I did not pay that much attention to the whole films - the impression I got from them put me off.

But speaking about the film LWW and its relgious symbolism - I'm sure the SYMBOLISM is still there. But it somehow lacks the meaning. The meaning has been watered down.

I'm not really suggesting that the films should be "religious". But I do think they should stick to the structure of the books and not change them.

Its the CHARACTER of the books that have been lost. The books are gentle, quiet and inspirational. The films are noisy, brash and tepid.

What makes the books so enjoyable; their "holy" (if you will forgive me for using that word - I use it in the general sense and not in the Bible sense) character, has been watered down.

With the books you get a sense of CS Lewis' INSPIRATION of God. But the films give a different sense of inspiration - one of physical adventure and physical excitement - not spiritual.
 
My education background is ART. I studied art at college. To an artists eye you can see HOW the films emphasis has been changed from the books emphasis.

The whole artistic style is different. Hence the feel is different.

What I'm trying to say is that I wish they had produced the films in a style and character which remains true to the book's style and character.

If you change a story's style and character you end up keeping its skeletal structure but you lose its personality.

Take Dickens for example - people who make films about Dicken's books often try to stay true to the 19th century style and character of those books. Instead of modernising them.

It is okay to re-interpret books in ones own way - but I just wish the films of Narnia had NOT.
 
Honza said:
But speaking about the film LWW and its relgious symbolism - I'm sure the SYMBOLISM is still there. But it somehow lacks the meaning. The meaning has been watered down.
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THIS. It's the small things really. Like the fact that the children all fell into the wardrobe together because they smashed a window and trying not to get caught in the film --- but in the book, they were trying to get away from the tourists who had come to look over the Professor's house. Or that there's a scene where Edmund gets scolded because he goes back for his father's picture and it sets us up to feel sympathy towards him and impatience towards Peter... which tones down Edmund's redemptive arc because the narrator never apologizes for Edmund's behaviour and we are supposed to see his story as a true story of redemption.

It's the little things really. Of all the films, LWW had the most religious symbolism, yes. But that might have more to do with the fact that there were some big symbolic moments that one couldn't excise from the most popular Narnia book without completely changing it - and not to do with the fact that the film-makers were trying to keep to the spirit of C. S. Lewis's stories.



Honza said:
To an artists eye you can see HOW the films emphasis has been changed from the books emphasis.
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I didn't study art but I think I know what you mean. The LWW-film is very much a Campbellian Hero's Journey story - with Peter as Protagonist and Aslan as the Obi-Wan/Mentor. LWW isn't a Hero's Journey's tale... at least not with Aslan as a Mentor guiding the children to eventual victory. The victory is Aslan's and the children are secondary to him. Once Aslan is on the scene, the focus is on him and that's why the narrator follows Lucy and Susan to his death and not the boys in the field of battle. It was almost inevitable that Peter's character will undergo such a radical departure in the PC-film: the seeds were planted in this one. That's not the story Lewis wrote at all.
 
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OK I see this thread has deviated from it's OP a bit not too mention it is the second thread of the same topic as well, I personally think that there is the probability of a fourth film beyond that I cannot tell it gets harder to interpret the ever deepening spiritual message of the books and put them in a secular context. I think the first movie the Lion the witch and the wardrobe rocked and contrary to so many who posted here that the spiritual message was lost from the getgo I beg to differ, my pastor at the time even highly recommended watching the film. And all of the movies have kept at least a minimum of spirituality to them alas not the deep spirituality the books profess.
 
PunkMaister said:
OK I see this thread has deviated from it's OP a bit not too mention it is the second thread of the same topic as well, I personally think that there is the probability of a fourth film beyond that I cannot tell it gets harder to interpret the ever deepening spiritual message of the books and put them in a secular context. I think the first movie the Lion the witch and the wardrobe rocked and contrary to so many who posted here that the spiritual message was lost from the getgo I beg to differ, my pastor at the time even highly recommended watching the film. And all of the movies have kept at least a minimum of spirituality to them alas not the deep spirituality the books profess.
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I agree, and the church campaigns were very prevalent , especially in my area. I believe the idea to make it more like Harry Potter/LOTR --shoving the series in a generic fantasy mold was one of the main reasons that the films moved away from the books and there for became less spiritual. PC was not as spiritual as LWW but the feeling of Aslan's missing presence was felt by the audience which did help bring that message of Faith when there seems no hope. VDT however since it moved so heavily from the book felt so much more heavy-handed and plastic in it's spiritual moral.
 
"To be honest I gave up watching both LWW and PC after about an hour into the films because I did not like how they were made. So I did not pay that much attention to the whole films - the impression I got from them put me off."

So Honza, did you watch LWW and PC or not? If not, why try to analyze them based on a partial viewing?

I agree with moonspinner that the character of Peter was beginning to be ruined with LWW and the hiding from responsibility after breakinbg the window, but I don't see that as a sign of lack of spiritual symbolism. I just saw it as lack of respect to the characters.

Where it counted, they uisually did finally get to the spiritual messages, if only because they couldn't avoud it without completely altering the story. Yes, things do get watered down, but that is the problem with the medium difference.

Even in the books, as has been said, some Christians didn't see the symbolism.

MrBob
 
PunkMaister said:
OK I see this thread has deviated from it's OP a bit not too mention it is the second thread of the same topic as well, I personally think that there is the probability of a fourth film beyond that I cannot tell it gets harder to interpret the ever deepening spiritual message of the books and put them in a secular context. I think the first movie the Lion the witch and the wardrobe rocked and contrary to so many who posted here that the spiritual message was lost from the getgo I beg to differ, my pastor at the time even highly recommended watching the film. And all of the movies have kept at least a minimum of spirituality to them alas not the deep spirituality the books profess.
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Yes, and I'm sorry, but the whole argument of "was the message watered down or not" is purely dependent on the person's point of view/opinion. I personally think Dawn Treader sorely lacked any type of message from the book, yet there are multiple people here who feel very differently about it. (Although my qualms against Dawn Treader is also because it was a poorly made film, not simply the fact that the message of the book wasn't even there). So you can argue the point all you want, but it'll always boil down to one person's point of view versus another.
 
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