No, but I did.
*headdesk* You are so right. I've said that LB should be last a thousand times... I just forgot at the moment. Sorry. Except for the issues of the child actors getting to old to play their parts, LB should be last of all.
The Horse and His Boy
- Thread starter MissReepicheep
- Start date
No, but I did.
*headdesk* You are so right. I've said that LB should be last a thousand times... I just forgot at the moment. Sorry. Except for the issues of the child actors getting to old to play their parts, LB should be last of all.
Aravis Kenobi
New member
The only thing that might be problematic with TLB being last is Will Poulter and whoever they get for Jill. They will clearly be much older by that time. (I guess they coudl always film their parts then edit them in digitally? )
)
MrBob
Well-known member
"Are you suggesting that muslims will make a scene if that's the way the Calormenes are going to be depicted? Because to tell you the truth, Hollywood has been negatively stereotyping middle eastern people/muslims for a long time now, and if they were going to get upset about it, they would have a long time ago."
narniaqueen, I am not saying thyat they will make a scene. I was just suggesting that there is the possibility that they will make a scene. I would hope they understand that the Calormene culture is not based on Islam, but as I said, some people are not sane. I have my hopes, though.
I agree with you that there is no racism in the story. I love the Shasta/Aravis relationship which, as was said, was possibly one of the first interracial romances (eventually) in children's literature. It was also one where the girl always was at least an equal to the boy. In fact, their arguments were part of their romancing each other implying that Aravis never backed down to Cor.
MrBob
narniaqueen, I am not saying thyat they will make a scene. I was just suggesting that there is the possibility that they will make a scene. I would hope they understand that the Calormene culture is not based on Islam, but as I said, some people are not sane. I have my hopes, though.
I agree with you that there is no racism in the story. I love the Shasta/Aravis relationship which, as was said, was possibly one of the first interracial romances (eventually) in children's literature. It was also one where the girl always was at least an equal to the boy. In fact, their arguments were part of their romancing each other implying that Aravis never backed down to Cor.
MrBob
Arvan
New member
Well I think that the Muslims would not be the ones making the scene, but the ACLU and Phillip Pullman.
Here's a question I'd like to put out there to other fans: how would you feel about Cor & Aravis's romance being expanded a bit in a film? Not in a crazy way, but just to have them in love, or almost in love, by the end of their journey. It doesn't really work in children's literature to have a love story, so Lewis just said they quarreled a lot and got married so as to do it more conveniently.
I certainly do not want "love at first sight" from either or both characters, because that's not what Lewis wrote, and I don't want to see them kissing or anything until their wedding. But what do you think?
Here's a question I'd like to put out there to other fans: how would you feel about Cor & Aravis's romance being expanded a bit in a film? Not in a crazy way, but just to have them in love, or almost in love, by the end of their journey. It doesn't really work in children's literature to have a love story, so Lewis just said they quarreled a lot and got married so as to do it more conveniently.
I certainly do not want "love at first sight" from either or both characters, because that's not what Lewis wrote, and I don't want to see them kissing or anything until their wedding. But what do you think?
moonspinner
Member
LOL! Good point.
I think the exact words are: they got so used to quarrelling and making out - oops, I meant making up - that they got married so as to continue doing it more conveniently.
There are like half a dozen double entendres in that sentence alone.
I would love for there to be some hint of sparkage but an out-and-out romance? I don't know. For one, I'm constantly afraid that if they emphasize too much of the romantic aspects in the movie, the filmmakers will balk at the idea of an interracial romance on the big screen and cast Aravis with a White girl.
Then on the other hand, it's the rare scriptwriter that writes a romantic action movie without turning the girl into The Chick. Aravis is co-hero in the story along with Shasta and she shares the protagonist role with him completely, writing down to narrating her own escape story, and having her own separate adventures when they pass through Tashbaan. But present day Hollywood is so incompetent when it comes to feminist and racist issues that I shudder to think what they would do to Aravis if they emphasize the romantic relationship.So sparkage, definitely. After all, I was 13 when I read HHB and I knew somehow that they'd end up together so I'd like to see that hint of something-more on screen. But anything more than that? I don't know. I also would like the kids to be close to their ages in the book 11 (Aravis) and 12 (Shasta).
Interestingly, if there's one thing Calormene culture isn't, it's Muslim. The culture and mannerisms are Oriental, but their religion centers around a Great Big Idol. If the Calormens can be traced to what we would call the Middle East, they would have left there before the dawn of Islam.
Of course, that's a nuance that would escape most Western viewers.
Of course, that's a nuance that would escape most Western viewers.
Arvan
New member
LOL! Good point.
I think the exact words are: they got so used to quarrelling and making out - oops, I meant making up - that they got married so as to continue doing it more conveniently.
*Giggle*
And that's essentially what I would prefer to see. I don't want a typical Hollywood romance at all, nor a big romance of any kind; I want C.S. Lewis's story, but I just think there could be more emphasis on their relationship.I would love for there to be some hint of sparkage but an out-and-out romance? I don't know. For one, I'm constantly afraid that if they emphasize too much of the romantic aspects in the movie, the filmmakers will balk at the idea of an interracial romance on the big screen and cast Aravis with a White girl.
So sparkage, definitely. After all, I was 13 when I read HHB and I knew somehow that they'd end up together so I'd like to see that hint of something-more on screen. But anything more than that? I don't know. I also would like the kids to be close to their ages in the book 11 (Aravis) and 12 (Shasta).
Very true, and I think that people like Phillip Pullman are either ignorant or are willing to overlook these things to give Lewis a bad name. The Calormene religion is very Hindu-esque in my opinion. Their basic culture seems to be, as previously said, a cross between Ottoman Turkish and Indian.
Aravis Kenobi
New member
Does it matter if the Calormen culture isn't Muslim? They don't care if it is or if it isn't, POTW. As long as there's a chance to claim that they've been offended, they'll do it. And of course so will the ACLU (who I affectionately dub the American Communist Litigation Union). Pullman not so much. Aside from Golden Compass a few years back, he hasn't been out in the mainstream much. He's already written his poisonous books, so what more is there for him to say?
And I don't want Aravis and Shasta to be 11/12 if there's a hint of romance in the air. Not only is it creepy, it's also ridiculous to show two children falling in love. Narnia doesn't need to emphasize that part of the modern mindset. 14/15 would be just fine with me, and there should be at least some attraction there (like maybe Han/Leia, but without all the suggestive comments. )
And I don't want Aravis and Shasta to be 11/12 if there's a hint of romance in the air. Not only is it creepy, it's also ridiculous to show two children falling in love. Narnia doesn't need to emphasize that part of the modern mindset. 14/15 would be just fine with me, and there should be at least some attraction there (like maybe Han/Leia, but without all the suggestive comments.
)
No, of course it wouldn't matter to people like Pullman - which was why I made the comment that it was a nuance most wouldn't catch.
I fear that if it does get made, the lure of romantic potential will prove too much for the screenwriters and they'll turn it into some kind of love story on horseback. Heck, look what they did with Caspian and Susan, when there isn't even a hint of that in the book!
I fear that if it does get made, the lure of romantic potential will prove too much for the screenwriters and they'll turn it into some kind of love story on horseback. Heck, look what they did with Caspian and Susan, when there isn't even a hint of that in the book!
moonspinner
Member
I don't want to see pre-teenage kids making out. I just want, like Arkan said, C. S. Lewis's story. Which wasn't a romance. But it still set up ... something between the two that when he concluded that they got married, it wasn't a surprise. Sort of like how - and as much as I hate to use this example, it's the best I can think of - how many readers of Harry Potter could pick up that Ron and Hermione might end up together from the first few books even though the story started when the kids were eleven.
Besides, 'romance' is not all about sexual attraction. Alas that is what American sitcoms and rom-coms have reduced romance to but that is not the case in reality. Equally important elements of romance are loyalty and shared intense experiences and the ability to complement each other. Also doing things like jumping off a horse running at break neck speed to face down a lion without a weapon can be construed as romantic without being creepy at all.
Aravis Kenobi
New member
Considering the fact that in LWW, the children weren't cast close to the ages in the book, they probably won't do that with any of the other films, which is just fine. I don't see how age is a big issue when you look at the possibility of the storyline being screwed up.
And not to mention, these kids' ages are NOT set in stone, nor are they bluntly mentioned. Lewis did not say, "Shasta was 12 years old during the Golden Age". In fact, aside from assumption, you can only guess the kids' ages and not know for sure. So there's obvious room for liberties because Lewis didn't tell us exactly how old these kids were, and therefore, there should be no issue if they make them a little older.
And not to mention, these kids' ages are NOT set in stone, nor are they bluntly mentioned. Lewis did not say, "Shasta was 12 years old during the Golden Age". In fact, aside from assumption, you can only guess the kids' ages and not know for sure. So there's obvious room for liberties because Lewis didn't tell us exactly how old these kids were, and therefore, there should be no issue if they make them a little older.
Pardine
Active member
I think that's a result of a sneaky move by CS Lewis. An attempt to make his books all reachable. In fact, we don't even know that Shasta was a child. Remember, he was a slave, and in the 1900s or so (in Lewis' time) , it was common for slaves or the working class to be referred to as "boy." You see it in literature regarding black slaves written about that time, and you also see it in social structures involving male servants during that time.
It might have just been a colloquialism of Lewis to name the book "The Horse And His Boy"
And Aravis referred to her brother as being "but a child..."
So, it's entirely possible that Shasta and Aravis were nearing adulthood at the time of their run.
It might have just been a colloquialism of Lewis to name the book "The Horse And His Boy"
And Aravis referred to her brother as being "but a child..."
So, it's entirely possible that Shasta and Aravis were nearing adulthood at the time of their run.
Except that you've got the exchange between Shasta and Aravis when she's relating her story where he says that she's far too young to be married, and guesses that she's about his age. Bree (rudely) corrects him by pointing out that the Tarkaan families routinely marry "at that age" - implying that she was indeed young, but not too young to be committed to marriage. My guess has always been that they were in the 12-13 year range.
Pardine
Active member
Hmm. Quite true. I wonder what the average age of marriage was in Britain in the 1950s..
You're probably right. They were likely between 8 - 15.
Icewolfer93
New member
Claws of Aslan...
I wonder how they might go about the scene where Aslan digs his claws into Aravis' back. It's a disturbing yet beautiful scene when you realize its signifigance.
I love this book in general too. I really hope they get to a movie adaption. For me I always prefer they adhere to the books relatively close, but at the same time things can be introduced separate from the book that compliment it artistically very well. So I don't mind if they take some liberties with it.
I wonder how they might go about the scene where Aslan digs his claws into Aravis' back. It's a disturbing yet beautiful scene when you realize its signifigance.
I love this book in general too. I really hope they get to a movie adaption. For me I always prefer they adhere to the books relatively close, but at the same time things can be introduced separate from the book that compliment it artistically very well. So I don't mind if they take some liberties with it.
Aravis Kenobi
New member
They may approach the clawing of Aravis' back the same way they did Eustace's undragoning. It's still there, but in a different way...though I don't know how they'd go about changing that. For me, that's one part that I don't mind if it's changed in some way; the only part I really want to see adapted faithfully is all of chapter 11. For me, that will be the deal breaker on that movie if it's made.
Arvan
New member
I agree completely.I don't want Aravis and Shasta to be 11/12 if there's a hint of romance in the air. Not only is it creepy, it's also ridiculous to show two children falling in love. Narnia doesn't need to emphasize that part of the modern mindset. 14/15 would be just fine with me, and there should be at least some attraction there (like maybe Han/Leia, but without all the suggestive comments.
Arkan? Who's Arkan???
Very true. Things like that don't end up in romances very much... The "romance" if you could really call it that, between Cor and Aravis is in a rare style, more about going from rivals to close friends, to eventually being married. I do hope they make Shasta a little heroic (not a show-off) and not like an idiot when he "scares away" the lion. Though I don't have a clue how they'd do that without changing a lot...
Greensawmill
New member
Yes-- "the Unwelcome Traveler" is without parallel in all of Lewis' creations. The Last Battle is my favorite of the books as a whole, but this scene, this chapter ranks among my top two favorite moments in all Narnia.
Arvan
New member
I always saw Aravis at fourteen. She's getting married. Fourteen is young for marriage, but thirteen disturbs me! Fifteen is a bit old for Narnia's main characters. They're usually younger than that, except perhaps in The Last Battle.
moonspinner
Member
That's one of the things that I am really afraid they will mess up. It's a very important moment, both for plot and character momentum. It's because of Aravis's injury that Shasta has to take the rest of the journey alone and they get separated until he turns up again as Prince Cor. It's also a very important Aslan moment because until The Last Battle, it's the scariest Aslan moment we get from the books. Up until then, apart from mild scolding, Aslan has never turned his wrath on one of his 'chosen ones'. I have a feeling though, that the filmmakers would balk at the idea of showing the "not-safe" side of Aslan.
Arkan? Who's Arkan???
Oops! I'm Sorry!
Aravis Kenobi, Even though the kids's ages are not stated, I thought it was pretty clear from Shasta's "You're not grown up... I don't think you're as old [as I am]. How can you be getting married at your age" is supposed to indicate that the kids were still kids. I don't know what made me fix on pre-adolescent age. Maybe the way Shasta cried with so little inhibition? It struck me as something a young child would do not a teenage boy.
I think that (that it should be disturbing) is the idea. If you read on Child Marriages in Wikipedia, you will see that in some cultures, girls as young as eight years of age are considered to be of marriageable age in this 21st Century.