That makes sense. It would clear up confusion in the audience to show the scene, and then sum the rest up later. Flashbacks are often hard to follow... I'm kind of blonde, so they usually just confuse me. 
The Horse and His Boy
- Thread starter MissReepicheep
- Start date
I think starting the movie with the birth of Cor and Corin, and taking advantage of that to explain how Archenland relates to Narnia, would be the sensible way to do it. It needn't even spoil the "surprise" later in the story when Cor's true identity is revealed: you could just provide the backstory and then cut to Shasta mending a fishing net. You could, maybe, take the base story as far as Lord Bar fleeing on the ship and King Lune giving chase, and cut it there. The remainder of that portion of the story could be filled in where it turns up in the book: where Arsheesh explains the boy's presence to Anradrin. I think that would be a reasonable flashback.
On the other hand, you could handle the backstory in the normal flow of the tale, like Lewis does. I think that wouldn't be too much, and it would keep the surprise element of Cor/Shasta's background. But then, given the obvious fan base, I don't think anyone much is going to be surprised by how things turn out.
On the other hand, you could handle the backstory in the normal flow of the tale, like Lewis does. I think that wouldn't be too much, and it would keep the surprise element of Cor/Shasta's background. But then, given the obvious fan base, I don't think anyone much is going to be surprised by how things turn out.
LOL! I'm picking on you on purpose cause I like you, you know that?
Besides you're almost always on the attacking side, so there. 
Arvan
New member
If you tell the audience the baby is a prince or important character, and then cut to Shasta, they often assume it's the same person grown up. I think two small flashbacks are needed in this film: one for when Arsheesh tells the story of finding Shasta and one for when Cor talks about his kidnapping.
Yes. This sort of plot has been in lots of books and movies in the past, so moviegoers can figure things out without a whole lot of help.
I said moviegoers...Well, filmmakers never look to us for help. Why on earth would they give the fans what they wanted??? Barring when we announced Suspian for April Fool's. Go figure.
Anyway, I'm sure they can figure out how to do it, if that film ever comes (please, please!). Just overreacting.
But actually, the moviemakers did EXACTLY what I thought they ought to do to explain Susan and Peter's absence in VDT. My sister and I had discussed this numerous times, saying they ought to have Susan writing a letter to Edmund and Lucy, and that's what they did!
The beginning of VDT absolutely FLABBERGASTED me... it was almost EXACTLY what I thought it should be. The intro of Eustace was excellent, as was the explanation of the older Pevensie's absence and the entry into Narnia.
Well, this is kinda off topic...
I just wanted to say that.
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Arvan
New member
Ah, sorry, thought you said moviemakers. You're right, moviegoers should be able to figure it out. But I meant what I said. If future Narnia directors/producers/writers read this thread, they'll most likely take only bad ideas, if any. That's what they do!
And I agree about the beginning of VDT. Up to the Lone Islands, it was almost perfect! If they do HHB, I hope the entire thing is like that: almost like reading the book, yet still different.
You're right, moviegoers should be able to figure it out. But I meant what I said. If future Narnia directors/producers/writers read this thread, they'll most likely take only bad ideas, if any. That's what they do! And I agree about the beginning of VDT. Up to the Lone Islands, it was almost perfect! If they do HHB, I hope the entire thing is like that: almost like reading the book, yet still different.
LOL! I agree!
I was glad that the moviemakers didn't borrow any ideas from the 'give the moviemakers silly ideas' thread that BK made.
Yes, that's what I hope HHB is like... like reading the book on screen.
I was glad that the moviemakers didn't borrow any ideas from the 'give the moviemakers silly ideas' thread that BK made.
Yes, that's what I hope HHB is like... like reading the book on screen.
moonspinner
Member
I'm iffy about a prologue that clues in the audience about Cor's origin. Shasta being an Archenland prince (and future King) is a big twist ending. The movies are watched by the fans, true, but there are a lot of movie goers who haven't read the books and it'd be a shame to spoil the story for them. If they must start with a flashback, then I suggest that they show the ship battle between Bar and Lune and the final defeat of Bar but without alluding to the reason for the battle. They could allude that Bar had 'something' that belonged to the King, but not that it was his son or even a person.
That might work. I agree that the revelation of Shasta's true identity is a big twist in the story, but face it: most of the people going to see the film will have read the book, and will know how things turn out. But I agree that if there's any way to keep the surprise, it should be kept.
Arvan
New member
Brilliant!
Here's another question: should Cor and Corin be played by twins, or should they use the same actor for both?
The problem with twins is that it would be difficult to find two British twins of the right age who can act.
I was just wondering that! I think it would be good to have two different people playing the roles, but it would indeed be difficult to find identical people the right age and appearance who actually have the right acting abilities.
Still, there has always been something weird to me about one actor playing two identical characters.
TimmyofOz
Well-known member
I have always loved THHB and I hope they make a movie out of it. But to cut it down to a 2 hour movie will be hard. They can cut down on Aravis' story at the start and I can see ways to not include the part of the hermit, and just have everyone make it to King Lune's castle except Shasta. I love Shasta and the cat but they probably will need to cut that and make Aravis' stay in Tashbaan shorter. Rabadash's judgement will need to be shorted. Corin I would drop out completely except he is needed somewhere so that Shasta can me seen as his brother. Marriage, romance and growing up are a big part of the story and need to be the focus.
I imagine that they'll leave out the hermit. After all, watching the battle through his pool simply wouldn't be cinematic. He would be an easy character to leave out, and the movie might be better off if he wasn't included.
Please do not be angry, AK, PotW, etc. I am a book purist, but sometimes changes are necessary when adapting a book to a screenplay. Of course, I would be glad to have him in the movie if that would work. But if they do things another way, I won't fly off the handle.
Arvan
New member
You are not a book purist. Don't get mad at me, but you just aren't. If you were, you would have hated the VDT film, because it was anything but "pure". You're like me. You understand that things aren't always the same in film and books, but you like things to be similar when adapted.
That said, I am shocked that people would want him gone completely; he is such a good character. And if they leave him out, when does Aslan attack Aravis? on the way to Anvard? and explain how Cor ends up being in Narnia instead of Anvard while everyone else does. If you take out the Hermit, you have to make up for it with a lot of major changes which would make me very upset.
The reason I didn't boycott VDT after seeing it or spit on the movie theater's exit (just kidding, I wouldn't actually do that) is that VDT is not my favorite of the Chronicles. It's probably sixth. But HHB is my favorite, except perhaps for The Last Battle. If they did the kind of things they did to VDT I'd be mortified.
My suggestions: keep the Hermit. He's a fascinating character. Obviously, don't show the battle from his point of view. Show it from the point of view of Cor, Corin, and the Pevensies, like the battle in LWW. Practically all we know about the Battle of Beruna in the book is what Peter tells us, not the narrator.
Timmy, you seem to want half of the important events of the book cut out. I'd rather they cut out unnecessary dialogue and use flashbacks and a prologue where needed. (I like the idea of Lord Bar talking about baby Cor as an important object, but with no mention of his being a child.) We don't need to see all of Bree's riding lessons, nor do we need to see Shasta's being sore. That's fine in the book but isn't going to do much for the plot line beyond being realistic. We don't need to make the journey to Tashbaan or through the Great Desert long, but with good cinematography and editing, they can give the impression of days or weeks of travel in less than a minute. The night among the tombs can be shortened too. I find that when you cut out Lewis' marvelous description and personal thoughts, you speed up the story a lot. Don't forget how short a book this is when compared to, say, The Fellowship of the Ring.
I think that some of the dialogue should be semi-drastically changed to get the story going. (Bree telling Shasta he can talk for instance, doesn't need to include his history, which he can tell to Hwin and Aravis later.) But I don't want to lose all the great lines given to Aslan and the Hermit to keep the movie short. Make the movie two and a half hours or so, for heaven's sake. It's a fairly short children's book, not Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows!
That said, I am shocked that people would want him gone completely; he is such a good character. And if they leave him out, when does Aslan attack Aravis? on the way to Anvard? and explain how Cor ends up being in Narnia instead of Anvard while everyone else does. If you take out the Hermit, you have to make up for it with a lot of major changes which would make me very upset.
The reason I didn't boycott VDT after seeing it or spit on the movie theater's exit (just kidding, I wouldn't actually do that) is that VDT is not my favorite of the Chronicles. It's probably sixth. But HHB is my favorite, except perhaps for The Last Battle. If they did the kind of things they did to VDT I'd be mortified.
My suggestions: keep the Hermit. He's a fascinating character. Obviously, don't show the battle from his point of view. Show it from the point of view of Cor, Corin, and the Pevensies, like the battle in LWW. Practically all we know about the Battle of Beruna in the book is what Peter tells us, not the narrator.
Timmy, you seem to want half of the important events of the book cut out. I'd rather they cut out unnecessary dialogue and use flashbacks and a prologue where needed. (I like the idea of Lord Bar talking about baby Cor as an important object, but with no mention of his being a child.) We don't need to see all of Bree's riding lessons, nor do we need to see Shasta's being sore. That's fine in the book but isn't going to do much for the plot line beyond being realistic. We don't need to make the journey to Tashbaan or through the Great Desert long, but with good cinematography and editing, they can give the impression of days or weeks of travel in less than a minute. The night among the tombs can be shortened too. I find that when you cut out Lewis' marvelous description and personal thoughts, you speed up the story a lot. Don't forget how short a book this is when compared to, say, The Fellowship of the Ring.
I think that some of the dialogue should be semi-drastically changed to get the story going. (Bree telling Shasta he can talk for instance, doesn't need to include his history, which he can tell to Hwin and Aravis later.) But I don't want to lose all the great lines given to Aslan and the Hermit to keep the movie short. Make the movie two and a half hours or so, for heaven's sake. It's a fairly short children's book, not Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows!
I'm not mad. After all, you're probably right that I am not a book purist. I was at one time, but then PC ruined me; I'm pathetically eager to take whatever good I can get.
Yes, the hermit would be good to keep. I guess I feel that if the moviemakers included him, that he would become a cluttering character, and that they wouldn't do him properly. But I'd like him to be there, as long as he won't be ruined.
I consider myself a "book purist", but that doesn't mean I don't recognize that modifications have to be made to a story to adapt it from page to screen. Heck, adaptations need to be made to a story to adapt it from verse to prose, because it's a different medium.
But I'm not so much a "book purist" as I am a "Narnia fanatic", which means I have a passion for the core themes and ideas behind the stories. That's why I objected fiercely to the changes made to Caspian, because they went far beyond just adapting the story to the screen: they violated several core themes of the story. With Dawn Treader they were much more careful to preserve the themes, even though the events were somewhat changed. I even think that at points the movie improved on the book, as I explain in this thread.
Thus I'm not as concerned about how they manage precise events as how they deal with the themes. I think it'd be a shame if they dropped the hermit, but how much effect that would have would depend on what they did with the story to that point. For example, in Dawn Treader many were concerned about the fact that the boat ride across the Silver Sea had Caspian in the boat. But that was not as much an issue because in the film they didn't have Caspian's attempt to abdicate and his being corrected by the crew and Aslan. Had they retained that, Caspian being in the boat would have been disobedience, but since they didn't, it wasn't that big an issue.
But I'm not so much a "book purist" as I am a "Narnia fanatic", which means I have a passion for the core themes and ideas behind the stories. That's why I objected fiercely to the changes made to Caspian, because they went far beyond just adapting the story to the screen: they violated several core themes of the story. With Dawn Treader they were much more careful to preserve the themes, even though the events were somewhat changed. I even think that at points the movie improved on the book, as I explain in this thread.
Thus I'm not as concerned about how they manage precise events as how they deal with the themes. I think it'd be a shame if they dropped the hermit, but how much effect that would have would depend on what they did with the story to that point. For example, in Dawn Treader many were concerned about the fact that the boat ride across the Silver Sea had Caspian in the boat. But that was not as much an issue because in the film they didn't have Caspian's attempt to abdicate and his being corrected by the crew and Aslan. Had they retained that, Caspian being in the boat would have been disobedience, but since they didn't, it wasn't that big an issue.
I care very much that the core themes be preserved. In VDT, all the core themes were displayed, and none of the characters were mutilated. There are some changes that I don't really like, but I can reconcile myself to them because they kept what really mattered.
I'd like the hermit to be in HHB, sure, but I'd rather have him absent than have a half-baked job.
I'd like the hermit to be in HHB, sure, but I'd rather have him absent than have a half-baked job.
Arvan
New member
Well, I am also a Narnia Fanatic. I want the themes of the book to carry through into the film. (I wouldn't say they actually did that in VDT. When I read it, I couldn't see much about temptation, but rather redemption. Barely saw that in the film.) I also want the story to actually come through. Think of the Chronicles as segments of the history of Narnia, which they are, after all. Now, when you make a historical film, you usually (not always, unfortunately) want to make sure you follow the facts about the events and people in your film. (Peter wasn't like that; he wouldn't say that. There wasn't a romance between Susan and Caspian. There was never any Green Mist in Narnia... etc.) Don't you think that the themes written by Jack would go well with the story written by Jack? I got the impression watching VDT that the filmmakers tricked Doug Gresham into thinking that because the "themes were there", they could change what they wanted, except for a certain line of Aslan's at the end. They seem to have little respect for the source material: Michael Apted made that pretty clear with some things he said.
Okay, we're starting to turn this into a VDT thread. Again, I think. Sorry.
So with the Hermit, a way to keep from cluttering is to keep following Shasta to Lune's hunting party and Rabadash's passing. Then cut from Shasta's travel straight to Aravis talking to the Hermit about the cuts on her back and the existence of Luck. Cut back to Shasta traveling into Narnia up to Preparations for battle, compressing the dwarfs and some of the waiting before the battle. Cut to the Hermit with the others around the pool. Have him say a line like "It is beginning." and cut to the siege of the castle and then the Narnians' charge. Speeds things up a bit without taking away the original story.
Okay, we're starting to turn this into a VDT thread. Again, I think. Sorry.
So with the Hermit, a way to keep from cluttering is to keep following Shasta to Lune's hunting party and Rabadash's passing. Then cut from Shasta's travel straight to Aravis talking to the Hermit about the cuts on her back and the existence of Luck. Cut back to Shasta traveling into Narnia up to Preparations for battle, compressing the dwarfs and some of the waiting before the battle. Cut to the Hermit with the others around the pool. Have him say a line like "It is beginning." and cut to the siege of the castle and then the Narnians' charge. Speeds things up a bit without taking away the original story.