The movie Avatar from a Chrsitian perspective, good bad what? discuss!!!

PunkMaister

PunkMaister

New member
I'm shocked that this movie has not even been discussed in this board. So I'll start, from our Christian perspective is this movie, good? Bad? What?
 
When I was in law school for one year, I learned the distinction between points of law and points of fact. It would be a point of law, for instance, to say, "Making pirate copies of movies is stealing." It would be a point of fact to say (correctly or incorrectly), "Ron Kaske made fifteen pirate copies of the latest Star Trek movie on January fifth."

As a point of moral law, it is perfectly true and right to say that exploiting and terrorizing and murdering innocent indigenous people out of utterly selfish motives, is evil. But the makers of Avatar are also trying to make their audience believe a claimed point of FACT: that the United States in particular is especially, exceptionally, extraordinarily, outstandingly, supremely prone to such evils. Anyone with a knowledge of real history knows this to be false; therefore, the makers of Avatar are vigorously promoting a falsehood.
 
Copperfox said:
When I was in law school for one year, I learned the distinction between points of law and points of fact. It would be a point of law, for instance, to say, "Making pirate copies of movies is stealing." It would be a point of fact to say (correctly or incorrectly), "Ron Kaske made fifteen pirate copies of the latest Star Trek movie on January fifth."

As a point of moral law, it is perfectly true and right to say that exploiting and terrorizing and murdering innocent indigenous people out of utterly selfish motives, is evil. But the makers of Avatar are also trying to make their audience believe a claimed point of FACT: that the United States in particular is especially, exceptionally, extraordinarily, outstandingly, supremely prone to such evils. Anyone with a knowledge of real history knows this to be false; therefore, the makers of Avatar are vigorously promoting a falsehood.
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OK this is interesting! I saw the movie myself and I never saw that it was the U.S that was being represented there at all! It was a corporation with hired mercenaries which used to be Marines but they were no longer in the armed forces. I never saw a US Flag anywhere in fact for all we know the U.S may not even exist anymore in that bleak future.
 
They didn't need to be displaying an American flag. The whole nature and feel of the evil exploiters was intended to be recognized by the audience as reflecting the United States. I wouldn't say this if Avatar were a unique and isolated phenomenon; but it is merely part of a decades-long pattern of America-bashing by spoiled show-business brats who bite the civilization that feeds them. This reaches at least as far back as Doctor Strangelove, made some forty years ago, in which Americans were shown as crazed warmongers in contrast to "reasonable" Soviets. And then there was the twelve-year TV series "M*A*S*H," in which the ONLY way any person could be morally good was by disapproving of any and all armed resistance to a Communist conquest of South Korea.

But if I were forced to try to find SOMETHING in this new movie which WASN'T simply about America-bashing, I would say that the plot device of humans assuming nonhuman identities parallels what the Apostle Paul said about being a Jew to the Jews and a Greek to the Greeks. The Christian should always look for ways (without abandoning the gospel) to understand and sympathize with persons from radically different backgrounds. If you look in the Lamp-Post section, you can see my new thread, "Christian Activity In Asia," which is about exactly this theme.
 
Funny that I did not nor I get that impression no matter how hard I try! I do see parallels between what happened to their "hometree" and 9/11 though. I also see parallels between RDA and the Telmarines in Narnia in the PC movie as well in which they had almost driven the Narnians to extiction or so they tgought and in the most dire moment Aslan comes to the rescue, just as the Eywa of the Na'vi does in AVATAR, the Narnians where far more forgiving though as they allowed the Telmarines to stay as long as they did so in peace where as the Na'vi kicked off all humans regardless...
 
ok... I support Copperfox in the point that they tried to make the US as the evil, at least that was what I caught!, and from the point of a foreigner I did saw the US as the bad guy, well I actually see that in many movies (but that's another subject) my father says to me that if movies allow people to see that kind of evil what could actually exist in reality, I know that not everyone is evil at that point, but it makes me think if they could actually reach it.
 
I do not see the US represented at all in 'Avatar'. Instead, I saw rampant corporate greed. Point of fact: The US committed some pretty bad atrocities driving the Native Americans from much of their land. Point of fact, virtually every country in the world has been guilty of this kind of rampant imperialism at some time in their history. Corporate greed also knows no boundaries, and can be found all over the world.

In China, this movie has local people in some districts rebelling against mining companies that are taking over their land,

I saw something in 'Avatar' that is much more keeping with my beliefs. I saw a people living in harmony with the animals and plants in their world. The Na'vi thoroughly understood 'the circle of life', I got really good 'vibes' from this symbiotic relationship, and the purity of the Na'vi's existence. In fact, 'Avatar' goes down as one of the very best films I have ever seen. (No, I haven't seen it in 3D. 3D doesn't work very well with my split vision.)

That said, there is a definite Pagan/earth worship message in this film that the discerning must recognize. Their 'spirituality' seemed confined to the vast network of trees (and maybe animals) on their planet. We all know that our Lord's 'network' (if you want to think of it that way) is far more vast than anything that existed in their world.

I would love to have a 'connnector tassel' like the Na'vi and all higher animals had on Pandora. I could just imagine 'plugging in' to Kenya or our new liger(!!) and enjoying 'being one' with one another. I would also try to 'connect' to a Thanator (The big black carnivore) like was done near the end of the film, and be friends with it. And of course, in their limited spirituality, I could connect to Hobbs (if he had existed there) by just visiting a glowing white tree.

It would be fun to set up a Pandoran type world as a science fiction 'universe'. It has real possibilities for story ideas, etc.
 
The claims that Avatar is anti American from some people are ridiculously stupid.

It was a portrayal of the military, there were no American flags.

Anyway the Army invading the Navi was very similar to how colonists to America drove the Indians (or Native American's) out.

The army may have been American, but the point wasnt to show that the US was evil. It was to show that the greed of humanity in general is evil. If Cameron wanted to portray the US as evil he would have had them attacking another country IN OUR WORLD and have portrayed the other country as very sympathetic.

Instead he wanted to use an example of how some humans would respond to greed in an alien world.

And he didnt even portray the military as evil though. Yeah what they were doing was wrong, but they were trying to save their planet.
 
I'm european and I just watched Avatar but it didn't give me the impression the baddies represented the US at all. It could have been any country. But because the main language was english people who have not seen the movie easily take this as an anti-US movie.

Was I impressed with the movie itself? Yes and no. The storyline was okay but unlike others it didn't give me a LOTR feeling. The movie itself was a bit cheesy to me. Same story, and no surprises. Bad guys attack, good guys win. So far so good. It was worth to watch but definitely not one of my personal fav movies ever. But I loved every part of the Na'vi and Jake riding the most feared animal was totally awesome.
 
Not Anti-American, but almost definitely Anti-military. We went to the Middle East for oil 50+ years ago. The circumstances have changed. They now have nuclear weapons. What are we supposed to do? Sit around and wait for the Iranian government to blow everyone up?

What I DESPISED about the film was not the weak plot (really, seriously, it was POCAHONTAS DANCES WITH SMURFS IN FERN GULLY. I do NOT care what anyone else says), BUT the fact that it went the traditional Hollywood route of almost OPENLY BASHING THE U.S. MILITARY. It's a shame. Yes, I know there's problems with any institution set up by...oh, human beings in general...but I am SICK AND TIRED of stupid rich people who sit around in their mansions and win awards for looking pretty and acting pretty and being dumb and pushing false political agendas and still think that they know anything about the real world. GET OVER YOURSELVES. They need to stop portraying the U.S. Military is evil and give those poor soldiers the respect they deserve. How many of those Hollywoodites really know what's going on in the "War on Terror"? For goodness' sakes, less than half of the NORMAL general public know what's actually going on b/c we're subjected to skewed information spat at us through televisions, so how are people stuck in their own little fantasy worlds in Southern California supposed to know any more than we do?

THAT was what I got out of Avatar. We are in the Middle East SOLELY for oil and the military is an evil institution that just likes to destroy people for the sake of war itself. Was the movie really about defending the innocent and vulnerable? About "connecting with nature" and spirituality? About some dumb romantic subplot? NO. It was an excuse for James Cameron to once again project his skewed political views on the world and reap money off of it just because of the special effects. I cannot believe I spent $15 to see such a disgrace.
 
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I am one of the last 12 people on earth who did not see Avatar yet, but I am quite interested in your review here, Alambil. I had not heard that it was symbolic of the Middle East, but that raises a whole new set of questions, considering that the Middle East is a very poorly run region where millions truggle along in poverty and some few thousands are fantastically rich because of the oil ...
 
inkspot said:
I am one of the last 12 people on earth who did not see Avatar yet, but I am quite interested in your review here, Alambil. I had not heard that it was symbolic of the Middle East, but that raises a whole new set of questions, considering that the Middle East is a very poorly run region where millions truggle along in poverty and some few thousands are fantastically rich because of the oil ...
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Oh, the entire thing is about the Middle East and oil. It surprises me that so many people can't see that b/c Cameron's political views pretty much overwhelmed the entire movie. It made me sick.

And I'm not going to deny the fact that there are people who are fantastically rich b/c of oil BUT THAT IS NOT THE SOLE REASON WHY WE ARE OVER THERE. Do you honestly think individual soldiers join the military because they want to destroy people for selfish purposes? One of my teachers in high school has a brother who is a sniper in Iraq (or he was, when I was in hs, I don't know if he's still over there). And what she said was quite an eye-opener--the American snipers are pretty much the only things standing in the way of the radical extremists wanting to bomb everything, in particular, SCHOOLS and HOSPITALS. THEY WOULD SACRIFICE THE MOST VULNERABLE of their OWN population (not that the U.S. and Europe don't already do that by other means, but that's another issue) were the soldiers not there. If there were no U.S. soldiers, then the civilian death rates would be multiple times what they already are. It's almost like another Rwanda.

And that's not something you see on the news or in any form of media.

And honestly, I think it's a tragedy that the military has to be subjected to such disrespect. There's a guy in my philosophy class who was over there for a year, and said that it's so hot that during the day they can't do anything except try to sleep--but they can't even do that b/c of the heat. And then there's the people who come back with serious brain damage (who don't even get enough medical support in the first place), and have wives and children who now have to take care of them and find some kind of way to pay for the expenses. They suspend their entire lives to go out into the middle of the godforsaken desert where they could get injured, killed, go missing, while the civilians are cowering in fear not because of their presence, but because of the evils done by their own senseless countrymen.

And Hollywood still has the gall to think that either none of those things exist as reality or that they don't really matter.
 
@ Alambil and Tarvis:


I got to tell you I cannot believe someone would have the audacity of comparing ruthless mercenaries to actual U.S military servicemen. I never got the sense that that is what was happening and again to harbor such a thought its unconscionable.

My brother did 2 tours in that region and I can categorically tell you that at no point felt hat they were bashing the armed forces since the mercs in the movie behave more like Somali or Nigerian death Squads than service men, seriously the only thing missing was for them to go around brandishing machetes.
 
Alambil, when I spoke of the mismanagment of the Middle East and the oil wealth vs. the populace's poverty, I wasn't speaking of Iraq -- I was thinking of Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen and others that are ruled by fabulously wealthy sheiks while the rest of the country lives harsh lives of poverty under oppressive Islamic laws. This is what I think of when I think of the Middle East, and I was surprised that Cameron would equate nirvana with that scenario! But I see what you are saying: you believe the film is about the war in Iraq?

But in the film (again, I didn't see it), the land that's invaded is a beautiful and perfect place in complete eco-balance right? That is a far, far cry from anywhere in the Middle East, let alone Iraq.

Others have seen the symbolism as the plundering of the Native American culture and land back in the day. I was just curious how you had focused on the Middle East instead. It seems our perfidy knows no time constraints.
 
Well, I can't tell what Cameron considers to be the "Middle East"--the whole thing is a skewed view of reality anyway, so of course it isn't going to make exact sense...

Basically, the film is just bothersome and an excuse for special effects and random political commentary that doesn't make sense. Not worth the time or money :/
 
PunkMaister said:
@ Alambil and Tarvis:


I got to tell you I cannot believe someone would have the audacity of comparing ruthless mercenaries to actual U.S military servicemen. I never got the sense that that is what was happening and again to harbor such a thought its unconscionable.

My brother did 2 tours in that region and I can categorically tell you that at no point felt hat they were bashing the armed forces since the mercs in the movie behave more like Somali or Nigerian death Squads than service men, seriously the only thing missing was for them to go around brandishing machetes.
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I thought they were using that imagery to make the U.S. military look as if it was like the Somali or Nigerian death squads, which it's not, so that's why I was so upset about it
 
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