West vs East.

Copperfox said:
Lewis' early book "The Pilgrim's Regress," playing upon the awareness of a round Earth, showed a blessed land being potentially reachable from both directions. So later, when he wrote the Chronicles of Narnia, perhaps he put Aslan's Country to the east _because_ Tolkien had placed it to the west; he could have been saying that he was approaching the same goal as Tolkien from a different direction.

I do know that Lewis liked the idea of linking stories.
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Narnia and it's surrounding lands are all on an East coastline and Aslan's Country is in the East, whereas Tolkien's Middle-earth is on a West coastline and the Blessed Realm is in the West. Both maps of Narnia and Middle-earth have blank spaces inland to the West and East respectively. I agree with you, Copperfox, that Lewis wanted to link the stories and I have read that Lewis and Tolkien set out to create a mythology for England and that they probably worked together at times on this project. Thus, came into existence Narnia and Middle-earth.
Lewis chose the East because he wanted to create a world that connected with Tolkien's in a sense that he was writing about the East and Tolkien was writing about the West and both world's meet at the maps edges and the Blessed Realm/ Aslan's Country. This East/ West opposition therefore creates a full world which can be seen to be a mythological or fictional representation of our own, and the Blessed Realm/ Aslan's Country are the same place because the Earth is round (even if Narnia is not). Therefore they are both saying together that God is only found one way (despite the differences in orientation, East or West), there is only one God, and perhaps no matter where you live, there is only one way to find Him.
 
There was a preacher I heard once who said that Hell was in a generally westerly direction, meaning to the west. Now I don't know where he got this from as I haven't seen anything in the Bible or in any religious writing a reference to this. It was a long time ago, so I don't remember what else he said and if he backed it up. Anyone knows anything about this? Or was he crazy? lol

Anyway, how about this part of the lyrics in Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven? It's sort of haunting, don't you think?

There's a feeling I get
When I look to the west
And my spirit is crying
For leaving


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I have no idea where people get these concepts. Hell in a westerly direction? Wow.

The allusion in Stairway to Heaven was certainly to Tolkien's mythology. Jimmy Paige was a huge Tolkien fan, and it's reflected in a lot of the songs Zeppelin did.
 
Yeah, it does like a crazy concept. Maybe its conceived from the favorable references in the Bible about the east.
The star that led the wise men to Jesus was in the east and references to Jesus returning from that direction 'As lightening shineth out of the east'...I don't know. Even with that said it's still too far fetched.
 
The language in Matthew's Gospel for the star's direction is ambiguous. All it says about it was that it was seen "in the East". Whether that means the star was east of the viewing position, or that the viewers were in the east when they saw it, is unclear. The Gospel states that they saw the star above Bethlehem after leaving Jerusalem, but that doesn't imply (as popular legend has inferred) that it guided them the whole way. The astrology of the time wouldn't have necessitated it being eastward to convey the message it did; i.e. that the King of the Jews was born.
 
PrinceOfTheWest said:
I have no idea where people get these concepts. Hell in a westerly direction? Wow.

The allusion in Stairway to Heaven was certainly to Tolkien's mythology. Jimmy Paige was a huge Tolkien fan, and it's reflected in a lot of the songs Zeppelin did.
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Yes, that was a really crazy idea about Hell in a westerly direction. I don't know where that man got it from.

And now I have a better understanding of Zeppelin songs. Thanks for telling about Jimmy Paige.
 
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Sven-El said:
Something interesting I noted about Voyage of the Dawn treader, was the ending point of the journey. Typically in such literature( such as The Odyessey, The Aineid, or the Voyage fo St. Brendan) the characters travel from East to West. Even in LOTR the Isles of the Blessed are located in the west.

The West invoked mystery and adventure, and yet in VOTD, they go from West to East and there is just as much mystery and adventure.

Interstingly enough, of any of the Pevenises, it is Susan who goes west ( to America) and for all intense and purpsoes that begins her spiritual downfall.

So what reasons do you all think that lLwis would choose to send his cahractes East as appsoed to west? Certainly it is different.

My theories:

1.The sun rises in the East.

2. Every major religious beleif started in the East. Despite its place in Western society, Christianity ( along with Judaisim) started in the Middle-East, not England or France.

3. COmpared to England, all major seats of western civilization and thought ( Athens, Rome, Jerusalem,) would be in the east.
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Aren't most people buried with their heads facing a certain direction? There's something related to the 2nd coming of Christ and the position most people are buried in, I think. I might be wrong, but I've never honestly thought about it. (Like the feet are pointed East, the head is pointed West or something like that).

Besides, wouldn't Hell be south since it's going down? :p
 
I also heard another preacher who said that the Throne of God was to the North!!! LoL! Is there any truth to this too? Man, if I didn't have my heart and my head in the right place, the preachers I've heard would have driven me to madness, I tell you!!!
 
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Aravis Kenobi said:
Aren't most people buried with their heads facing a certain direction? There's something related to the 2nd coming of Christ and the position most people are buried in, I think. I might be wrong, but I've never honestly thought about it. (Like the feet are pointed East, the head is pointed West or something like that).

Besides, wouldn't Hell be south since it's going down? :p
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Yeah its feet pointed east so when the dead rise when Christ comes they'll be in the standing position I guess..lol

BK, was that the same preacher or another??? I'd like to hear what foundations these people are basing all this from!
 
I think it's just custom - like the custom that whenever a body is carried aboard a transport (plane, hearse, etc.) the feet always go first.
 
Largo-I thought that was it. I don't know; I don't really think it'll matter to be perfectly honest.

Wow. Some preachers are a little off in their teachings apparently. Who would believe that?????
 
Largo said:
BK, was that the same preacher or another??? I'd like to hear what foundations these people are basing all this from!
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A different preacher of course! I don't even remember if they backed it up. Their ideas were so far-fetched I think I lost interest in whatever it was they were preaching on.

OH! And I also heard yet a different preacher at a small church somewhere in Oklahoma, I believe, say that when Jesus came to earth, He didn't actually WALKED on the surface but pretty much just... well... sort of "hovered" over the ground without touching it. LOL!!! Oh Lord, I'm laughing just remembering now. His reasoning was that there was way too much sin on earth, Jesus could not actually stand touching the ground. LOL LOL.

I tell, you there are all kinds of crazy ideas out there. But guess what? My faith has always been well grounded on Christ. People who don't have that are easily swayed by all manner of doctrines. Terrible.

Anyway, this thing about East Vs West in Narnia sort of opens up a can of worms doesn't it?
 
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Copperfox said:
Lewis' early book "The Pilgrim's Regress," playing upon the awareness of a round Earth, showed a blessed land being potentially reachable from both directions. So later, when he wrote the Chronicles of Narnia, perhaps he put Aslan's Country to the east _because_ Tolkien had placed it to the west; he could have been saying that he was approaching the same goal as Tolkien from a different direction.

I do know that Lewis liked the idea of linking stories. Merlin, as depicted in "That Hideous Strength," is supposed to be descended from the same Numenorean race as Aragorn.
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Lewis did show characters arriving at Aslan's Country from both directions: Reepicheep got there from the East while Lucy, Peter, Edmund, Tirian, Jewel, etc all went "further up and further in" through the stable door, west past Cauldron Pool and up the Great Waterfall, further west until they arrived at Aslan's Country.

In Biblical symbolism, man left the Garden of Eden and the presence of God supposedly going east (the side it was guarded on), into the world; and the ancient way of accessing the presence of God once again was through temples, also facing east, and the high priest would travel west through the east temple door, into the holy place, through the veil and into the holy of holies, representing the presence of God, moving always west into more and more holy places. Maybe the different religious views of Tolkien and Lewis have something to do with their placement of emphasis on east vs. west. For Tolkien, going back west, into the presence of God was the more holy direction; whereas for Lewis who may have valued life's necessary experiences as represented by the east as well as the ultimate direction back to God represented by west... both east and west are holy directions.

I personally believe that there was purpose to the way Lewis drew his map of Narnia.

Excellent discussion, Sven-El, I'm glad you started it, I wish I had found this thread a long time ago!
 
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