What Do you think could have happened to Susan?

For those of us who understand that Aslan is Jesus, then a rejection of Aslan is a rejection of Jesus -- which is why in this discussion we often assume that Susan rejected the entire Christ-life when she rejected Aslan and Narnia. Lewis doesn't address her relationship with Aslan in this world, but as we know he intended Aslan to be Jesus in Narnia, it seems a safe assumption that Susan's rejection of Him is complete in both worlds. You can't really say to the Savior, "I love you in Africa and hate you in the USA."
 
Good point, Inky. But could it be she wasn't as open as the others were to Aslan's identity as Jesus? That maybe, nominally, she considered herself Christian? After all, the others suspected, but only had it proven to them undeniably when seeing Aslan in Heaven face to face and he revealed himself to them as El Shaddai.

I see the Pevensies earlier a bit like the apostles walking with Jesus after his resurrection but before his ascension. When he spoke to them of many things including the prophesy that the messiah would die and rise again and their "heart burned strangely within them". Only at the table when they broke bread together did he call them by name and they recognized him...then he vanished.
 
Thank you, Magister, for integrating Heaven! One thing that turned me off when reading the mostly-beloved "Lord of the Rings" was Tolkien's bizarre notion that Heaven in effect WAS segregated: that Elves, Dwarves and Humans each had a _separate_ arrangement for eternity, so that they _never_ would meet again. (Hobbits probably went to the human Heaven.) Thus by choosing to be human, Arwen was causing herself to be parted from her parents for ALL eternity to come. First reading this as a non-Christian teenager, my reaction was, "WHY WOULD any kind of a decent God arbitrarily do this to His creatures, when there would be NO reason why He _couldn't_ let them see each other in the afterlife?"
 
Not to wander off into Middle Earth, but did elves ever get an after life? I thought they just lived forever, so they would never have reached the human afterlife ...?

Good point, Magister, about Susan's perhaps being unaware of Aslan's identity as Jesus, and so, still considering herself a Christ follower while at the same time rejecting what she saw as a childish game, Narnia.
 
Copperfox said:
One thing that turned me off when reading the mostly-beloved "Lord of the Rings" was Tolkien's bizarre notion that Heaven in effect WAS segregated: that Elves, Dwarves and Humans each had a _separate_ arrangement for eternity, so that they _never_ would meet again. (Hobbits probably went to the human Heaven.)
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I always took it that `The undying lands` was just heaven anyway and Elves could get there without dying.
 
We know one thing about Susan that makes me think that Lewis meant that she rejected it all, not just Aslan or Narnia. We know that she became a dreaded "materialist." One that would make Screwtape dance with joy; if indeed he was able to secure her, she would have been one of his greatest prizes. Now she may have stayed nominally Christian, but what is a nominal Christian. I would beg to say that a RINO (Republican In Name Only) or a DINO (Demacrat In Name Only) is far better than a Christian who professes belief with only their lips, not taking it into the realm of their heart. Susan's heart, at least at the time of the Train wreck, was paying homage to the gods of stuff, money, and society not Jesus.
 
I often wonder if Susan, rather than denying the existance of Narnia had actually forgotten about it.
If she had remained a `friend of Narnia` then its likely she would have been on the train with the others and died with them. Perhaps its necessary that one of the Pevesies survive and live on in England afterwards and Susan in being made to forget to ensure that one does.
 
Copperfox said:
Thank you, Magister, for integrating Heaven! One thing that turned me off when reading the mostly-beloved "Lord of the Rings" was Tolkien's bizarre notion that Heaven in effect WAS segregated: that Elves, Dwarves and Humans each had a _separate_ arrangement for eternity, so that they _never_ would meet again. (Hobbits probably went to the human Heaven.) Thus by choosing to be human, Arwen was causing herself to be parted from her parents for ALL eternity to come. First reading this as a non-Christian teenager, my reaction was, "WHY WOULD any kind of a decent God arbitrarily do this to His creatures, when there would be NO reason why He _couldn't_ let them see each other in the afterlife?"
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Actually, Tolkien never specifically says what happens to Men when they die. They simply go beyond the Circles of the World. The dwarves were not made by Illuvatar, which is why they had a separate arrangement. The Elves, immortal, died and went to the Halls of Mandos or traveled to the Undying Lands when they "tired". While this is still different from the Humans, I always had a feeling that it was more or less temporary and perhaps Elves and Men--all Children of Illuvatar--will be reunited after the Last Battle (yes, there's one of those in Middle Earth too!) I never could figure out which group Hobbits belonged in, though Human is most likely. ;) I'd have to go back to The Silmarillion to study Illuvatar's meaning behind it, and since I've just spent 4 hours working on a 2 week unit on The Hobbit for my husband, I'm much too tired for more research.

Not to wander off into Middle Earth, but did elves ever get an after life? I thought they just lived forever, so they would never have reached the human afterlife ...?
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Umm...There's the Halls of Mandos and eternity in the Undying Lands. I think that's it, unless my theory is true and Elves and Men are reunited at the end of time. :)

I always took it that `The undying lands` was just heaven anyway and Elves could get there without dying.
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Kinda and yes. :) The Undying Lands are pretty much the Elven equivalent of Heaven and yes, they could get there by ship by following the Straight Road, which was hidden from everyone else since the end of the Second Age.

Now back on topic--
We know one thing about Susan that makes me think that Lewis meant that she rejected it all, not just Aslan or Narnia. We know that she became a dreaded "materialist." One that would make Screwtape dance with joy; if indeed he was able to secure her, she would have been one of his greatest prizes. Now she may have stayed nominally Christian, but what is a nominal Christian. I would beg to say that a RINO (Republican In Name Only) or a DINO (Demacrat In Name Only) is far better than a Christian who professes belief with only their lips, not taking it into the realm of their heart. Susan's heart, at least at the time of the Train wreck, was paying homage to the gods of stuff, money, and society not Jesus.
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Yup, that's what I think too.
 
"Susan stopped believing in Narnia. Nowhere, even in The Last Battle, did it say Susan stopped believing in God or in life after death."

Elenatri, Nowhere in the books does it say that Lucy, Edmund, Peter or any of the other friends was a Christian. He conveniently left that out. The only "religions" that were in the books were Narnian religion and Calormene religion.

Since this is speculative fiction, Susan's religion is also relative to that. She was, in effect, of the Narnian religion and denied it later on.

"SECOND this whole idea of Narnia Heaven, as if it were an exclusive place...Come on folks, you aren't separated from your loved ones for eternity if they choose to go to a "different Heaven" from you. It's not like she'd have to swim the Rio Grande at night to see her brothers and sister again. And yes, of course, when she died her parents and siblings would come to see HER no matter where she appeared. All the "lands" of Heaven are connected."

Exactly. The different Real Lands are all interconnected. Lucy noticed this when she saw Real England and her parents from Real Narnia. They were separated but it would not be a great distress to go and visit. Time there was irrelevant and one could not tell the different between thirty minutes and thirty years. Susan, when she made it to the Real England, would have no problem visiting the Real Narnia after a few hundred years--or a few days.

MrBob
 
Vanzetti said:
Maybe it won`t sound very optimistic, but I always thought that Susan died and went to hell.
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All we actually know is that Susan is`nt present at the Narnian Last Battle and that all the people who ARE present from England have been killed in that world in a rail accident sometime in the late 1940`s. Something she clearly has avoided.
Since she is still quite young (somewhere between 18 and 20) there is no reason to assume that she is dead, she could still be alive in the England of 2008 as an old woman.
A lot of what she is being accused of in the so called `fall` is just normal behaviour for a young woman of her age and background at the time.
All thats happening with her is that she has an active social life and is seriously dating. Her main critics in the book are mainly children somewhat younger than her and an elderly woman who grew up during the Victorian period and probably never married (though its possible that she could have been widowed during WW1), a not altogether unbiased group.
Her most likely fate is I think, is that she met some man shortly after the time of `The Last Battle,` got married and had children just as most women of her time would have done and, as she grew older more of the `Queen Susan the Gentle` part of her character resurfaced.

The only real question to me is whether or not she actually remembers Narnia, if she remembers and denys it then thats one thing. If she has realy forgotten then thats a different story.
 
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"Susan stopped believing in Narnia. Nowhere, even in The Last Battle, did it say Susan stopped believing in God or in life after death."

Elenatri, Nowhere in the books does it say that Lucy, Edmund, Peter or any of the other friends was a Christian. He conveniently left that out. The only "religions" that were in the books were Narnian religion and Calormene religion.
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Did I say that? I'll have to go back and search the thread because I do NOT remember saying that. ::shrugs:: :confused:
 
Elentari said:
Susan stopped believing in Narnia. Nowhere, even in The Last Battle, did it say Susan stopped believing in God or in life after death."

"Elenatri, Nowhere in the books does it say that Lucy, Edmund, Peter or any of the other friends was a Christian. He conveniently left that out. The only "religions" that were in the books were Narnian religion and Calormene religion. "

Did I say that? I'll have to go back and search the thread because I do NOT remember saying that. ::shrugs:: :confused:
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If you look back, you will see that EveningStar made that comment, not Elentari. It's not a big deal, but I was really confused to be quoted when I had no memory of "believing" that at all. :) As for the comment about the book not saying the friends were "Christian", that can be assumed by reading between the lines, but you are correct that Lewis never comes right out and says it.
 
there are some quite obvious hints though, especially at the end of the voyage of the Dawn Treader.
(when I was little I got very confused about how a sheep managed to turn into a lion lol)
 
I'm sorry Elentari. I remember telling myself that it was Evening Star whom I was responding to but I must have wrote Elentari by mistake. Oh well, I got the first letter right :eek:

MrBob
 
MrBob said:
I'm sorry Elentari. I remember telling myself that it was Evening Star whom I was responding to but I must have wrote Elentari by mistake. Oh well, I got the first letter right :eek:

MrBob
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No problem, MrEd.
:)
Sorry -- couldn't resist.
 
Though the books do not say it specifically, Lewis does imply it. One of the times is at the end of VotDT. Lucy also says something in LB that points to it: "In our world too, a stable once had something inside it that was bigger than our whole world." Also, the children live by the Christian code of Ethics (no evesdropping and such) and the knighthood of the boys is modeled after the Knights of the Round Table.
 
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