White and Green

E

Euphrates

New member
Hi everyone! I'm new and my name is Aaron.

I was recently discussing the relationship between Jadis and the Green Lady with a few people. The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that Jadis was the Lady of the Green Kirtle also.

Do you all think it is possible for Jadis to have come back to life after Aslan killed her in LWW? I mean, the hag in Prince Caspian said it could be done. Or is it possible that Jadis never really died in LWW, but her fellow creatures thought she was dead? I'm not sure.

All I know is that there are too many similarities between the White Witch and the Green Lady for us to simply assume they are not, in some way, the same. What do you think? :confused:
________
marijuana pictures
 
Last edited:
Right, but there are many more similarities than just "they're both bad".

For example, the White Witch is associated with cold right? Well, after Eustace, Puddleglum, and Jill encountered the Green Witch on their way to the giant's place, it became very cold. So cold, in fact, that it was a main reason the children decided to go to the giant castle the Witch had recommended. *Almost like she made it cold...

Also, the Dwarves that rescued Jill, Eustace, Puddleglum, and Rilian were doing the Great Snow Dance. Interesting, huh? And the Green Witch had promised Prince Rilian a place of nobility, just like the White Witch promised Edmund a place of nobility. Their tactics are very similar.

Furthermore, Jadis tempted Digory in the garden in MN. Kind of like a snake, right?

I also think that the poem in The Silver Chair hints that the Green Witch was once the White Witch, because Rilian says something like "she knows it well" or something that I read as "she knows what it's like".

And, of all the places to attack, the Green Witch is attacking Narnia. Keep in mind that enough time had elapsed between LWW and SC to hatch a new plan and enslave the underground men.

But the main point is that Aslan says that Jadis will have "endless days", so I don't see how the WW could have died unless we can distinguish between Jadis and the WW. Like the WW was a personality of Jadis, and so was the Green Lady.

Thoughts?
________
girlfriend pic
 
Last edited:
I believe Jadis in MN, the white witch in LLW, the hag in PC, and the Lady of the Green Kirtle in SC are all one and the same. I'm going to pose another question here. If one were to parallell this world and Narnia, would Satan be represented as Tash or Jadis?
 
I'd have to say Jadis is the better representation of the devil. First off, Aslan shows his power over Jadis without question. But does Aslan ever show his power over Tash? Does Aslan ever meet with Tash? As I remember it, there is no interaction between Aslan and Tash throughout the CoN. Plus, Tash only gets brought into the picture late. I think Tash represents Vishnu, or any god of another religion. You don't see Tash doing bad things, just people doing bad things in the name of Tash.

Yeah, Jadis better represents the devil than Tash. Jadis keeps getting defeated, yet keeps coming back (because she will not cease to exist until the "Last Battle" when we all go "home"). She tempted Digory in the garden, etc.

What do you think?
________
green crack
 
Last edited:
The point I'm about to make sort of falls down in the fact that Tash actually appears in the Last Battle, but could it be that Tash is simply another religions distorted view of Aslan. THis would be much like the opinion that other major world religions are worshipping the Christian God, but it is distorted and so they do not understand the fundamental truths of Christianity, which are the key to eternal life. I know that makes no sense whatsoever, but I hope you can piece some sense out of it.
P.S. This isn't my opinion but I know other Christians who feel this way.
 
Wait, it's been a long time since I read The Last Battle... Tash actually appears in the battle!?

This part really belongs in the other thread, but here's how I see it. What's in a name? Not much. All that matters is accepting God's love through Christ's sacrifice. Names do not matter. But, again, this belongs in another thread.

I do not recall Tash ever presenting itself in the books. I also do not recal any deeds being directly attributed to Tash. I just don't see how Tash could represent the devil.

But back to my question, does anyone else agree that Jadis is the Green Lady in The Silver Chair also? Does anyone disagree? I would like to have a discussion.
:)
________
Yamaha MDR-1 specifications
 
Last edited:
Agree

I agree with Dryad that Jadis is the White Witch, the lady in the green kyrtle, and the hag from Prince Caspian -- in fact, the hag admits as much, I think, she says the power of the white witch never really goes away or can always be brought back, indicating that she wields that undying power (or is that undying person). Tash does appear in TLB, and he does destructive things, but in that setting, he seems to be serving Aslan's will (like the "destroyer" that killed every firstborn of Egypt but did not come near the Israelites that first passover). In that way, Tash can be seen as playing a role in the final battle, because he gobbles up the enemies of Narnia and King Tirian, at Aslan's bidding. And we know that Tash can't be seen as the devil because one of Tash's devotees, the Calormene Emeth, is found in the new Narnia, indicating that he came to heaven while following Tash rather than Aslan. Aslan accepts his service to Tash as service to himself, but I doubt he would accept anyone in service to the White Witch as one of his own, indeed, he let himself be killed to redeem Edmund from just that.
 
Thank you, Jasmine, for _squelching_ a profoundly wrong notion!

Since when should we accept the word of an evil Hag who has an incentive to _pretend_ that evil is more powerful than it actually is?

If Jadis could return to life after _Aslan_ slew her, then Jadis is _equal_ to Aslan. This works in Zoroastrianism, which believes good and evil are equal in power. It cannot possibly work in a _Christian_ worldview, peer-ee-odd.
 
The books always said "of the same kind;" the books say a couple of others things that make me very firm on my belief that Jadis actually is dead in a way where she could not come back in a bodily form. In LWW, the prophesy of the Four Thrones meant that when the Pevensies began to rule, the White Witch would die. She was literally killed by God. In Prince Caspian when the hag and wer-wolf are trying to conjure her up, someone (it has been a minute since I physically read it, but I think it was Caspian) says they are calling up an accursed spirit which would imply that she would have come back in spirit form. In Silver Chair, they talk of Northern Witches as if there was known to be more than one. The similarities are that they want to rule Narnia and they use enchantments to do it. The differences are just as Stark, the way they enchant people (food and fear vs. music and seduction), the power they wield and their powers are equally different. Jadis had the power to make herself and others appear different but it was linked to her wand. Honestly, I do not think Jadis would have gone through the whole, tunneling in the Underworld and Earthman army, all she would have needed was a new wand and she would have been able to do what she did the first time. The Lady of the Green Kirtle had lots of power but it does not seem to be as much as Jadis. She definitely wasn't the Emperor Over the Sea's "hangman"
 
Last edited:
Right. I know BBC cast Barbara Kellermen (who actually looks a lot like Angelica Huston) as both the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle. Even then, there wasn't any implication that they're the same person! It may have been for budgetary reasons!

It's been a banned topic over on Narniaweb for years because people wanted to continue to argue! Even I almost feel dumb having to talk about it, kind of like, "Why aren't Rabadash and Rishda the same person? Do I need to list the reasons?"
 
jasmine tarkheena said:
Right. I know BBC cast Barbara Kellermen (who actually looks a lot like Angelica Huston) as both the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle. Even then, there wasn't any implication that they're the same person! It may have been for budgetary reasons!

It's been a banned topic over on Narniaweb for years because people wanted to continue to argue! Even I almost feel dumb having to talk about it, kind of like, "Why aren't Rabadash and Rishda the same person? Do I need to list the reasons?"
Click to expand...
When I was very young (and much more prone to being scared by villians) I watched the BBC adaptations. I was young enough that I could not read the books. After seeing LWW where Barbara Kellermen scared the heck our of me and PC where she was the hag and they were planning on calling up the White Witch, I, in my juvenile wisdom, decided that they must have gotten Jadis back somehow by SC when I saw Barbara Kellermen again. It long delayed my enjoyment of the books because I took that impression with me long after I would have been old enough to understand it. The idea that Jadis could have come back after Aslan killed her made me uncomfortable even in my tender years.
 
Copperfox said:
Thank you, Jasmine, for _squelching_ a profoundly wrong notion!

Since when should we accept the word of an evil Hag who has an incentive to _pretend_ that evil is more powerful than it actually is?

If Jadis could return to life after _Aslan_ slew her, then Jadis is _equal_ to Aslan. This works in Zoroastrianism, which believes good and evil are equal in power. It cannot possibly work in a _Christian_ worldview, peer-ee-odd.
Click to expand...
Right. It's like accepting Jadis' word in the Magician's Nepehew that it was all her sister's fault for the destruction of Charn. When someone we know is on the side of evil is making such claims, their words should be immediately suspect.
 
jasmine tarkheena said:
I know there's been speculation that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are the same person! They're actually not (the Estate has confirmed it!) It's possible they could be related, though!
Click to expand...
Think this is looking way too deeply for something that is not there. Evil is not unique, especially evil in stories where it is pretty singular in the thirst for dominion and power. So all your villains are going to be very similar. That being said, Jadis is from another world, which is not another planet, but like a whole other dimension. Lewis was doing multiverse before anyone else! She was the last, and Charn was destroyed. A good story does not need to be complicated, and in this case she is simply a witch, or something equal to that. No relation to Jadis, outside of sharing evil intent for forced control.
 
^^^^^ Yes, this! In Marvel comic books, are Loki, Thanos, Magneto, Doctor Doom, Sandman, Green Goblin, Sabertooth, Abomination, Juggernaut, Baron Mordo, Vulture, Attuma, Kraven and Stilt Man all the same person?
 
Copperfox said:
^^^^^ Yes, this! In Marvel comic books, are Loki, Thanos, Magneto, Doctor Doom, Sandman, Green Goblin, Sabertooth, Abomination, Juggernaut, Baron Mordo, Vulture, Attuma, Kraven and Stilt Man all the same person?
Click to expand...
I think the first 3 stand out a little and are more interesting villains. I only know from he movies, not a comic book reader.

Loki - more an anti hero, seems to help in the end and not be a straightforward evil doer for evils sake
Thanos - he was an interesting villain because again he was not seeking to destroy for no reason, there was something behind it, a twisted view of what would make the world/universe a better place. They even mention in End Game that the world was actually a better place when looking at everyone having food, jobs, housing, etc.
Magneto - I found him to be a very interesting bad guy coming out of the Nazi camps and seeing something similar going on with Mutants in his old age. He would not let that happen again.

None of the reasons above justify the actions, but they make more sense and can at least be understood
 
Back
Top