You know its easy to criticize movie Peter when watching the film but...

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Josh

Josh

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...in real life if you were in the situation I don't think you would think of him as such a bad person.

Yeah he didnt need to get in the fight, but everyone has moments where they explode. That is the only point in the film where I feel he was acting immature.

But really, the whole Night Raid attempt seemed like a good idea. And since Aslan wasnt showing up apparently, the Night Raid seemed like the best option. It would have worked had Caspian not awoken Miraz. Peter should have called it off, but his reasons for trying to fight wasnt because he was being an arrogant glory seeker. He just felt like he was constantly failing at everything and was hoping that maybe there was still time to win with this Night Raid.

Many critizise him for even listening to Jadis. Now while we objectively look at the series and realise that she represents the Devil and that she is bad, lets look at it from Peter's perspective. Your soldiers are dying. The guy that is suppossed to be future King of Narnia turns out to be immature and overemotional. And Miraz's army is coming and Aslan is still not showing. Although seeking Aslan is the right spiritual choice, from a logical standpoint and when in a state of crisis it wouldnt seem like the best idea to just wander around the woods screaming "Aslan!".

So you find CASPIAN seeking the aid of the White Witch (no one seems mad at him for this apparently), and Peter pushes him out of the way. The Witch doesnt seem to be in the killing mode, but rather she's offering to help him. If your only hope of saving hundreds of lives against an an enemy was by making an alliance with an old enemy, wouldnt you consider it? Maybe not, but I know several people that would. One other thing to keep in mind is that the magic circle (drawn by the hag) seemed to have an enchanting effect on whoever stood in it. Caspian seemd a bit hypnotized when he stood in it, and maybe Peter's mind was caught off gaurd when he stepped inside.

I just think its wrong for people to label Peter as a jerk, when really he seems just like a regular person you would see at school and be friends with. And even though he made mistakes in the movie, he alway had the intention of saving Narnia when he made them. I think thats why he sometimes snapped at Caspian and Trumpkin, because they seemed to keep making him feel like he couldnt save narnia when he felt as king it was his responsibility to do so.
 
But he's not a regular person, is he? He's had at least a decade and a half of experience ruling and battling and that sort of thing.
 
I know that, but still that doesnt make him a "jerk" like so many people call him. I've talked to people who havent read the books and they all like Peter better then Caspian.

Anyway, Peter's battle tactics that he got after 15 years didnt seem to be lacking...the Night Raid was working.

I think his biggest problem was that he was suppossed to be the leader and his sisters and Caspian kept arguing agaisnt him.
 
Film Peter's biggest problem was that he felt entitled to something. When you feel a sense of entitlement, you automatically are going to come across as someone who is grasping and selfish with no thought of how your actions and words impact others.

This horrid sense of entitlement is a huge departure from book Peter whose real kingly attitude showed in that he felt himself present for service, to place Caspian on the throne, to serve Aslan whether Aslan was there or not. He had a true king's nobility which meant: I will do my best for these folks, even if it means sacrifice. Film Peter had none of that. He wanted to be king, and he wanted to be king now, wah-wah-wah. :(
 
inkspot said:
Film Peter's biggest problem was that he felt entitled to something. When you feel a sense of entitlement, you automatically are going to come across as someone who is grasping and selfish with no thought of how your actions and words impact others.

This horrid sense of entitlement is a huge departure from book Peter whose real kingly attitude showed in that he felt himself present for service, to place Caspian on the throne, to serve Aslan whether Aslan was there or not. He had a true king's nobility which meant: I will do my best for these folks, even if it means sacrifice. Film Peter had none of that. He wanted to be king, and he wanted to be king now, wah-wah-wah. :(
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Thus leading to my pet name for him throughout the first half of the movie: Brat King.
 
And also, if Peter's sisters were both against him, that should have been a reason for him to sit back and rethink his position. I don't know where fandom gets this idea that the High King meant Peter should just order his siblings around--everything in canon seems to point to the idea that they each respected and trusted each other, and that Peter allowed his siblings (if allowed is even the word) a great deal of freedom to handle the country as they saw fit. If book!Peter had both practical Susan and hey-Aslan-told-me-so Lucy against him, he would have at least taken a moment to rethink his opinion instead of going all AAAGH I USED TO BE A KING BUT NOW I AM NOT NO ONE UNDERSTANDS MY PAAAAAIN.
 
But here is the problem. Susan wasnt going against Peter's decisions because she didnt agree with him. It was because she liked Caspian and sided with him. "If we dig in, we can probably hold them off indefinatly". "Peter and I can deal with Miraz".

And Edmund who was a great guy agreed with Peter.

And Inkspot you said a King "would do the best for these folks, even if it means sacrifice." Isnt that what he was doing? He was trying to do his best to help Narnia. And he was willing to die in a duel against Miraz if it meant giving his sisters a slight chance at finding Aslan. And I don't see where Peter would have made a sacrifice at any other point in the film.
 
I always though, "come on, peter. Do something right!" But I agree with you. He was just doing what any normal(ish) person would do under the circumstance.
 
In the Jadis scene, I just assume that anyone standing in the circle would have a heightened susceptibility. If you remember, after Edmund thrisst his sword through the ice, Peter acted like he came out of a trance.

"Although seeking Aslan is the right spiritual choice, from a logical standpoint and when in a state of crisis it wouldnt seem like the best idea to just wander around the woods screaming "Aslan!"."

But Josh, after that scene, that's effectively what he did. He sent Lucy and Suan out into the woods to search for Aslan. The problem is that he just didn't believe that Aslan was around even after Lucy saw him, and then later went the exact way where she did see him. Lucy also told him that searching for Aslan was the third option, but he would not hear of it.

Thiml about it, the first time they walked to Aslan, they traveled a very long way on foot. I don't think they went that far in the right direction in PC.

MrBob
 
Aslan's Child_1996 said:
I always though, "come on, peter. Do something right!" But I agree with you. He was just doing what any normal(ish) person would do under the circumstance.
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See thats what I'm saying. I agree movie Peter is more flawed then in the book and he made some bad choices. But none of his choices really make him a "jerk" like people are calling him.
 
What we call him is just a matter of semantics. Yes, he may have behaved as a normal 21st Century teenager would have behaved, but that is not what he was. He was a pre WWII teenager who had also ruled for many years as a good and wise king in Narnia. For him to act as a normal 21st Century teenager makes him abnormal for who he was and, by the standards of those of us who revere book Peter, a jerk.

And no, he did not sacrifice for his people. He insisted on carrying forward that night raise because it was his idea, even when it was clearly going to fail and Susan was pleading with him to abandon it. A real king puts aside his own desire for glory when it's clear his plan will cost the lives of his subjects and have no success. Film Peter did not. He insisted on having his way when it was disastrous for others. That is not noble or kingly. It's selfish and another reflection of his sense of entitlement: these beings have to die for me, so my plan will be vindicated.

He was a jerk.
 
Also, that Caspian was a worse jerk doesn't make Peter any less jerky (jerkish?).

Of course, they both got character arcs, which is more than I can say for some people, *coughcough*LUCY*coughcough*.
 
Josh said:
...in real life if you were in the situation I don't think you would think of him as such a bad person.

Yeah he didnt need to get in the fight, but everyone has moments where they explode. That is the only point in the film where I feel he was acting immature.

But really, the whole Night Raid attempt seemed like a good idea. And since Aslan wasnt showing up apparently, the Night Raid seemed like the best option. It would have worked had Caspian not awoken Miraz. Peter should have called it off, but his reasons for trying to fight wasnt because he was being an arrogant glory seeker. He just felt like he was constantly failing at everything and was hoping that maybe there was still time to win with this Night Raid.

Many critizise him for even listening to Jadis. Now while we objectively look at the series and realise that she represents the Devil and that she is bad, lets look at it from Peter's perspective. Your soldiers are dying. The guy that is suppossed to be future King of Narnia turns out to be immature and overemotional. And Miraz's army is coming and Aslan is still not showing. Although seeking Aslan is the right spiritual choice, from a logical standpoint and when in a state of crisis it wouldnt seem like the best idea to just wander around the woods screaming "Aslan!".

So you find CASPIAN seeking the aid of the White Witch (no one seems mad at him for this apparently), and Peter pushes him out of the way. The Witch doesnt seem to be in the killing mode, but rather she's offering to help him. If your only hope of saving hundreds of lives against an an enemy was by making an alliance with an old enemy, wouldnt you consider it? Maybe not, but I know several people that would. One other thing to keep in mind is that the magic circle (drawn by the hag) seemed to have an enchanting effect on whoever stood in it. Caspian seemd a bit hypnotized when he stood in it, and maybe Peter's mind was caught off gaurd when he stepped inside.

I just think its wrong for people to label Peter as a jerk, when really he seems just like a regular person you would see at school and be friends with. And even though he made mistakes in the movie, he alway had the intention of saving Narnia when he made them. I think thats why he sometimes snapped at Caspian and Trumpkin, because they seemed to keep making him feel like he couldnt save narnia when he felt as king it was his responsibility to do so.
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couldn't say it better enough
 
Josh said:
...in real life if you were in the situation I don't think you would think of him as such a bad person.

Yeah he didnt need to get in the fight, but everyone has moments where they explode. That is the only point in the film where I feel he was acting immature.

But really, the whole Night Raid attempt seemed like a good idea. And since Aslan wasnt showing up apparently, the Night Raid seemed like the best option. It would have worked had Caspian not awoken Miraz. Peter should have called it off, but his reasons for trying to fight wasnt because he was being an arrogant glory seeker. He just felt like he was constantly failing at everything and was hoping that maybe there was still time to win with this Night Raid.

Many critizise him for even listening to Jadis. Now while we objectively look at the series and realise that she represents the Devil and that she is bad, lets look at it from Peter's perspective. Your soldiers are dying. The guy that is suppossed to be future King of Narnia turns out to be immature and overemotional. And Miraz's army is coming and Aslan is still not showing. Although seeking Aslan is the right spiritual choice, from a logical standpoint and when in a state of crisis it wouldnt seem like the best idea to just wander around the woods screaming "Aslan!".

So you find CASPIAN seeking the aid of the White Witch (no one seems mad at him for this apparently), and Peter pushes him out of the way. The Witch doesnt seem to be in the killing mode, but rather she's offering to help him. If your only hope of saving hundreds of lives against an an enemy was by making an alliance with an old enemy, wouldnt you consider it? Maybe not, but I know several people that would. One other thing to keep in mind is that the magic circle (drawn by the hag) seemed to have an enchanting effect on whoever stood in it. Caspian seemd a bit hypnotized when he stood in it, and maybe Peter's mind was caught off gaurd when he stepped inside.

I just think its wrong for people to label Peter as a jerk, when really he seems just like a regular person you would see at school and be friends with. And even though he made mistakes in the movie, he alway had the intention of saving Narnia when he made them. I think thats why he sometimes snapped at Caspian and Trumpkin, because they seemed to keep making him feel like he couldnt save narnia when he felt as king it was his responsibility to do so.
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Frankly I think you just opened an old wound and one that doesn't need to be revisited. And just for the record, the books are books and the movies are movies. Neither one should be held in godlike regard, which I feel is the attitude of most book fans on this forum. I'm sorry, but that's how I see it. It's almost an idol.
 
inkspot said:
What we call him is just a matter of semantics. Yes, he may have behaved as a normal 21st Century teenager would have behaved, but that is not what he was. He was a pre WWII teenager who had also ruled for many years as a good and wise king in Narnia. For him to act as a normal 21st Century teenager makes him abnormal for who he was and, by the standards of those of us who revere book Peter, a jerk.

And no, he did not sacrifice for his people. He insisted on carrying forward that night raise because it was his idea, even when it was clearly going to fail and Susan was pleading with him to abandon it. A real king puts aside his own desire for glory when it's clear his plan will cost the lives of his subjects and have no success. Film Peter did not. He insisted on having his way when it was disastrous for others. That is not noble or kingly. It's selfish and another reflection of his sense of entitlement: these beings have to die for me, so my plan will be vindicated.

He was a jerk.
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But thats the thing, PETER WAS NOT SEEKING GLORY!! Even if he was being stubborn and didnt abandon the plan, it wasnt to make himself appear good. It wasnt so that he could be worshiped by the Narnians. And I think he truely believed the plan would work. It was a bad error in judgement, but you could tell by his face when the gate shut down that he was not expecting so many to die that night.
 
While I agree that this debate has been going on for FAR to long I note that everybody always focuses on Peter or Caspian and not on the Narnian people themselves.
They just seem to have been sitting back for hundreds of years nursing grudges and appear to expect Aslan and the Pevensies to turn up and sort things out overnight.
 
Josh said:
But thats the thing, PETER WAS NOT SEEKING GLORY!! Even if he was being stubborn and didnt abandon the plan, it wasnt to make himself appear good. It wasnt so that he could be worshiped by the Narnians. And I think he truely believed the plan would work. It was a bad error in judgement, but you could tell by his face when the gate shut down that he was not expecting so many to die that night.
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Of course he didn't expect that many to die -- he expected to have a glorious victory. He was so totally convinced of it, he forced them to go ahead with the plan even when it was clear there was no longer any hope of success. He did not demontrate kingly behavior in the least ...
 
Josh said:
See thats what I'm saying. I agree movie Peter is more flawed then in the book and he made some bad choices. But none of his choices really make him a "jerk" like people are calling him.
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I think that was well-said, Josh, and I don't think film Peter is a jerk either, just much more prone to human character flaws. But the significant lessening of his nobility in the book does a fair deal of damage to the character, don't you think? You get the impression he could become a tragic figure if it weren't for the intervention of his siblings. For my part, I have to separate the two stories in my head to enjoy both.
 
inkspot said:
Of course he didn't expect that many to die -- he expected to have a glorious victory. He was so totally convinced of it, he forced them to go ahead with the plan even when it was clear there was no longer any hope of success. He did not demontrate kingly behavior in the least ...
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The trouble is how can we ever know for sure what a character is thinking?
To me, the way the whole castle scene looked like an act of desperation which if it fails will have disasterous consequences and the final judgement call falls on Peter as king.
Is it any wonder then that he sticks to the plan at first even when it starts to go wrong, they have come so close to victory that perhaps with a little more effort then they can still pull it off.
What other options does Peter actually have anyway at that point?
Anybody got any suggestions, the situation is at that point that Peter, Susan, Caspian, Edmund and the other infiltrators are inside the castle with the garrison alerted and the main Narnian attack force is outside in the town.
What are their chances of getting out alive?
 
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