You know its easy to criticize movie Peter when watching the film but...

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There would have been fewer lost if Peter had signaled a retreat -- instead he started bringing more creatures in for the bloodbath. And I think we can hazard a guess as to what he was thinking by the way the character had acted and posken up to that point. He felt Aslan had abandoned him, and everything was on his shoulders. His siblings even had to remind him that it was Aslan, not Peter, who defeated the WW. He clearly had a chip on his shoulder about Caspian, was a boy prone to get into unnecessary fights and wanted to be king! Based on all this which was evident in the film, I think we can say he wanted that victory for his own glory.
 
Notice inkspot how you say his siblings had to remind him that Aslan defeated the WW? In the film Lucy is the only one who did. Part of the reason I get angry at the Peter hate is that everyone dwells on his mistakes and ignores the mistakes of the others.

Edmund was certainly happy to go along with his brother's plan and he agreed to every decision.

Susan certainly didnt want to go searching for Aslan, and in fact she wasnt very enthusiastic about being in Narnia in the first place. She constantly sided with Caspian's (sometimes wrong) decisions just because she had an attraction to him, not because she felt he was right. In addition it seems the only reason she didnt regret coming back was because she got to kiss Caspian.

Reepicheep and Trumpkin also were eager to fight without looking for Aslan and in additon both tended to be very rude to others. Trumpkin grumbled the whole time of course, but Reepicheep insulted the squirl infront of all the Narnians and told him to shut up. And he said in a much harsher way then Susan or Peter did at the other moments of the film. And Reepicheep's pride in his skills and desire for fighting seemd much more like glory seeking then what Peter was doing.

I don't think Peter was ever dreaming about a glorious restoration of Narnia. Rather he felt like the Telmarines created a mess that he needed to clean up.

I've already spoken of Caspian's numerous mistakes, screw ups, and errors of judgement so I won't say them again.
 
"In the film Lucy is the only one who did. Part of the reason I get angry at the Peter hate is that everyone dwells on his mistakes and ignores the mistakes of the others."

I was actually going to mentiion this before inky. Peter's reaction to Lucy in that scene said a lot about where his anger was. Things were falling apart and he felt he had the only viable answer. When others disagreed with hin, he took it as a personal insult, especially when Lucy dared to bring up the fact that Aslan saved them from the WW (especially since she had beaten him and was about to kill him when Aslan came to the rescue).

As for the others' choices, Peter was High King and Edmund learned to listen to his brother when they ruled in Narnia.

Susan was wrong in the movie for always seeming to take Caspian's side over Peter's.

I couldn't stand Trumpkin. He was another character that was messed up from the book. He was a lot more likeable in the book.

Reep was a knight who was willing to fight in a battle he considered honorable.

Caspian I believe has his own thread and I agree that he was also messed up from the book.

MrBob
 
inkspot said:
There would have been fewer lost if Peter had signaled a retreat -- instead he started bringing more creatures in for the bloodbath. And I think we can hazard a guess as to what he was thinking by the way the character had acted and posken up to that point. He felt Aslan had abandoned him, and everything was on his shoulders. His siblings even had to remind him that it was Aslan, not Peter, who defeated the WW. He clearly had a chip on his shoulder about Caspian, was a boy prone to get into unnecessary fights and wanted to be king! Based on all this which was evident in the film, I think we can say he wanted that victory for his own glory.
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Its actually only Lucy that reminds him, unfortunately its EVERYBODY, not just Peter that is just not listening to her, or thinking Aslan has abandoned them. When Peter delivers the line "Its up to us now, I think we have waited for Aslan long enough" he`s wrong but just saying what just about everybody else in the How is thinking.
None of the other plans that get proposed really are any better than the one Peter decides on, the plan is risky but just the best of a collection of bad options.
Remember, only Peter and Edmund (and OK, Lucy to a certain extent) have any sort of real battle experience in that group and both favour this plan over the others.

During the castle raid I think that if Peter decided to abandon it when Susan comes up with the suggestion they are going to have serious trouble getting everybody out alive.
Their group is badly spread out at different locations in the castle so getting the word out to everybody is going to be difficult and anyone left behind is going to be killed.
The three at the gate could run out of the castle I suppose but that is a LONG narrow bridge they have got to run across before they get to safety and it would just take a couple of Telmarine soldiers with crossbows or with a couple of horses in the right position to kill them.
Edmund, I suppose could get out as he actually does in the film by being rescued by the griffins and maybe with a bit of luck the three on the bridge could be picked up the same way but where does that leave the mice, Trumpkin or Dr Cornelius?
 
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well, lets go back to the LWW. He gets into this magical world, where he is made High King over all the other kings besides Aslan. And then, he leaves, after 15 years of being High King, and he is upset because he was king, and now he's just a kid, and thats all people will ever know him as. He is frustrated and wants to be king again. Thats why he gets into those fights (he obviously got into more than just one), because he obviously feels that people should respect him as a king, but they, as I have already said, only see him as a boy. And then, he gets back to Narnia, and he is better at first, because he is back where he feels that he belongs, and he is high king again and even when Trumkin doesn't believe that they could be the kings and queens of old, he calmly lets Edmund prove to Trumkin that they are who they say they are. He then learns about Caspian, and, I think, doesn't want Caspian to be king, especially after the Castle Raid. I think that Josh is right though in that the whole time, he is only doing what he thinks is best for Narnia; as High King, that was and is always what he has and does want, the best for Narnia. The Castle Raid would have been a success if Caspian had stuck to the plan and, after he didn't, if Peter had tried to call it off, I mean, they probably would have figured out a way to alert their troops and those infiltrating the castle of the danger. Then, the castle raid goes wrong, yet he keeps going, because, 1. It could still work, 2. I think his pride may have gotten in the way a little bit, 3. I think that he needed to prove to HIMSELF that he's still high king and that "he's still got it" if you know what I mean. He realizes that Caspian may or may not be the best choice for the new king of Narnia and when the White Witch is almost brought back, he is ready to stop her from coming back, again showing he wants what's best for Narnia, and after pushing Caspian out of that circle, is enchanted himself by the witch. He couldn't do anything about it, and though he should have known better, he listened to her, until Edmund stepped in. He changes completely after that. He does the duel with Miraz, RISKING HIS OWN LIFE SO OTHERS DON'T HAVE TO DIE and so that his sisters can try to find Aslan. He doesn't want to die, saying to edmund worriedly "What do you think happens back home, if you die here?" He is willing to die, but would rather not. One of my favorites of his lines is, after Miraz asks him if he is to cowardly to take a life, says "Its not mine to take." He is ready to let Caspian do it, showing that he has accepted Caspian, and that he is making a complete turnaround. And finally, in the end, he even gives Caspian his sword, a sign of his complete change, and says that he won't need it anymore. He doesn't seem bothered that he will never return to Narnia, and in fact, seems to accept it rather well.
Thats just my opinion. I think there was SOME pride involved. I don't think that he was a jerk at all, and actually, I probably would have behaved in a similar way! I mean, I'm the oldest in my family, well technicaly not, I have 3 stepsisters and my mom and stepdad (my dad died of cancer 2 years ago) but I still feel like the oldest kid in the family. I know that if I suddenly gained a ton more responsibility and then, after being so used to it, lost it all, gained it again,and find that I may not have it for very long, I would be the same as him. I think he is more realistic this way, as this is how many people would have reacted.
 
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There are two ways for Peter to respond after returning home after LWW. The first is what you stated, QueenLucy. He would become frustrated that he is not a king and people only treat him as a teenager. He woulkd then act as a teenager.

The second is how he presumable acted in the books. Peter comes back, having learned many things as king, and remembers those lessons. He acts older because he is older.

The problem with Peter in the movie was because what I wrote above. Why did people treat Peter as they did? Because he got into fights. Going with that fight where Peter and the other boy bumped, the response to bumping into someone is to apologize, not to get into a fight over who should apologize.

MrBob
 
I agree that bumping someone then getting into a fight over who should apologize is not the way to go. for a while I wasn't to sure about his attitude in the movie, especially because, to me, he seemed like he wanted to take Caspian's place as the rightful king, yet he says the complete opposite in the book. "We're not here to take your place you know, but to put you into it."
But that is not what he was thinking, now that I think about it. He only wants what's best for Narnia, yet his judgement was wrong. I think that he felt like everyone was doubting him, his sisters, Trumpkin, etc... and feels that he needs to prove to them, and himself even. When Susan asks him "Exactly who are you doing this for, Peter." it makes me think that he is trying to prove that he is the high king and that he is capable of fulfilling that role. It does bother me, some of the things he says, like when he says after fighting Caspian,to Reepicheep, "At least we know some of you can handle a blade."
There, he is clearly referring to Caspian, judging by the look on Caspian's face and the context. But I think that he only wants the best for Narnia and those in it.
 
I am about to throw my hat into the arena and careen helter-skelter into a fight to the death about the injustice done to all of the Pevensies save Edmund and that done to Caspian as well.

Peter may not be a "jerk" in the movie but if he is not then he is worse. He is faithless, he is lukewarm, he thinks he needs to do it all himself, he allows himself to go against chivalry, he does not put the Narnians or Narnia first, and he does not show that he learned anything from his years as king. He has short-term memory loss, he is whiny, if he were in Authur's court he would have been turned out because of his behaviour. I cannot see how any one could say that he put Narnia first; such is just as incredible as what they did to his character. As a brilliant battle strategist, he would have known as soon as he found out that Miraz's troops were still at the palace that the raid was going to be a bloodbath. I have long been a proponent of the Night Raid, in as much as it could have been a good scene if they had ended it right. But they coupled persistance with arrogance "I can do this," despiration with complete abandonment of strategy. The minute the alarm was sounded, the minute Miraz escaped Caspian's sword, a person who had been High King and a knight would have gotten his people out of there. Peter's Night Raid mentality is the exact same folly that Lewis so berated in Rabadash. In HHB, Lewis said that Rabadash should have quit the minute that he saw his plan not work. Peter, having been a High King at that time, would have known what a mistake like Rabadash's cost Calormen and yet Adamson shows him making the EXACT SAME mistake and then behaving EXACTLY the SAME as Rabadash when it did not work. Blaming everyone but himself. When I think of it it makes me sick. They also gave Peter Susan's faithlessness, Peter should have believed that Aslan was going to act and His time not theirs. He doesn't behave like a knight (taunt only those who are stronger than you--HHB) in his heading to Caspian, he does not behave like an experienced King (and a High King at that) in his dealings with Caspian and the rest, he does not behave like PETER in his disregard for Lucy's belief that Aslan will help or his treatment of Lucy in general.

Susan was given all of her skepticism but none of her Gentle good qualities that made up for it. She was the Warrior Princess, she was Xena, not Susan. On top of that, her flirtations with Caspian were almost cruel because she knew she could not stay. They would have made Aphrodite proud but not Aslan.

Caspian was also comparable to Rabadash's character, but he had more of the simpering and spoiled whininess. He was robbed of his awe, he was robbed of his respect (both that which he was giving to the Narnians and Pevensies and that which he earned from them). His character was weakened by his falling for Susan because he could not control himself.

Lucy also had her character weakened. Yes, she remained faithful to Aslan but at the expense of the whole reason Lucy became known as Lucy the Valiant. She should not have had to say "I think I could be brave enough." She was not scared of battle, she had been in many.

Edmund was left true to his character and that was the movie's saving grace.
 
That is exactly what I think, word for word, and better expressed than i could ever say it. ;) I seriously considered that Edmund might be my favorite character, not Lucy, after all. He really was the movie's saving grace. He was smart, loyal, intelligent, witty, and actually seemed changed by his previous time in Narnia.
 
I also didnt like how they handled Lucy's character. They made her "the gentle". Honestly, she is suppossed to be the brave one. I know she trusted in Aslan, but its a bit weird when she never shows up for the fight, while we have Susan "the gentle" shooting 50 Telmarines a minute.
 
But Lucy hadn't always been a child and should have been involved in battles since she was there. The next year she was ready to jump into the Sea Serpent battle and fight the Duffers
 
Lava, that was a brilliant oratory about Peter and Caspian. I will disagree with you about Lucy. She was scared in the book as well. It wasn't until she buried her face in Aslan's mane that her strength was increased.

I will agree they messed up her character in a different way. One of my biggest issues was having Lucy in the fight during the White Witch scene. On the one hand, she was a former queen who went into battle. On the other hand, she was a young girl. There was no way the filmmakers were going to have her kill anyone, but I hated seeing her losing the battle with Nik. She had no reason to be in the battle when the fillmmakers knew she wasn't going to be able to kill anyone.

MrBob
 
I think that the writers did go a bit overboard in Peters behavior, he did not have to be so... so 'high and mighty', which is how he is sort of portrayed. I think, though, that they show that he isn't all 'high and mighty' in the way he acts at some points in the movie. I agree that he could have acted a lot better, but think that his attitude was somewhat understandable. In the book, he says to Caspian "I haven't come to take your place you know, but to put you into it." I think that the movie Peter also sort of wants to take Caspians place, but not as much as I originally believed. I did not let Peters attitude ruin the movie though, so I got used to it, and think that Peter becomes a much better person by his experiences. I can probably word this better, but I am in a hurry to get downstairs and grab some dinner.... :)
 
QueenLucyTheValient said:
I think that the writers did go a bit overboard in Peters behavior, he did not have to be so... so 'high and mighty', which is how he is sort of portrayed. I think, though, that they show that he isn't all 'high and mighty' in the way he acts at some points in the movie. I agree that he could have acted a lot better, but think that his attitude was somewhat understandable. In the book, he says to Caspian "I haven't come to take your place you know, but to put you into it." I think that the movie Peter also sort of wants to take Caspians place, but not as much as I originally believed. I did not let Peters attitude ruin the movie though, so I got used to it, and think that Peter becomes a much better person by his experiences. I can probably word this better, but I am in a hurry to get downstairs and grab some dinner.... :)
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I definitely agree, Lucy. Peter's attitude doesn't ruin the movie for me at all. I really believe it was just an interesting artistic interpretation of his character. If we tried to point out every inaccuracy we would drive ourselves insane. I honestly didn't look at his change as a horrible thing, I thought it made for an intriguing development in his character. Definitely a twist.
 
yea, I agree that if we try to find everything thats wrong with this movie, or anything for that matter, we will drive ourselves crazy! Besides, everything has its flaws, and Peters attitude was an interesting development of his character. It shows that he is not perfect, as no one can be. I think that the Peter in the book is a little to 'perfect' and am glad that the movie writers showed that he is not perfect. But they could have backed off a little, and not made him so bad, or at least stuck in some scenes (like the Picking the Marshals deleted scene) that developed his change more. He was a good character and the pics on your banner, <TurkishDelight>, show that he is not all bad, and that he is a good person, just he has his flaws.
To develop something i said in my last post ("I think that the movie Peter also sort of wants to take Caspians place, but not as much as I originally believed"), I think that he wants to be high king again and is realizing that he can not be high king again because Caspian is taking that place. I think that is part of why he dislikes Caspian as much as he does originally. I also think that is why he continued on with the Castle Raid, because he needed to prove to the Narnians, and himself, that he can be high king, that he IS high king.
But his character is a good one, especially when he, like his brother in the LWW, slowly changes. I think that people are always dwelling on the faults of anybody, not what the person did right. Yes, Peter messed up, but he changed in the end, and that is what the movie writers were trying to show, that he went from thinking himself the best, and 'high and mighty' to being humble and thinking of others, and Narnia. Later in the movie, and even interspersed throughout the middle, that is all he thinks about, others and Narnia, not his own glory and self-satisfaction. Yes, its not until the very end that he shouts "FOR ASLAN!!!!" But everyone always sees him as being a 'JERK' all the way through, but he isn't that way all the way through ( and he isnt a jerk[which means "a contemptibly obnoxious person" btw] not in my opinion anyways) He changes, and that is what the writers were trying to show.
 
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To be quite truthful, The Susan/Caspian romance bothered me more than Peter's change. I severely disliked Peter's change, but it didn't entirely ruin my enjoyment of the movie AS A MOVIE, though I hated it as a book adaptation.

With the romance, however, I found myself cringing every time the two were together, and the kiss pretty much ruined the ending for me. Maybe I'm taking this overkill, but even though I hate Peter's transformation into a dweeb, I hate the romance and Susan's transformation into a warrior princess even more. If they HAD to include a romance (which they didn't), the could have at least done it WELL. I'm not a big fan of romances in general, but I relish well-done ones like in LotR. The petty, pointless crush between Caspian and Susan had no place in the story. They added NOTHING, and detracted a great deal!

Besides, it was quite cruel of Susan to try to make him interested in her when they knew they had no future together. It disgusted me how cheap the whole ordeal was.
 
*Cheers for Lucy*
Yes, my thoughts exactly, my friend! :) In the movie, it seems like Peter longs to be High King, but knows that it is not attainable due to the will of Aslan. It makes sense that he may develop a little resentment toward the man who is taking his place. So many people really hate Peter's character or even the whole movie because of this change and I think it's quite sad. :(
 
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