You know its easy to criticize movie Peter when watching the film but...

[QueenLucyTheValient]

@Lava: Well, with the WW, the circle was clearly an enchanting thing, and both he and Caspian fell under the spell. Even Movie Peter would have never listened to the WW, because he knew who she was and what she would do. But the circle enchantedhim so that he couldn't help but listen to the WW.
@Inkspot: When he said that he was not needed anymore, he meant that Caspian did not need their help anymore, or rather, Narnia was not in need of their services anymore. He was not blaming Caspian for anything, rather accepting him. If he did not like Caspian, the Movie Peter probably would not have given Caspian his sword, but he would have left it to Edmund or someone else, or not given it to anyone at all. I've noticed that sometimes it is not what you say but the way you say it, and if you listen to the way Peter was talking in the end, it is more of a calm, humble tone of voice rather than the proud, dominating tone of earlier in the movie. His change is very obvious to me, but its okay if it isn't to you... What I mean is that you may have had an entirely different interpritation of how Peter should have changed. I can see how they had him change and it works, I understand it and think it makes him a better character.
All I'm trying to point out is that he does change, and that is what was being shown ing the movie.

 

[Josh]

People don't only notice what he did wrong; everyone could see what he did right, what they are noticing is the way the script betrayed the themes of the book and the ethos of the times; they put a modern American teenager in place of a 1940's teenager who had already lived a lifetime as a king.

Okay, whats with the whole disdain towards "American teenager"? I think its offensive to be insulting American teens. I don't go around insulting British people.

Anyway, Peter wasnt bitter at the end of PC. When he said we are no longer needed and when he gave his sword to Caspian, it was almost a way of passing the torch down to the next generation of Kings. His job was done in Narnia and he was accepting it. He told Lucy "It's alright, one day you'll see too." That didnt seem bitter at all.

 

[QueenLucyTheValient]

Okay, whats with the whole disdain towards "American teenager"? I think its offensive to be insulting American teens. I don't go around insulting British people.

Anyway, Peter wasnt bitter at the end of PC. When he said we are no longer needed and when he gave his sword to Caspian, it was almost a way of passing the torch down to the next generation of Kings. His job was done in Narnia and he was accepting it. He told Lucy "It's alright, one day you'll see too." That didnt seem bitter at all.

Wow, that is a really good way to word and explain it!!! I was looking through some of the quotes and watching the movie (and the end repeatedly on my IPod to get a line..) and he really seems to accept that Narnia does not need him anymore and realizes that Caspian and his decedents are going to be the next kings, and he is perfectly okay with that. More than okay, rather. He seems to really have accepted it!

 

[MissReepicheep]

Okay, whats with the whole disdain towards "American teenager"? I think its offensive to be insulting American teens. I don't go around insulting British people.

I'm an American teenager! I know first-hand what fools they are! No, really! Even in my church, many teenagers are lazy, petty, and immature. Not all of them, by any means. But Inkspot's statement is perfectly valid.

 

[QueenLucyTheValient]

not all of them are fools though.. I know a lot of American teenagers, being one myself. All the ones I know are really nice, and a lot of the ones who I have talked to about this topic agree that the changes made his character more realistic, even the ones who have heard the book read and love the books and so forth. I also think that there must have been teenagers who acted that way back in the 1940's.. And Peter was not lazy by any means! He was very important to Narnia as well. And while he may have acted immature at some points, he does not stay that way through the whole movie...

 

[~Lava~]

Disdain is not the way to put it. I think at one point all of those participating in this discussion have been American teens. It is not that, though we are a fickle bunch. It is that the typical modern American (or British for that matter) teenager has no earthly clue how to handle a bomb raid every night. We didn't have to mature as fast as those who grew up during WWII. By their teens, some typical war-era British children had both parents off at war, had to stay away from their homes for over a year, had moms who did not work and had to support their families. Peter, having been the oldest male child in the family, would have had to mature faster because if his father died he was going to have to be the one who supported the family. The typical American teen of today has never seen a dead body up close, let alone one ripped apart by bombs that just happened to be a family member who had been sitting right next to them at dinner just hours before. The fact that we are even debating this with you shows that the typical American Teenager does not understand what a 1940's teenager went through and how that can impact ones life. I have long been a student of history and I don't understand it. Even before their first trip to Narnia, the Pevensies had probably seen stuff that would have made most of us sick. In addition, they had had to live on rationed food. Britain was at war and the war was on Britain's doorstep. Peter would not have had a chance to be spoiled or a brat, it just did not happen in a Blitzkrieg England.

 

[QueenLucyTheValient]

Lava- I have to admit, you are right. A 1940's teen would have had to mature much quicker than teens of today who have never seen the kind of destruction that a 1940's one would have. But that gives me an idea, prolly not a good one at all, but an idea. Could it be that it is not only the fact that he is sent from Narnia, but that he returns to a war-battered England that bothers him. I mean, that would be pretty upsetting, leaving a peaceful country and coming back into a war zone... It is a lame idea, but it could happen.. Maybe. I think that he has no excuse to act immature at the beginning, and even later, no one really has an excuse for that kind of behavior unless you are a 2 year old and don't know better. But honestly, I think that he is trying to be king again, when he gets back to Narnia, and he may even realize that his time is limited to prove it.
He could be feeling pressured to get everything right, and fix everything. He was under pressure to get things right and knew that if he or anyone else messed up, the survival of an entire country would be at risk, a country that he cared about very deeply.. He messes up, but some of his mistakes were done for the good of Narnia, and possibly because he was under pressure or needed to prove himself... Yes, he is not perfect, but that makes him more believable. He changes in the end, he realizes that he has done what he returned to Narnia to do. He passes the kingship to Caspian because he realized that while he was no longer the king king that he was still high king, if that makes any sense.. I mean as Aslan said "Once a King or Queen of Narnia, always a King or Queen of Narnia." so he is still king, but will never return, alive, to Narnia again... He accepts that rather well I think...

 

[AsbelMctalisker]

Consider also the pressure the Narnians themselves put him under.
Its, I think quite clear that what most of them are expecting from High King Peter is a heroic warrior who is going to magically appear and sort things out without them having to do all that much themselves.
Peter`s big mistake in the film is to try to live up to that at first.

 

[MissReepicheep]

The thing is that, back then, teenagers were supposed to be like miniature adults, not over-sized children. Peter would have his failings just like everyone else, past and present, but he wouldn't act like a little kid. People used to think that was shameful, not encourage it like many do today.

 

[QueenLucyTheValient]

Consider also the pressure the Narnians themselves put him under.
Its, I think quite clear that what most of them are expecting from High King Peter is a heroic warrior who is going to magically appear and sort things out without them having to do all that much themselves.
Peter`s big mistake in the film is to try to live up to that at first.

Yes! He has the pressure from all around him, from the Narnians, himself, Caspian, his sisters, etc... He feels that he has to live up to all the expectations that are thrown at him. Everyone expects him to be the perfect High King Peter, but he is not perfect, he never was, and he never will be..( or would be.. )

 

[~Lava~]

If the way he acted was trying to live up to the expectations around him then EPIC FAIL x 1,000,000.

His siblings would have expected him to act the way he did as King, not a whiny baby. The people around himwould have expected him to act as the stories told about him (Kingly in everything including willingness to admit his wrongs and grace-ful even in defeat not lashing out at others for his mistakes). The pressure he put on himself should have been to behave like he would if Aslan were watching because he was back in Narnia and would have known that Aslan could just show up when He wanted to and that Peter should always behave like a chivalrous knight. Peter also would have put pressure on himself to behave like a proper British gentleman of good family and on top of that Noble training (from Narnia). If you read the stuff that is said to Cor and Corin in HHB about what a good king ought to be, Peter, as the High King and what all Narnian kings afterward would have patterned their rule after, should have been a walking, talking epidemy of those things. Even if he was 1 year in our world out of practice being a king. You don't just change your complete personality (one that you have held over half your life and assuming that Peter's reign was longer than 12 years give or take it would have been such) in a year's time. Not unless you are acusing Peter of Schizophrenia.

 

[QueenLucyTheValient]

well, since he was under so much pressure, it could get stressful and add to the pressure he was under because he was trying to be perfect and trying to do what he thought was best, even when no one else agreed with him. It could be that the pressure added to his pride as well. I mean, he does have pride, but he is not a whiny baby. I think that his main problem was pride. In the fight he gets into at the beginning, (his worst moment in the movie) he got into it because he wanted more respect. He has his problems, but he sorts through them, with Aslan's help... At least that is my opinion. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion so that means that I am entitled to mine, and you are entitled to yours.

 

[~Lava~]

But pride is not a character trait that Lewis described for Peter in the book; not Peter as a powerful King in HHB, not Peter before he went to Narnia in LWW (remember the whole "we can handle it" scene is not in the book they went to the professor of their own accord), not Peter in Prince Caspain who even before they met Aslan in the book was willing to take the blame for bringing them the wrong way even if it was not his fault, not Peter in Dawn Treader who went to the professor for help with studying for his exams, not Peter in LB. If you read Lewis's other books you would realize how horrible a character flaw Lewis thought pride was; it is not one that he would have blessed or cursed a character who was supposed to be a good example for those who came after him with. Heck, if you read the end of Prince Caspian you will see that Lewis was not fond of the vice and did not think it a vice that a king should have.

 

[inkspot]

The thing is that, back then, teenagers were supposed to be like miniature adults, not over-sized children. Peter would have his failings just like everyone else, past and present, but he wouldn't act like a little kid. People used to think that was shameful, not encourage it like many do today.

Strongly agree - he would have been inhibited to act like a brat, even if he felt like it.

But pride is not a character trait that Lewis described for Peter in the book; not Peter as a powerful King in HHB, not Peter before he went to Narnia in LWW (remember the whole "we can handle it" scene is not in the book they went to the professor of their own accord), not Peter in Prince Caspain who even before they met Aslan in the book was willing to take the blame for bringing them the wrong way even if it was not his fault, not Peter in Dawn Treader who went to the professor for help with studying for his exams, not Peter in LB. If you read Lewis's other books you would realize how horrible a character flaw Lewis thought pride was; it is not one that he would have blessed or cursed a character who was supposed to be a good example for those who came after him with. Heck, if you read the end of Prince Caspian you will see that Lewis was not fond of the vice and did not think it a vice that a king should have.

Exactly, very good point.

 

[QueenLucyTheValient]

I never said that it was a good trait, or that I agreed with how Peter handled EVERYTHING, but I thing that it showed another side to his character. I would have LOVVVVEED his character if he was the way he was in the book, but the character change did not bother me.. I enjoyed the movie, thought that he was a VERY GOOD character and that he learned from the mistakes that he made... that was what I thought was the most important and most interesting part, that he learned from the mistakes that he made and ultimately was made a better person by those experiences...

 

[Josh]

The people around himwould have expected him to act as the stories told about him (Kingly in everything including willingness to admit his wrongs and grace-ful even in defeat not lashing out at others for his mistakes).

His mistakes? HIS MISTAKES!!!

Hello, it was CASPIAN who screwed up the Night Raid. It was Caspian being SELFISH in going against the plan in not one...but TWO occasions! First he wasted time by trying to get Corneilius (who would have been freed anyway if they had captured Miraz). Then he messed the plan up again by waking up Miraz when Peter and Susan were suppossed to deal with him. And not only did he wake him up, he LET HIM GET AWAY. C'mon, he had his sword pressed against his neck! And why did Caspian wake Miraz? BECAUSE HE WANTED REVENGE! He let thousands of Narnians die so he could go on a cliched "You killed my father!" rant. That is selfsh, immature, and it ruined a plan that could have brought the Narnians victory.

Caspian is really the selfish, jerk like idiot. Not Peter. Peter was just reacting as anyone should after someone defies orders and kills hundreds.

 

[~Lava~]

I was not saying that about the night raid (yes, Caspian messed it up) but the fact that Peter did not call it off the minute it was messed up. I was also discussing the fact that Peter blamed getting lost on the way to Caspian on Trumpkin in the movie (whereas, he took the sole blame for it in the book).

He played the blame game so often in the movie that I cannot say that he was King Peter. He was a kid convieniently named Peter who masqueraded as King Peter. He had none of His Royal Majesty's good qualities and more exagerated flaws than King Peter or any good character in the books had. He was Rabadash in King Peter's body. He was Pre-dragon Eustace with an imagination. He was Edmund at the beginning of LWW. He was one of Them in SC. He was petulant, he was annoying, he was faithless, he was stupid, he was the epidemy of all of the purposely flawed character that Lewis created to tell the stories. And in the end, he matured far less as a character than he should have for Aslan to say that he had learned all he needed to know from Narnia

 

[QueenLucyTheValient]

His mistakes? HIS MISTAKES!!!

Hello, it was CASPIAN who screwed up the Night Raid. It was Caspian being SELFISH in going against the plan in not one...but TWO occasions! First he wasted time by trying to get Corneilius (who would have been freed anyway if they had captured Miraz). Then he messed the plan up again by waking up Miraz when Peter and Susan were suppossed to deal with him. And not only did he wake him up, he LET HIM GET AWAY. C'mon, he had his sword pressed against his neck! And why did Caspian wake Miraz? BECAUSE HE WANTED REVENGE! He let thousands of Narnians die so he could go on a cliched "You killed my father!" rant. That is selfsh, immature, and it ruined a plan that could have brought the Narnians victory.

Caspian is really the selfish, jerk like idiot. Not Peter. Peter was just reacting as anyone should after someone defies orders and kills hundreds.

Yes!! Caspian really messed up, not just at the night raid either, but at the point with the witch. He could have easily called for help before the werewolf and hag got close, he could have even dealt with them himself if it was necessary!! He did not though. I like though how they have him saying "NO! This is not what I wanted!!" when he realized what was going on, but it also sort of shows that he was being selfish!!! It looks like they have changed his character in the next one, and he looks like he will be really awesome.
When Peter saw what was going on at the night raid, his first thought could have been about how to get the rest out and realizing that it would be very difficult because they had not planned for Caspian's selfishness (though if I heard that my father had been killed by my uncle, I would be upset too ), and second, that if he worked it right, the Night Raid could still succeed. That is why he started to go for Miraz later, after the battle had begun, because he realized that if you kill him, you would practically have won the battle! Then later with the witch, he saw what was going on with Caspian and immediately went to stop it from happening (stop the witch from coming back), then he stepped into the circle, which was the only mistake he made in that scene. He should have realized that that circle would be magical, but maybe did not realize that and maybe he just did not see it, but that was his mistake in that scene. He turns around completely in the next scenes, and so does Caspian, for that matter...
No one seems to notice that Caspian's character was changed significantly (not in his looks, cause everyone noticed that) but his attitude. In the book, he was totally in awe of and revered Peter and Edmund. In the book he says "Your Majesty is very welcome." which prompts Peter to say "So is your Majesty. I have not come to take your place you know, but to put you into it."
So yes, Peter messed up. I will not deny that. But Caspian messed up too, and I dont see why everybody is upset at how Peter reacted when Caspian was the selfish, immature jerk. Peter was reacting how anybody would have to somebody like that. He was annoyed, for one. Caspian kept messing things up, and it was his job to fix it. He was under LOTS of pressure to be PERFECT... There were a lot of things against Peter, so I think it unfair to judge him when anybody else COULD HAVE reacted the same way under the circumstances. (Note, I said could have, not would have, so no one will get defensive or anything)

 

[~Lava~]

Did you not read the second paragraph of my first post in this thread?

In my first post I enumerated ways that all of them save Edmund had been changed. I acknowledge that Caspian's actions did not make things easy for Peter. But, this whole "he was under so much pressure that it is no wonder he misbehaved" thing is driving me insane. The pressure Peter was under was nothing in comparison to situations that he would have had to deal with as King. Peter is not the ordinary teenager, not even for the 1940's. He has lived a lifetime having to deal with the pressures of ruling one of the largest countries in the Narnian world. He has dealt with foreign relations with places like Calormen (think about the Tisroc and his advisors at the time and then try to tell me that Caspian was any worse than them). In addition, Peter wasn't just a King and he wasn't just a High King; he was also an Emperor. He had battled evil things for the first part of his reign (so that he would know exactly what the circle was and probably exactly what it would do to him if he stepped into it). He battled giants and other countries. The stuff he dealt with in Prince Caspian (both the book and the movie) would have been nothing new to him. For movie Peter, it was not the first time he had had to deal with a whiny, immature suitor who was assiduously courting his sister. Caspian was a lot like Rabadash in that way. He had dealt with the mistress of the werewolf and the hag while she was still alive and still had an active wand.

For book Peter, exhaustion was the cause of his snappish-ness in the middle of the book not pressure. He had also dealt with things of the nature that were in the book. That is why he immediately thought out the challenge because it was the best chance they had of coming to quick and relatively blood-less conculsion. It also allowed for time for him to sure up defenses and get a relatively under-trained army up to speed with techniques. His biggest problem in the book was not losing any of the skills he had in the past, but rather being strong enough to perform things like rowing a boat half the day and then finding food and walking the rest of the day. Or fighting a full grown man when one is 13 or 14.

The thing is, like with book Peter, the only thing that should have inhibited Peter's ability to handle any situation thrown at him was his ability to perform tasks as a child that would have been taxing as a grown-up. Pressure should not have been a issue because it was stuff that he would have done on many occasions during his reign.

 

[MissReepicheep]

Did you not read the second paragraph of my first post in this thread?

In my first post I enumerated ways that all of them save Edmund had been changed. I acknowledge that Caspian's actions did not make things easy for Peter. But, this whole "he was under so much pressure that it is no wonder he misbehaved" thing is driving me insane. The pressure Peter was under was nothing in comparison to situations that he would have had to deal with as King. Peter is not the ordinary teenager, not even for the 1940's. He has lived a lifetime having to deal with the pressures of ruling one of the largest countries in the Narnian world. He has dealt with foreign relations with places like Calormen (think about the Tisroc and his advisors at the time and then try to tell me that Caspian was any worse than them). In addition, Peter wasn't just a King and he wasn't just a High King; he was also an Emperor. He had battled evil things for the first part of his reign (so that he would know exactly what the circle was and probably exactly what it would do to him if he stepped into it). He battled giants and other countries. The stuff he dealt with in Prince Caspian (both the book and the movie) would have been nothing new to him. For movie Peter, it was not the first time he had had to deal with a whiny, immature suitor who was assiduously courting his sister. Caspian was a lot like Rabadash in that way. He had dealt with the mistress of the werewolf and the hag while she was still alive and still had an active wand.

For book Peter, exhaustion was the cause of his snappish-ness in the middle of the book not pressure. He had also dealt with things of the nature that were in the book. That is why he immediately thought out the challenge because it was the best chance they had of coming to quick and relatively blood-less conculsion. It also allowed for time for him to sure up defenses and get a relatively under-trained army up to speed with techniques. His biggest problem in the book was not losing any of the skills he had in the past, but rather being strong enough to perform things like rowing a boat half the day and then finding food and walking the rest of the day. Or fighting a full grown man when one is 13 or 14.

The thing is, like with book Peter, the only thing that should have inhibited Peter's ability to handle any situation thrown at him was his ability to perform tasks as a child that would have been taxing as a grown-up. Pressure should not have been a issue because it was stuff that he would have done on many occasions during his reign.

That was PERFECT! I agree with you in everything!!!! You're exactly right!!!