You know its easy to criticize movie Peter when watching the film but...

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Yes, Peter is not the 'Normal' teenager, but he is a teenager nonetheless.. I think that he is a teenager, a very well experienced one, but a teenager nonetheless!!! Every teenager, even ones who have have some sort of experience dealing with the things Peter dealt with as king, will make their mistakes. His were bigger than most's, but still... He did what he thought was best, AS HIGH KING!!!!! He, as being high king, emperor of the lone islands, etc.. would have and did know what the options were; he saw that Caspian was not what he would have liked in a king, or what Aslan would have liked, which probably got him worried; he had the survival of an ENTIRE COUNTRY to deal with, and he was not sure if Aslan would come to help this time; he had his sisters turning on him; he had the Narnians expecting him to be perfect; and so forth...
Now, I never said that he "was under so much pressure that it is no wonder that he misbehaved" and he did not misbehave, because to misbehave, you have to have someone in authority over you telling you what to do and you disobey that. He was in authority over everybody except Aslan, and so I would call how he acted "making mistakes" like everybody does. He was trying to do his best, as a teenager and High King, to save Narnia from a tyrant almost as bad as the White Witch!!

It really seems to me like you guys are trying to impress what you think into those of us who thought the change they made in Peter's character was a cool idea, and like you don't want us to have our own opinion. If I have come across as being that way, I apologize immediately, because all I am trying to do is show you what I think and help you enjoy a good movie. My cousin and I, after seeing this movie, decided "not to judge a movie by its book." What we meant by that was, we would not criticize a movie to death because it did not have EVERY LITTLE DETAIL from the book in that movie. I, for example, think the Harry Potter movies could have been a lot better, but they are good movies, and I am not going to hate the writers for changing something to make it a lot more interesting of a movie.
Honestly, if you read PC you will see that it is not a book that would make a good movie if you did it exactly like it was done in the book. It would be an awful movie, to say the most. This is all just what I think..

Edit: and if anyone was the misbehaving jerk, it was Caspian for not listening to Peter, even when Peter messes up, it is the duty of people to serve their king. Now Peter was still High King, that is why I say this. Caspian should not have gone after Miraz, etc....
 
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No, what I am doing is debating. It is like a duel where you make a thrust and I parry it. I have based my arguments on empirical data. The only thing I haven't done is a full intext citation with attached Literature Cited. I am not trying to force my opinion on you I am making points that need to be examined in a debate like this.

About the authority, Peter by right was subject to no normal person in Narnia. But that doesn't mean that he was subject to nothing while in Narnia. His rank did not excuse him from oaths he took, nor did it excuse him from being subject to Aslan (who by the way is not Someone to trifle with); it also did not excuse him from the expectation placed upon a Knight. A knight of England (who started training well before the age 12 typically) would have been stripped of his arms had he behaved like Peter did. You ought to see the whited out shields in St. George's Hall of Windsor Castle, all of people who broke their duty to chivalry; their names are forever blotted of the record all because they broke faith with their king. The real Highest King of Narnia is not Peter, it is Aslan. There are many times in the movie that Peter breaks his faith with his King.

Excuse the movie reference if you have not watched it, but in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, the ending would not have been near as great if Prince Destan forgot all that had happened to him. They would have cycled through the same thing over and over again. I would like to think that if I suddenly found myself back at twelve back before Y2K (but retained all of my memories and knowledge bank) that I would be able to still have this conversation with people (though they would have no earthly clue what I was talking about) and still be capable of rational thought. I would still be a 24 year old adult even if I had the body of a tween and I for certain would not behave like a 12 year old and go and hide and cry everytime I got in trouble. Sure i would miss the freedoms I have now as an adult and being able to lift heavy weights and work for my keep, but that would not make me more likely to fight or more anxty. I would know what was wrong with me (and yes I do have stuff wrong with me) and work hard to function even better when I made it back here than I do now. On top of that, I would know that I already have conquered college and though I would work at the same if not harder intensity I would not have the chip on my shoulder against all the people who told me I couldn't. I would not change the effort I put into college (except to put out a better effort) nor would I change from what I am now to a whiny baby. I would not be a typical teenager because I would already have experience as an adult and therefore would know what to avoid and to keep my anger in check. How much more so would someone like my parents behave like an adult if thrust back into the their twelve year old year. Could you imagine your parents behaving like Peter did?
 
Regarding the night raid, there were three people in Miraz's room who were not supposed to be there. Caspian, Peter, and Susan. Caspian messed up by simply being there. Peter messed up by talking about their plans in front of Miraz and Pruni. All three messed up by allowing Miraz to escpae and alerting his soldiers.

Peter never acted like a former king until after the raid and his talk with Lucy. He was actually more kingly in LWW before he actually became king (starting from the time he meets with Aslan).

Caspian was shown as naive and vengeful until after the raid and his tak with Doctor Cornelius.

MrBob
 
Yea, Peter was subject to the laws of his people, like Caspian said about Miraz before the duel. But I was trying to get something across.
I feel that he was doing what he thought best for Narnia, especially considering the circumstances. The Night Raid was the only logical options thrown out in the debate before the Raid by anyone, or so it would have seemed at the time. Like Edmund said about if they stay at the how "Yes, and if they're smart, they will just wait and starve us out!" When Lucy suggests meandering through the woods searching for Aslan, it would not seem like a good idea, because, for one, you would be wasting time, and two, there is no guarantee that Aslan would show up (in Peter's eyes, though for most of the audience it would be obvious that Aslan would show up.) When Peter and Caspian get into that argument after the raid, I agree with Peter that if Caspian had stuck to the plan, everything would have been okay and would have worked out perfectly. Peter kept going because he felt that he could fix Caspian's mistake, and that, I will admit, was a mistake in-and-of itself. He is obviously a good person, he just makes mistakes, like everybody does.
I agree with Mr. Bob that after the raid and the talk with Lucy, he made a complete turn around, but I do not agree that he was more kingly before he met Aslan in the first one. In the first one, I think after he met Aslan, he really humbled himself and became much more brave than he would have been had he not met Aslan. In the second one, he changes completely after talking to Lucy. He is willing to risk his life so that his sisters can find Aslan, showing that he believed that Aslan would show. When he saw the trees moving, he realized immediately that it was Aslan's doing. When he gives Caspian his sword, stating that THEY were not needed anymore, he was talking about how Narnia was not in need of his and his siblings help, and he was obviously okay with that. He changed completely after talking to Lucy. That was what was important, what I liked, that he changed. He was a good, humble, brave king again. He was High King Peter the Magnificent again.
 
Part of the reason why I guess we will always disagree on whether or not Peter's change was good or not is because we interpret his actions differently.

Haters see him as a selfish glory seeker who believes he can do no wrong and whose only motivation is to be King again and to be praised. Haters believe at the end of the movie, Peter didnt change, but just "accepted" what was to happen and that he gave his sword to Caspian because he felt no one wanted him anymore.

Supports see him as a tragic character who really wants whats best for Narnia, but during the stress of the situation, goes about it the wrong way. Supporters believe that at the end Peter learned from his mistakes, renewed his faith in Aslan, and gave his sword to Caspian as an act of kindness and a way of passing the torch down to the new King.

Despite what evidence we use to try to persuade the other side the motivations of Peter's actions, I think everyone is just going to stand firm on their opinions.
 
I would disagree with the terms you used, Josh. I don't hate Prince Caspian, I bought it after all. I do not support the changes they made to Peter's character. It was completely unnecessary even with the changed plot to drag Peter and Caspian through the mud like that. For those us who do not support the change (don't call us haters) we find that the little things they throw in at the end to show how Peter has reformed his character back to what it SHOULD have been in the first place were too little, too late. To me, at least, it seems like they completely defamed Peter's character until there was much less than half the film left and then they changed him just enough that he was where bookPeter was before he met with Aslan at the middle of PC. Sure that change was at least ten times better than what he was at the beginning and middle of PC's movie but it still did not warrant Aslan saying that Peter and Susan (who by the way hadn't gone through any similar reversion to her queenly self) had learned everything that they needed to learn from Narnia.

Another thing that I would like to point out is that by the little changes they made in Peter in the first movie they set up the character defamation of the second. They gave Peter a little less of a courageous and adventurous spirit at the beginning of LWW. Then they had Aslan give him the title of King Peter the Magnificent which stroked his ego instead of having them earn their titles like they did it in the book. In the movies, Peter had a God-given right to be magnificent and heaven help you if you did not think so. The change and defamation was pre-meditated and that is what drives me crazy the most.
 
"Haters see him as a selfish glory seeker who believes he can do no wrong and whose only motivation is to be King again and to be praised."

Josh, I never saw Peter as wanting to be king again. It was more that he felt he was owed praise and accolades merely for being instead of earning the respect. He expected respect in the train station, expected to be brought back to Narnia, expected to just be listened to without question in Narnia, etc. He forgot that the best leaders must prove themselves to others.

MrBob
 
~Lava~ said:
I would disagree with the terms you used, Josh. I don't hate Prince Caspian, I bought it after all.
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I was referring to hating the character change, not haters of the movie.

MrBob said:
Josh, I never saw Peter as wanting to be king again. It was more that he felt he was owed praise and accolades merely for being instead of earning the respect. He expected respect in the train station, expected to be brought back to Narnia, expected to just be listened to without question in Narnia, etc. He forgot that the best leaders must prove themselves to others.
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But see, there lies the problem! When he was King during his 15 years in Narnia he did prove himself to others. Thats why he was so upset that people were challenging him. Because he had already proven himself.

Once again, I do agree that Peter's character made several mistakes but I don't believe he was being a jerk.
 
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So I just finished reading though all nine pages! And one thing that has botherd me sense the opening day of the film to this day is as QLTV says is how much people dwell on Peter at the beginning of the movie and how this seems to blind them to the way he is at the end.
At the end he is sad to leave Narnia but knows that Aslans knows what he is doing and is willing to give Caspian his sword.

The other thing that bothers me (when it comes to people being mad at Peter) is the night raid.
So it's all going good than Caspian is dropped a hint by Cornilius that Miraz might of killed his father so he goes to investigate. Peter gets mad, Caspian gets shot, Miraz gets away, and Susans stands like a dumbo over Caspian watching him writhe in pain when she could have shot Miraz and cept him in his room.
And sure Peter could have called it off but as far as we know it might have ended up the same way even if it had worked smoothley. Not only that but did you ever notice how he doesn't run out the front gate yelling over his shoulder to retreat but runs up to the Narnians and tells them to het out is at the back and moves his way forward telling them to get out. And also if my memories is serving me right (and please correct me if I am wrong) in the book Lewis mentions a battle where many Narnians were lost, in the movie the night raid is how they showed that one bit of the book.

For a while I think mainly on pages 6 thourgh 8 y'all were debating about the pressure on Peter.
First, the Narnians believe in magic, and thousands of years had gone by and over thousands of years the tales of the Kings and Queens of old had become like fairtales even for the Narnians (book and movie Trumpkin did not belive that Aslan was real and was very surprised to to find out the the Kings and Queens were real) and so the story might have been stretched and they may have been expecting a messiah like the Jews expected in Jesus day, one that would come and wipe the Telmerines off the face of the earth. Instead they got Peter who even though was High King for many years is still a normal person who has reactiosn to things like the rest of us.
Yes he had breading from being a king and the situation he was in back home in England but with the Narnians kind of thinking "Big motcho king comes and saves us!! Yeah!!" kind of hard to live up to that don't you think?
 
Aslans Messenger said:
So I just finished reading though all nine pages! And one thing that has botherd me sense the opening day of the film to this day is as QLTV says is how much people dwell on Peter at the beginning of the movie and how this seems to blind them to the way he is at the end.
At the end he is sad to leave Narnia but knows that Aslans knows what he is doing and is willing to give Caspian his sword.

The other thing that bothers me (when it comes to people being mad at Peter) is the night raid.
So it's all going good than Caspian is dropped a hint by Cornilius that Miraz might of killed his father so he goes to investigate. Peter gets mad, Caspian gets shot, Miraz gets away, and Susans stands like a dumbo over Caspian watching him writhe in pain when she could have shot Miraz and cept him in his room.
And sure Peter could have called it off but as far as we know it might have ended up the same way even if it had worked smoothley. Not only that but did you ever notice how he doesn't run out the front gate yelling over his shoulder to retreat but runs up to the Narnians and tells them to het out is at the back and moves his way forward telling them to get out. And also if my memories is serving me right (and please correct me if I am wrong) in the book Lewis mentions a battle where many Narnians were lost, in the movie the night raid is how they showed that one bit of the book.

For a while I think mainly on pages 6 thourgh 8 y'all were debating about the pressure on Peter.
First, the Narnians believe in magic, and thousands of years had gone by and over thousands of years the tales of the Kings and Queens of old had become like fairtales even for the Narnians (book and movie Trumpkin did not belive that Aslan was real and was very surprised to to find out the the Kings and Queens were real) and so the story might have been stretched and they may have been expecting a messiah like the Jews expected in Jesus day, one that would come and wipe the Telmerines off the face of the earth. Instead they got Peter who even though was High King for many years is still a normal person who has reactiosn to things like the rest of us.
Yes he had breading from being a king and the situation he was in back home in England but with the Narnians kind of thinking "Big motcho king comes and saves us!! Yeah!!" kind of hard to live up to that don't you think?
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I totally agree!!!
My brother, while seeing this, said to me "you're good at arguing.." I don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing...
Anyways.... I liked your point about how he, Peter, went to the Narnian's when calling them to reatreat. He went to them personally, he did not go to the gate and shout at them to retreat, he went to them personally, showing that he cared about them. He could have gotten himself out MUCH quicker... He, incase nobody noticed, was practically the last one out! He cared about the Narnians enough to wait for them. My brother just pointed out that, he only left after the Telmarines started shooting at them... he probably would have waited until every last Narnian was out of the castle before leaving, like in the LWW, he tried to make sure the Narnians got out first...
I think that it is a good point that the Narnians expected him to be a total savior, like when Trumpkin saw them, he was shocked that they were children, because they expected them to be adult kings and queens that would come swoop in and save them.... that would be hard to live up to as a child...
 
"When he was King during his 15 years in Narnia he did prove himself to others. Thats why he was so upset that people were challenging him. Because he had already proven himself."

Josh, everyone Peter had proven himself to were all long dead. These were new people who only knew him as the High King and the stories of old. He had to prove himself to them not to show them he was a leader, but that he knew what he was doing.

"I liked your point about how he, Peter, went to the Narnian's when calling them to reatreat. He went to them personally, he did not go to the gate and shout at them to retreat, he went to them personally, showing that he cared about them."

QueenLucy (and A-M), Peter was not a coward. He knew he was responsible for everyone since he was the leader of the raid. I don't think anyone is saying he was, but there were a lot of other terrible choices in leadership that were made.

"My brother, while seeing this, said to me "you're good at arguing.." I don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing..."

It''s good. If he said you were good at being argumentative, then that would be bad. Topics are better when there is good-natured arguing.

MrBob
 
"I liked your point about how he, Peter, went to the Narnian's when calling them to reatreat. He went to them personally, he did not go to the gate and shout at them to retreat, he went to them personally, showing that he cared about them."

QueenLucy (and A-M), Peter was not a coward. He knew he was responsible for everyone since he was the leader of the raid. I don't think anyone is saying he was, but there were a lot of other terrible choices in leadership that were made.
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What I meant was that that shows that he cared more for the Narnians then his own life.

Josh, everyone Peter had proven himself to were all long dead. These were new people who only knew him as the High King and the stories of old. He had to prove himself to them, not to show them he was a leader, but that he knew what he was doing.
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I think that Josh was right in that he had already proven himself to Narnians and felt that there wad no need to prove himself again.

@all who said that they agreed with my brother.. Well, I do believe that you are right, it is a good talent when used properly. :)
 
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Been largely silent because of school obligations.

It probably is no surprise to you all but I am agreeing with Mr. Bob. Peter would not be surprised about having to prove himself again. He understood the situation. To the Narnians, he was a legend the type of thing that people kind of doubted existed or felt that the story was overblown.

Oddly enough, the words came from Peter's mouth in the book. He said that their coming back would be like what would happen if the Ancient Britons came back to England now. It would be like King Arthur coming back to England now when people doubt there was such a person. It would be like Robin Hood coming back and shooting a tournament in front of the Mythbusters and having to actually split an arrow down the center for them to remove their "busted" stamp. Peter understood the thought that people would not know what to do with their coming back. That is why he had Ed prove that they could fight to Trumpkin.
 
I think that Josh was right in that he had already proven himself to Narnians and felt that there wad no need to prove himself again.
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It probably is no surprise to you all but I am agreeing with Mr. Bob. Peter would not be surprised about having to prove himself again. He understood the situation. To the Narnians, he was a legend the type of thing that people kind of doubted existed or felt that the story was overblown.

Oddly enough, the words came from Peter's mouth in the book. He said that their coming back would be like what would happen if the Ancient Britons came back to England now. It would be like King Arthur coming back to England now when people doubt there was such a person. It would be like Robin Hood coming back and shooting a tournament in front of the Mythbusters and having to actually split an arrow down the center for them to remove their "busted" stamp. Peter understood the thought that people would not know what to do with their coming back. That is why he had Ed prove that they could fight to Trumpkin.
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yes, you are right, Lava, that he would have known that he had to prove himself again. But would that make it any easier to do it or bear the realization that you would have to do it all over again??? It would be frustrating to know that you would have to prove yourself again, even if it was to new people, especially if they should know all about you from the stories. That is reason enough not to have to prove yourself again...

What I meant was that that shows that he cared more for the Narnians then his own life.
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To elaborate, I have noticed that a lot of people think that he was doing it for selfish gain and what not. This, I think, shows that he cared about the Narnians more than himself. Someone who cared only for selfish gain would have left right after he realized that his plan was failing. Peter did not. When he realized that the Castle Raid was not working and that they had to get out of there, he went to the Narnians and told them to get out of there, he ran around the courtyard, trying to get them all out. When he saw that the Narnians all knew to get out and were starting to retreat he then retreated. The look on his face when the gate shut just after him was realization. He realized that he messed up, he realized that he was VERY lucky to have made it out alive, and he looked very sad and remorseful. When he got mad at Caspian, he was probably not only sad and angry with himself, but tired, and don't tell me that a 1940's teen would not have reacted that way when tired, sad, and angry, because I am almost positive that even a 1940s teen would have reacted like that under those circumstances.
 
"you are right, Lava, that he would have known that he had to prove himself again. But would that make it any easier to do it or bear the realization that you would have to do it all over again???"

Easy QueenLucy? No. Proving oneself to others will never be easy. But the fact is that he did it once. Peter already presumably made the mistakes and learned the lessons to make himself a better leader.

The movies are making it as if nothing is ever remembered when one goes back into Narnia. In the books, PC in particular, it talked about how the Narnian air helped them to remember their skills. It should also help them to remember their tact and diplomacy they learned.

"I have noticed that a lot of people think that he was doing it for selfish gain and what not."

He was acting as if he was owed when he figured he deserved to be back in Narnia in the beginning. He acted more like his ideas were the right ones and was surprised when others questioned him. I cannot see the Pevensies ruling only with those who were yes men. There had to have been people who questioned their moves, such as their three siblings. In a battle, you cant afford to have anyone to question immediate orders and Caspian was wrong in doing that. I think most people ageee. We can also agree that Peter cared for everyone who was under his command. A single loss of life is sometimes too much for a commander.

Peter had a right to be mad at Caspian for messing up everything, but he was way out of line for how he talked to Caspian when they got back and definitely for both of them losing their tempers and drawing swords on each other.

"It would be like Robin Hood coming back and shooting a tournament in front of the Mythbusters and having to actually split an arrow down the center for them to remove their "busted" stamp."

Lava, not only do you aree with me, but we also both like Mythbusters I can't think of anyone else who has ever brought up Mythbusters in such an intersting way, though :D

MrBib
 
yes, MB, but did you see what I went on to say? If not here: "It would be frustrating to know that you would have to prove yourself again, even if it was to new people, especially if they should know all about you from the stories. That is reason enough not to have to prove yourself again..."

He was acting as if he was owed when he figured he deserved to be back in Narnia in the beginning. He acted more like his ideas were the right ones and was surprised when others questioned him. I cannot see the Pevensies ruling only with those who were yes men.
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Well, in the beginning, he was just upset that he had been taken from Narnia and his glorious reign as High King. I agree that he did not handle himself the way he should have, but I do think that they showed that he changed in the end, a lot!!
 
yes he changed but i think they could have shown it just alittle more. But he did. yes i would also be mad to have to prove myself again, but the true narnians would show in how they would still believe and follow him without the need for proof.
 
Last night, I re-watched Prince Caspian in preparation for the 10th. Again, I was struck by how arrogant Peter was. There have been times when I have wanted to go in one direction, and someone else wanted to go in another, sure that would be the way. I have insisted that I was right, but when we went a little ways and found out otherwise, I would apologize and admit that I was selfish. Peter did neither of these. And then he refused to listen to Lucy. I understand that her observation seemed unlikely, still, he should have listened to her in respect instead of shutting her up because he thought he was better.

Later, in Aslan's how, Lucy wants to give input and Peter belittles her, saying, "You shouldn't even be listening." If he HAD to say that, he could have said it in a protective way instead of a belittling one which implied that she was too young and foolish to help them.

Watching the castle raid sequences again, I see that it was Caspian who messed up the plan. He was an idiot, and I don't deny that, but it doesn't change the fact that Peter was an idiot too. And when they returned to the how, Peter flatly refused to acknowledge that he had made a poor leadership choice. He yelled at Caspian and did not accept that they shouldn't even have been at the castle to fight. Yes, Caspian messed things up, but Peter was responsible too, and he should have accepted that.

But I still maintain that the worst part of the movie was the quasi-romance. It made me sick.
 
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