You know its easy to criticize movie Peter when watching the film but...

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TheRadiantSouthernSun said:
yes he changed but i think they could have shown it just alittle more. But he did. yes i would also be mad to have to prove myself again, but the true narnians would show in how they would still believe and follow him without the need for proof.
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Totally!!! They could and should have showed that change. I love how you worded the part about how the Narnians should not need him to prove himself again.
I think his change is very obvious in the end, and I don't think he is being arogant in the end
 
MissReepicheep said:
Watching the castle raid sequences again, I see that it was Caspian who messed up the plan. He was an idiot, and I don't deny that, but it doesn't change the fact that Peter was an idiot too. And when they returned to the how, Peter flatly refused to acknowledge that he had made a poor leadership choice. He yelled at Caspian and did not accept that they shouldn't even have been at the castle to fight. Yes, Caspian messed things up, but Peter was responsible too, and he should have accepted that.
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About the end when he yells at Caspian. I think he did feel some of the blame but he was really upset whenever I watch that scene and watch the way he acts I can see the look on his face while he is watching the Narnians being slaughtered, he knows he mest up and is mad at himself he just takes it out on Caspian because he believes that it might have been fine if Caspian had stuck to the plan, but he is still mad at himself.
 
Aslans Messenger said:
About the end when he yells at Caspian. I think he did feel some of the blame but he was really upset whenever I watch that scene and watch the way he acts I can see the look on his face while he is watching the Narnians being slaughtered, he knows he mest up and is mad at himself he just takes it out on Caspian because he believes that it might have been fine if Caspian had stuck to the plan, but he is still mad at himself.
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Thank you!!!! I always feel SO sorry for him at that part!! It is so sad, and I think that there, he is realizing that he messed up. When he yells at Caspian later, he knew that he messed up, but also knew that if Caspian had not done what he did, they could have won!!! It would have worked had all of the troops not been there, even after Caspian messed up. But if Caspian had not messed up, it definitely would have worked!! He is realizing that it is his fault, but does not want to admit it.
 
QueenLucyTheValient said:
Thank you!!!! I always feel SO sorry for him at that part!! It is so sad, and I think that there, he is realizing that he messed up. When he yells at Caspian later, he knew that he messed up, but also knew that if Caspian had not done what he did, they could have won!!! It would have worked had all of the troops not been there, even after Caspian messed up. But if Caspian had not messed up, it definitely would have worked!! He is realizing that it is his fault, but does not want to admit it.
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Thats very true as is a number of othe comments people have made about this but in addition, I think that some of Peter`s frustration at what the Telmarines have been doing over the centuries is coming out here and Caspian is the only Telmarine that he can vent his anger at.
Remember what he actually says to Caspian about his father and his fathers father having no right to rule Narnia (and he is actually dead right in his comments).
Caspian, who at that point is still behaving like an arrogant Telmarine prince, (his ambition is still at that point for the Narnians to restore him to the TELMARINE throne!) is unwilling to accept his own mistakes and feels insulted so they both almost come to blows, after which frustrated that the Pevensies hav`nt just gone along with his own plans but have instead taken over the leadership of the Narnians, then allows himself to be persuaded to summon up another ancient power that might be more willing to give him what he wants.
 
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I think Caspian is alittle to eager to take over Narnia. He's only what? 20. and Peter has 15 years of ruling. He should have just stuck to the plan. Yes Peter could have been a little nicer in how he confronted Caspian but still. Peter had made the plan and THEY ALL agreed with his plan.
 
TheRadiantSouthernSun said:
I think Caspian is alittle to eager to take over Narnia. He's only what? 20. and Peter has 15 years of ruling. He should have just stuck to the plan. Yes Peter could have been a little nicer in how he confronted Caspian but still. Peter had made the plan and THEY ALL agreed with his plan.
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I certainly agree that Caspian made serious mistakes. I also see how the castle raid might seem like a good idea to Peter, even though it was really risky and bad. Regardless, Peter should have taken responsibility for his actions.
 
ok i will agree that he should have taken the responsibility for what he did.
 
"It would be frustrating to know that you would have to prove yourself again, even if it was to new people, especially if they should know all about you from the stories. That is reason enough not to have to prove yourself again..."

QueenLucy, he had no choice but to prove himself. Even though they were all worshipped being the Kings and Queens of old, they still had to prove themselves. This was the sword fight between Trumpkinm and Edmund--they had to prove they were who they said they were.

Everything that Peter and the three others did represented who they were. They had to prove they were strong kings and queens of old. They had the responsibility to act as they did in the past. The most telling line was when Peter introduced himself to Trumpkin as King Peter, the Magnificent, to which Susan quipped, "You could have left of the Magnificent part" (or something close to that). Peter did not live up to his moniker until after his major loss.

I agree, though, that he changed in the end. The change, however, was expensive, coming at the expense of the lives lost during the castle raid.

MrBob
 
AsbelMctalisker said:
Thats very true as is a number of othe comments people have made about this but in addition, I think that some of Peter`s frustration at what the Telmarines have been doing over the centuries is coming out here and Caspian is the only Telmarine that he can vent his anger at.
Remember what he actually says to Caspian about his father and his fathers father having no right to rule Narnia (and he is actually dead right in his comments).
Caspian, who at that point is still behaving like an arrogant Telmarine prince, (his ambition is still at that point for the Narnians to restore him to the TELMARINE throne!) is unwilling to accept his own mistakes and feels insulted so they both almost come to blows, after which frustrated that the Pevensies hav`nt just gone along with his own plans but have instead taken over the leadership of the Narnians, then allows himself to be persuaded to summon up another ancient power that might be more willing to give him what he wants.
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I never thought about it that way!! That Peter is upset at what the Telmarines are doing and have been doing for centuries to Narnia. Caspian is the only Telmarine around to vent his anger on. He should not have vented it out on Caspian but he did.
You are right. He was dead right that Caspian's ancestors had no right to rule Narnia, but you would think that he could have said it differently, because he obviously knew that insulting Caspians father was a poor idea and would provoke an angry response.
I honestly think that Caspian is the worst one in that movie. Caspian wanted his throne back, and he wanted to do it his way. He should have listened to someone who had 15 years of experience leading the Narnians. Peter would have known what to do, and he does not listen to his reasoning. He is just naive, I think. He listens to Nickabrik because of that naivety, but is still very selfish in the way he acts until after he realizes his mistakes. Then and only then does he go along with Peter's plan.
I think that Peter could have handled himself a little better, like controlled his anger and frustration, which was possibly mostly if not all directed at the Telmarines and what they are doing to the country he was commanded by Aslan to rule and protect.

Plus, in the book he had some of the same problems, just more subdued!! I am currently reading the book and have noticed that. He doesnt have the problem with Caspian but the way they made Caspian in the movie makes it ALMOST justifiable to me....
 
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Yes QueenLucy, what he said about caspian's dad, he knew it would make Caspian mad. It's almost like he really wanted too. And yes that does reflect badly back on to himself. But still some of the blame lies with Caspian. Caspian should have seen the mistake he made in the Castle raid and should have admitted that what he did had coasted them many lives.
 
Yea, exactly!! I believe that Peter was spot on in what he said to Caspian, the way he said it could use some work though. I think that Peter was upset that the telmarines had invaded Narnia, the country he loved and would give his life trying to save.
Caspian, I think, made the worst mistakes in the movie. He went after Miraz when he learned about his father, ruining the Raid and losing many lives; he listened to the hag and the werewolf, bringing the witch into the room in a way so that she could tempt others with her magic like she did to Ed in the first one; he let his emotions take over completely, and while Peter did to some extent, he had more self control. They both made mistakes, but I think that half of the ones Peter made were made as a result of Caspians mistakes..
 
yes. i mean if somebody invaded my home or city i love i would be mad to but Caspian let his emotions cloud his judgement and thoughts. If he had stuck with the plan, most of the lives that were lost would not have been lost. and yes, Peter exploded at Caspian but only because Peter was stressed with the fact that half his army was gone. I would be streesed to but I think there were faults on both sides of the story. Caspian did wrong at the raid and Peter should have reacted calmer.
 
Yea!! I would be mad as well! I know if I found out that someone invaded a land that I would have given my life trying to defend I would be angry as well. Also, if I had 15 years of experience ruling that country, leave, and then come back to find a completely naive and selfish person coming to rule that country I would be concerned about that country's well-being!
After the Night Raid, Peter realized that he messed up, but also realized that Caspian messed up, and hated the Telmarines for what they had been doing to Narnia. He was very protective of those he cared about, and so naturally felt that he needed to protect the COUNTRY that he loved from the evil that the Telmarines had brought to Narnia. His mistakes, I believe, were made as a result of Caspian's mistakes and feeling as if he had to fix them all.
Caspian made MANY mistakes. He was naive and selfish and only wanted what he wanted and wanted it done the way he would have it done. When the Pevensie's came back, he expected them to go along with his ,very emotional, every whim! His mistakes caused Peter to make his own mistakes. I'm not saying that Caspian was the cause of all Peter's mistakes, obviously, but that he was the cause of some of the major ones...
 
But this all begs the question of how good or bad of a leader in battle Peter was. I mean, sure he was good, and very strategic in the stories. But in the movies they make him out to be arrogant...like he was conceited. So, to respond to the title of the thread, I think the movie retained his prowess as a skillful leader, but, by adding the conflict between Caspian and Peter, they underminded his character. His motivations are pure in the book and prideful in the movie. And as for Caspian, he is very accepting of and adherent to, all of Peter's guidance. He looks to him for leadership. It's definitely not a good change-in fact there's a poll on here showing that it's considered by fans the worst change made from the book to the movie. That and the kiss were the least popular. Some may see these changes as an enhancement, but I think more see them as a skewing.
 
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To be honest, it looked to me that in the film Caspian had a chip on his shoulder as reguards Peter almost from the moment that the Narnians join forces with the Pevensies.
Trouble is, its clear from the way he`s depicted in the film is that he is dangerously naive about some things and has`nt a clue how to lead the Narnians.
So there is I think something of a political power struggle going on.
Peter, as the High King of Narnia automaticaly assumes command according to ancient tradition but Caspian`s nose is then put somewhat out of joint as he is the rightful hair to the Telmarine Throne and he feels that he should lead as a result.
 
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Yes. He is very naive and selfish in my opinion (Caspian). He wants to be the king, and then Peter comes along and assumes his rightful spot as High King, and Caspian is upset.
Pete has to deal with Caspian's naivety, jealousy, and selfishness. He also has to save an entire country from the Telmarines, prove himself to a people that he should not need to prove himself to, and live up to everybody's expectations!! He is probably stressed, after the Castle Raid tired, and everybody is against him. I like how the Centaurs and Trufflehunter especially trust Peter from the beginning.
Caspian has a lot to learn as far as ruling Narnians. He is, as I have said multiple times, naive and selfish. He does not have ANY experience ruling Narnians, or anyone else for that matter!!! He should listen to Peter, who has a lot of experience ruling Narnians, but he does not. He is only thinking about himself until he learns from his mistakes... Peter is thinking about Narnia as a whole, not just himself. Peter is not naive or selfish, he may have a little trouble with pride, but all in all he is a good King...
 
Caspian did mess up severely by going after his uncle during the raid, but as High King, Peter should have pulled out at that point. If he would have done that, the Narnian troops would not have come in and they could have gotten out. So both are at fault there.

As for everything else, Peter was having pride and entitlement issues before they even got back to Narnia (the fight at the trainstation). What we have to realize is that while Caspian's professor taught him about Narnia, he did not teach him everything. When Caspian was drawn into the circle, he didn't know what was happening. When he realized that it was the White Witch he tried to get out, but they held him there. So he got himself into a bad situation, but not purposely. And while he knew of Aslan he never had the opportunity to rely on Aslan as Peter had. Peter was bitter that Aslan never brought them back to Narnia, so he wouldn't listen to Lucy when she said she saw Aslan. Even Edmund said "Last time I didn't listen to Lucy, I ended up looking stupid" or roughly something like that. He should have looked for Aslan.

But then that's the lesson of the story, right? Let go, and let God. When we try to do things on our own, in our own way, we often fail. When we seek God and do it His way, we come out better for it.

So, no... Peter wasn't a "jerk." He was like so many of us in our daily life trying to find our own solutions. But that also means that he was far from being the sacrificial hero either.
 
Peter wasnt a jerk, but he screwed up.

However, I don't think his lashing out at Caspian was necessarily a bad thing. If he acted like what Caspian did was all fine, then Caspian would keep making stupid decisions like that. Peter needed to get on Caspian's case.

Anyway, as far as Peter and the rest of the Pevensies war skills...well let me just say this.

In both the Night Raid and the final battle, there are several shots where Peter, Susan, Caspian, and Edmund just stand still and stare at the battles around them. They stare for a long period of time before either calling a retreat or resuming a fight. Honestly, they would be killed in real life if they did that.
 
Caspian did mess up severely by going after his uncle during the raid, but as High King, Peter should have pulled out at that point. If he would have done that, the Narnian troops would not have come in and they could have gotten out. So both are at fault there.
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Well, Peter really couldn't have pulled out effectively.. And Peter was not the only one who could have pulled out anyways! Susan, Caspian, or Edmund could have given the order to pull out because they all have the authority...

Peter wasnt a jerk, but he screwed up.

However, I don't think his lashing out at Caspian was necessarily a bad thing. If he acted like what Caspian did was all fine, then Caspian would keep making stupid decisions like that. Peter needed to get on Caspian's case.
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Peter was not a jerk, you're right.. He did mess up, but he was not a jerk!!
I did not think about Peter's getting on Caspian after the raid in that way... He did need to get on Caspian about his mistake, and as high king, he had the authority to do so. I think that he did not need to insult Caspian the way he did. I think that he wanted to insult Caspian. He was angry that the Telmarines had invaded, he knew how to insult Caspian, and wanted to do it because of his hatred of the Telmarines.
Peter did what he thought was right, and what would be the right thing for Narnia. He wanted to help Narnia and knew that it was his job to do so. Caspian, in my opinion, was the selfish jerk, if anyone was a jerk...
 
Think about Peter and Caspian's first meeting. After the swordfight between the two, where Caspian shows a reverence, Peter then insults him after Reep introduces himself by telling Caspian that "at least some of you know how to handle a blade" (paraphrased). This was a direct insult to Caspian and undermined his leadership in front of his army.

MrBob
 
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