This is the fifth interview in the NYC Prince Caspian series. In this interview, we have producer Mark Johnson talking about the challenges that they faced with bringing Prince Caspian to the screen. He spoke of the difference between the filming of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, and Prince Caspian, and the possibility of combining Caspian with Dawn Treader.
Mark Johnson: Who have you already talked to?
Paul Martin: Almost everybody
Mark Johnson: So, you all saw the movie last night?
Paul Martin: Yes, very much enjoyed it.
Mark Johnson: Oh, good, perfect.
Reporter: Tell me about the challenges going into a second one. The first is always hard because there are no expectations, but now you have so many expectations. What are those challenges?
Mark Johnson: You know, the first one we were so mindful of the readership, the loyal readership to The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, and didn’t think we could make a lot of changes. Because we almost felt that the audience was sort of daring us to make a movie that was faithful to the book. I’ve done a lot of movies based on books, from The Natural to Donnie Brasco to My Dog Skip to The Notebook, and a lot of them: we’ve made big changes. We made big changes to The Notebook and The Natural, for instance. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe we just didn’t feel that we could do it. And we were very, I felt, very faithful to it, and that’s what the audience told us. Even to the degree they’d say things like ‘gosh it was so great that you were so true to the book, loved the scene in the frozen waterfall,’ which of course is not in the book, but it just felt that it was in there. On this one, two things: one, we felt that we had the trust of the audience, that they knew that we were not trying to bastardize the books in any way. And we also felt that Prince Caspian the book didn’t really lend itself to a movie. Didn’t lay out as a movie. We were really perplexed. Andrew and I talked, briefly, about possibly combining it with The Voyage of the Dawn Treader. So we made some structural changes and elaborated on some things that are in the book. But I think we’re still very faithful to the characters, the journey of the characters, and to the themes of loss of faith and regaining faith that are in the book. But the readership is so strongly loyal and these books are so vivid in so many people’s minds that you just have to be careful about not playing around with them.
Reporter: Did you ever run into any licensing problems using the books? Or how does that work?
Mark Johnson: No, because the C.S. Lewis Estate works sort of hand in hand with us. And, in fact, Douglas Gresham, who is C.S. Lewis’ stepson, is a co-producer of the film with us. So they’re very involved. And they read all of the scripts and are involved in casting and luckily, we have a wonderful partnership with them and we like working with them a lot.
Reporter: You also have a partnership with Walden Media, with the travelling show with the costumes, and what have you. Why did you see a need to keep this going?
Mark Johnson: I’m not involved in that. I know that there’s, right now, a sort of exhibit, I think at Disney World. I’ve never been to it, but I’ve seen what it is. It’s supposed to be as much promoting the books as the movies. And the world of Narnia. And, as it turns out, these movies will be.. in a perfect world every two years we’ll have one out there. So it also keeps them alive.
Reporter: Were you surprised by how much money the first one made? Because there’s a good movie, and there’s a great movie, and then you go beyond into the stratosphere. How surprising was that for you?
Mark Johnson: I know.. I know.. It’s always surprising. People said ‘Oh, you must have seen it coming.’ You didn’t really. That’s a lot of money. We did three quarters of a billion dollars worldwide box office, you know, and we were successful everywhere. You can’t and I can’t take it for granted on this one. People said ‘Oh, of course you’re gonna do fine, you’re a sequel to a successful movie.’ I don’t think that’s true, and there are examples of movies that weren’t that successful. You still have to make a good movie. That kind of money is pretty staggering. But then again, I just heard that Iron Man did thirty-eight million dollars yesterday, so it’s sort of like… numbers.. it’s all sort of relative. You know… who knows. Most of the films I’ve produced have been successful, but nothing on that level. Rain Man did probably about four hundred million worldwide, or something like that, but most of them are much more modest than that. So all of a sudden to happen to do one in those numbers is both exhilarating and a little scary.
Reporter: Do you have a Narnia jet?
Mark Johnson: (laughter) Well, my yacht says The S.S. Narnia. No, there’s no yacht. No, a lot of people share in the success of it. For me, I’ve never done a movie like that. I would see some of those big fantasy effects films, and say ‘how do they do that? how do you do a second unit and a third unit, and visual effects where you have a character talking to a two-inch mouse which is really just a tennis ball on a wire that somebody’s moving around like that, you know. And so I just wanted to do it. And then I just fell in love with the world of Narnia. And what’s great about the franchise is that each book is so different from the one that preceded it and the one that follows it.
Reporter: You mentioned all the things you have to deal with, the CG effects and everything. How important is it to have somebody like Andrew who knows all that stuff?
Mark Johnson: Well, it’s remarkable, because often a director will be involved in a big visual effects film, and he or she will say to the visual effects supervisor: ‘can I do this?’ or ‘can I do that?’ Andrew knows those answers better than anybody. He has a great team around him, but he knows those answers. So that he is invaluable. And yet at the same time, I was telling somebody earlier, the most important thing is that you not… it’s all about characters. It’s all about characters in the story. And so the effects can be great, and the locations are great, but at the end of the day, those are the side-dishes. So what you have to keep mindful of, when you’re looking at dailies there on the set, is ‘do I really care? Is this moment coming across?’ Because it’s so easy to get distracted and say ‘oh good, that explosion went off beautifully there, and the camera moved like this and that.’ But it’s really in the face of an actor and whether or not that actor shows, or can somehow give you the feeling.. the sensation that you want out of him or her.
Reporter: I have no doubt this film will do well, but it is coming out in a summer that is ridiculously overloaded with potential blockbusters. The first movie came out over Christmas. Was there any kind of hesitency to release it in the summer? Especially like this one?
Mark Johnson: Well the first movie made sense for Christmas, and not just the snow. Father Christmas and all of that. It was very much a Christmas film. We were told at the time we were gonna get stomped by King Kong. And we ended up taking care of the big ape. Ironically, the only place in the world that King Kong did better than The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is in New Zealand. Which.. Andrew Adamson is from New Zealand, as is Peter Jackson, so I don’t think Andrew took it well. (laughter) But, you know, it’s ideally, I think the adage, or what people want to believe, is that successful movies beget successful movies, so people start going to the movies again, and yeah. It’s really scary. I look at Iron Man is going to do over a hundred million dollars this weekend, and next weekend is Speed Racer. The next weekend is us. The next weekend is Indiana Jones. And there’s The Dark Knight, and a bunch of really good movies coming out there. So hopefully we’ll stick around. There’s no doubt that Indiana Jones will be number one movie of Memorial Day. So we’ll see. It is scary.
Reporter: Because you mentioned the worldwide success of the films, do you notice more of a fervency in the fanbase in England as opposed to the United States? Or is it pretty common across the board?
Mark Johnson: I think it’s pretty common across the board. You know what’s interesting: New Zealand, when we did The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, all of our crew members had read it as children. C.S. Lewis was one of the staples. It’s not quite as across the board in the U.S. But in England and Australia and New Zealand, everybody has read those. And I don’t know if that’s true of just fantasy books in general. And a lot of people have said to me over the past six months, ‘aren’t you worried that fantasy films are falling apart?’ And there are a couple of movies that they could point to. And I always think that those movies just didn’t have the characters, and consequently the heart, that hopefully we have. Because at the end of the day, in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, the scene that’s most important to me is not the big battles, and flying this and talking lions. It’s really Lucy meeting Mr. Tumnus, and you say that’s sort of the heart and soul of the movie and that’s why the movie works.
Reporter: Andrew said that he had signed on to produce the next one, too. Will you still be a producer, and how do you feel about the next director?
Mark Johnson: Well I think that the perfect person to direct the next movie would be Andrew. And Andrew’s not going to do it. So you say, alright, who’s the perfect person after Andrew? And Michael Apted is a director I admire a lot and he’s very strong with performances and consequently story. And I think The Voyage of the Dawn Treader is a perfect movie for him to be doing. And, I think, it’s not that he hasn’t done big visual effects films – he did a James Bond film – but I’m excited about that. And of course Andrew will still be involved. One of the smartest things they did on Harry Potter was have Alfonso Cuarón direct the third one, and in many ways he was not a likely candidate; he had just done Y tu mamá también. He and I had done A Little Princess together, so I knew that he would be perfect for that, but I’m not sure that the world did.
Reporter: What was it about Ben Barnes that fit the role of Prince Caspian?
Mark Johnson: I think it’s…in a strange way you needed to buy him more, as a character who wasn’t sure of himself – who didn’t think he was a prince or a king – than, when at the end of the film, when he becomes that person. In many ways, the key moment is when Aslan says ‘rise kings and queens of Narnia’ and the four Pevensies get up and Caspian stays down, and he says, ‘all of you’ and Caspian says ‘I do not think I am ready.’ I like that Caspian, and that’s what we needed in it. We didn’t need just a good-looking, heroic, self confident young man, but a man who was, I guess, vulnerable. And we saw hundreds and hundreds of actors for that part. And Andrew had originally thought that the Telmarines would be this pirate race, so he liked the idea that they had a Mediterranean accent. Spanish, Italian, French – somewhere in there. So we saw a lot of boys and young men from Spain, Mexico, Italy and it was hard. You need the character, you need the physicality, you need the vulnerability, you need the ability to play that accent. And then, also, in some cases, also be able to speak English well.
Reporter: With the success of the first movie being so huge, was there ever any danger of this one having too much money available to you?
Mark Johnson: Well, that’s an interesting.. there’s never enough money, no matter what you do. I executive produced a film called Ballast that won the Sundance Best Director award, this year, and we did it for nine hundred thousand dollars, and there wasn’t enough money there, and all of a sudden you’re doing a movie that’s seemingly hundreds of millions of dollars and there’s never enough money. But the beauty of making films and not having enough money, from a producer’s standpoint, is that it forces you to be resourceful and inventive, as opposed to, ‘okay, we’ll just sort of throw money at the problem.’ And yet, when you are in this world and you are creating characters, believable characters, it just unfortunately costs a lot of money. There are people who do it, you know, people I’m constantly trying to learn from. I’ve become good friends with Guillermo del Toro because Pan’s Labyrinth was made for a lot less money, and it’s visual effects were pretty remarkable. But, you know, Aslan has to be completely believable. If you don’t believe that’s a real lion, I guess until Liam Neeson’s voice comes out of his mouth, then we’ve failed.
Reporter: At the end, I was getting ready to scream, because ‘Where’s Aslan?’ You guys were really able to milk it, and keep the movie exciting to the very end! Because I was looking for this lion to come.
Mark Johnson: I know… I know… I’m really pleased to hear that. It’s in the book. It’s a hard one, because Lucy’s sister and brothers may be dying in the middle of a battle, and yet she’s having a conversation in a field, you know, with Aslan. And yet, he comes in and wakes the trees and saves the day.
Reporter: Thank you!
Mark Johnson: Thanks everyone, and so long!
Up next, the final interview in the series, before we move onto the next day in the NYC Prince Caspian series. Look for the interview with Ben Barnes, Prince Caspian himself, soon!
