In an interview about Dorian Gray, Ben Barnes was asked about the Voyage of the Dawn Treader. Specifically, what may have changed between the book and the film. This is a question that we all have about the film, and though many fans would like to see the film shot page for page with the book, movies are completely different animals. Sometimes books don’t translate very well into movies as they are written. In our own minds they seem as movies, though, and based on each of our own imaginations, when we read Narnia, each of our experiences is going to be different. So how do you take C.S. Lewis’ very loose, open descriptions to film and make everyone’s version? You really can’t. But what about a story like that found in this book? Well, on film, it needs more than the book has. Here’s what Ben has to say about it.
Let’s talk about the “Dawn Treader” movie. I know you can’t reveal any spoilers, but what’s in the movie that’s different from the book?
Ben Barnes: They’ve stolen a couple of ideas from some of the later [“Chronicles of Narnia”] books. [It’s] a very difficult book to adapt, because it’s very episodic. It’s chapter by chapter. They go on the voyage, they go to one island, a bit more voyage, another island, a bit more voyage, another island. It’s very satisfying to read; every chapter by chapter, it’s very exciting. But it has no real through line. And so they have to kind of steal other elements to sew it all together. I think they’ve done it in a really clever, unobtrusive way.
What’s interesting is the first thing he says here: they’ve stolen a couple of ideas from some of the later (emphasis added) books. The questions I have now are: What books and what ideas from those books? Anybody have ideas for what it could be?
I definitely have some ideas. I don’t know if this will turn out to be right, but I think this has to have something to do with the “mysterious little girl.” It might also be related to slavery and Calormen. Here’s what I said on Examiner.com: “So, apparently the filmmakers are doing something to deal with the episodic nature of the story that will tie the threads of the book together. Will that something involve the
How about Puddleglum? Maybe he comes in, or the owls? The green snake that kills Caspian’s Wife, maybe it’s in there somewhere. I read VODT this summer, and I do realise that mostly it is, sailing, island, sailing island. But in the book, the SAILING ties the islands together. It felt like one whole book to me, and I didn’t see any need for EXTRA CONTENT. Also, in the BBC version, THEY were able to tie the islands together very well, and they had a smaller budget. Just because this movie has a bigger budget, doesn’t mean they should cram everything they can into it, just because they have the money too!
~ReepicheepFan
Think about this: what is the purpose of the whole voyage? What was the need to go, the driving force behind the journey? Is there really a big problem with devising a problem that can only be solved by going on the voyage?
Interesting, but I don’t think anybody needs to overreact or get upset over it. The ideas could simply be subtle hints or nods to other books. Or they could be very small things in general.
Minor correction. Shasta did not run away because he was “about to be sold into slavery”. He ran away because he overheard his “father” say that Shasta had come from the North and he realized he was probably from Narnia. I do agree however that something related to slavery may be included in the movie. I doubt the green snake or Puddleglum will make an appearance. My concern with pulling ideas from other books is what does it mean for the future? If they’re taking ideas from later books, is the intention to stop with VotDT and not continue making more movies?
The first thing I think of when he says: ‘ideas stolen of other later books’, is: ‘Do they do that because they are not gonna make the other later books??’
Ofcourse that doesn’t need to mean it at all, but still..
Elentari, You might want to read the first chapter of A Horse and His Boy again. Shasta overhears his “father” haggling over what price the Tarkaan would pay for him. He then finds out from the Tarkaan’s horse what kind of master he is. They agree to run away together. The motivation is to avoid slavery under a cruel master. Other considerations might also have convinced him to run, but this was certainly one of them.
Well it seems that there will more Narnia.
Those “purists” who have expressed concern have usually said something like: “Isn’t the purpose for the voyage that is stated in the book to find the seven lords that were banished under Miraz? There is already a motivation, so why create a new one?”
Since I am not one of the filmmakers, and am not able to read their minds, I do not know for certain why they felt they needed to add to the story. But I would imagine that they felt the “seven lords” motivation was not compelling enough to convey in a movie. I can certainly understand that. You want the viewer to care about what is going on, and it would be difficult to cause people to care about seven lords who have not been introduced in the other films.
And, assuming they are going to expand on the issue of slavery, I don’t see this as at all outside what Lewis was wanting to convey. It is a theme this is explored in the book after all.
That was intended as a reply to Paul Martin above.
I did read the first chapter. While the two men were haggling over Shasta, Lewis does say that Shasta DIDN’T CARE since he was pretty much a slave anyway (until Bree tells him that his master is cruel). The real revelation was that he was not the fisherman’s son. His conversation with Bree resulted in them both running away as it was mutually beneficial to them both, not JUST so Shasta could escape slavery, since he was essentially a slave already.
Expanding on the slavery is an interesting idea. Although, they already have some of that with Caspian, Edmund, Lucy, Eustace, and Reepicheep being captured by Pug. I think it would strengthen the story line a bit. After all, VDT would be a bit difficult to tie together because it has so many different things (Island of Dreams, Dufflepuds, Lone Islands…) going on in the story.
One thing I hope they are going to include in the movie is Eustace’s journal. It brought out his spoiled-rotten nature and was some comic relief!
Elentari, Lewis simply says that Shasta didn’t react as most people would at their father bargaining with another to sell you. First, he already resigned himself to the idea that he was going to be sold, and then he tried to imagine what could happen to him. He also imagined who his real parents were.
I am disturbed that the filmmakers apparently can’t figure out a way to film this book well enough. It’s episodic nature I figured would have been perfect. Also, early art made it seem as if the Green Lady was going to be somehow involved. Is that how they will link with future books?
MrBob
I have wondered whether the danger to the creatures of Narnia mentioned on Walden’s site might have had anything to do with the Green Lady, or with Calormen. I’m not out to make theories about it at this point, though.
And I was thinking the girl seen on the ship in the photos might’ve been either a Galmian or one of the slaves freed in the Narrowhaven market… maybe someone from an island east of the Lone Islands captured by Pug’s crew, who they aim to return home along their way. *shrugs* Just an idea.
…Or, she could’ve been a daughter of that one lord who’d settled in the Lone Islands, just coming to see the ship with her daddy.
A couple of months ago I saw some pre-production stuff and from that look it seems they added the witch from The Silver Chair in it already. And something about her steeling the souls of children and Caspian saving them and that in the next film the witch killed his wife out of revenge.
i like that idea
The whole reason Caspian went on the Voyage was to find the seven “lost” noblemen that his uncle, Miraz, had sent away when he killed Caspian IX. Caspian X went to find the lost lords, and he found every one, even the one who died in the water that turns things to gold. Each island has its own adventure, and that is what the story is that ties all the “sailing, island, sailing…” together. In the end of the book, Caspian has to sail back to Narnia, and brings his wife, the daughter of the old star.
The next book, The Silver Chair, starts with Caspian X being a very old man.
The information about the Green Lady/Witch from Sliver Chair is new to me, and actually very exciting. It indicates the filmmakers are thinking ahead and are actually are planning on Silver Chair as the next film. They are using this to create interest in the next film.
A problem with The Chronicles of Narnia has always been motivation to go on to the next book. Each book is complete in itself, which is great, but there is no real cliffhanger or “unfinished business” (Think Harry Potter.) inducing the reader to go on.
So, I actually think these developments are very positive, indeed.
Actualy, he overheard his father and the Rich Calormen (Anradin) talking about selling him into slavery. Then he overheard that he was from the north. Next Bree told him that the Tarkaan was actually cruel, so he said, “I had better run away.”
Well, searching for the 7 lost lords was compelling enough motivation to make it a best seller, nay, a classic for 50 years! I’ve seen enough movies based on great books (i.e.Lord of the Rings) to know that they really change them. The attack by the Wargs for example wasn’t in the book at all. So I think that they will change Voyage so that when they are all sold as slaves, Caspian has to track them down to all the islands they were taken to, and have many “Pitched battles” to get them back. Unlike in the book where he just says, “All the slaves in this market will go free.” That just doesn’t sound exciting enough for a movie, now does it?
~ReepicheepFan
In response to Tarwe, I hope that they leave the journal in too! That was one of the best parts of the book, I don’t know how they will do it in the movie. Also, I am excited (and nervous) to see how they do Eustace swinging Reepicheep around by the tail. In the book, it’s in flash back mode, in the BBC it’s not in flashback, and in the Audio Books, it happens in the middle of Lucy, Edmund, and Eustace looking over the ship. Let’s hope they don’t leave out the journal, maybe it will be a “thought thing”, where you hear his voice as he writes in his notebook.
I reckon it will be a Calormene theme. I wonder whether they’ll base the voyage on some sort of competition or chase between the Calormenes and Narnians. That way, the other country will be already a feature of the film prior to their importance in HHB and LB. We have mentions of Calormene crescents in the book so it would seem fair enough on the Lone Islands for something to happen.
They may even add in some sort of skirmish later on so that Hollywood can be sated with some sort of mass bloodshed!
To be honest, I’d be fine with that. I just hope they don’t introduce some unrelated stroyline that takes away from the meaning of the book.
I was trying to say that they will save the Narnia movies!
If you like Narnia it is about GOD! If you are insulting me, talking about Like Bless God, and insulting me You Are Not Being Like GOD! Also NOT TURE CHISTRAINS!!!!!
It hurt me alot!!!!!
well, i think the filmmakers probably know that for narnia fans–book and move–just keeping w/ the book would be enough for everyone to love it (at least i would!!) but for those who are just seeing the movie w/out knowing a whole lot of background will need more “excitement” to keep them hooked. i’m excited to see what they do w/ it. i just hope they don’t do something totally weird that’ll ruin everything!! though, i will say, normally i can’t stand movies that leave the book in the dust, but w/ pc (which, in my opinion is the worst book adaption i’ve every seen) that didn’t apply…i totally loved the movie (better than lww, in fact, which stayed closer to the book). so as long as the filmmaker do a good enough job that their changing the book will be overruled by the movie just being simply really good, i think an added storyline will be good. i also agree w/Mark Sommer about how tying in themes from other books will add more suspense for coming movies. i definitely don’t think it means they aren’t planning to do the rest of the books.
Out of the options they could have chosen as an excess threat in the plotline, the Green Lady is actually one of the more justifiable ones. However, I think it robs Silver Chair of a lot of its power to bring her into the picture early–The unanticipated threat to Narnia, Rilian’s guard being down and his astonishment at discovering the Green Lady who he fell in love with was the same as his mother’s killer, the army lurking beneath an unsuspecting world… How do you have a Narnia naively at peace when there is a Powerful Enchantress KNOWN to be at large?
I don’t want to jump on the film-makers’ back about everything they do. I happen to have enjoyed many, though not all, of the alterations they made in Prince Caspian–and I wasn’t one of the people booing at the Waterfall Scene in LWW. (Their handling of Aslan in LWW, on the other hand…) However, building a soul-stealing witch subplot into VDT sounds rather.. extreme, whatever their justification. I sincerely hope Flip’s informants were wrong.
i’m looking forward to seeing what elements from the other books i’m guessing maybe some of the elements from the horse & his boy or the silver chair, it will be intresting to see how many adaptions there are to the VODT it should be exciteing 🙂
In response to lionesslucy, I thought that Prince Caspian was the most boring of the Chronicals of Narnia, and that it needed more spice and fighting. In the book they stand around for 12 chapters talking about what they are going to do, then the last 5 chapters they actually go and do it. So I’m glad that they changed it into something with more action.
A soul stealing witch? WHERE DID THEY EVEN GET THAT IDEA?!?!?!
Lily_of_Archenland: I doubt the witch (assuming they do use this) subplot would be “extreme.” From what Ben Barnes said, it apparently will be subtly done. Ben said, “I think they’ve done it in a really clever, unobtrusive way.” As to whether she will be “known to be a large” by the time of The Silver Chair depends on how this is dealt with.
As I said above, I am excited that the filmmakers are thinking ahead to how to link Dawn Treader to the next movie. It indicates The Silver Chair is in their plans. At least it looks to me like this is what they are doing.
Oh good grief! While I do agree that some kind of conflict that puts a “time crunch” on the voyage would add more punch, a soul-stealing Green Lady? Please no. A greater threat, sure. A witch after children? I saw that in LWW. Honestly, my issue with adding to the story-line is that something always gets cut out, and the cut is always authentic Lewis material. Yes, I’m sure “added stuff” gets cut too, but who misses that? But what is going to be offered on the altar this time? Someone mentioned perhaps having Caspian have to hunt down each person instead of just marching through proclaiming “everyone is now free”. I remember reading that scene in the book and watching it in the BBC version and thinking it was a great display of Caspian’s kingly authority. Indeed, it was done just that way because the Lord Bern said that in order to win back the islands Caspian needed to act as if he had a greater force than he did at his disposal. If the movie shows him taking the island in a more forceful way, I think it takes some of the irony of how he actually DID re-take the islands. On a bluff. But you just have to watch Prince Caspian to realize “kingly authority” is usually reserved for the bad guys these days. Which probably means Gumpas won’t be a coward either.
Sorry for 2 back-to-back longish posts. I have lots of thoughts. 🙂
“As I said above, I am excited that the filmmakers are thinking ahead to how to link Dawn Treader to the next movie. It indicates The Silver Chair is in their plans. At least it looks to me like this is what they are doing.”–Mark Sommer
Perhaps that is their intention, but it would be a first for the franchise. And any connection–that is not a subtle hint perhaps mentioned in dialogue–would be a pretty major shift in the storyline “as we know it”. Professor Lewis connects the stories through the characters, not through the plot. He makes an express point at the end of PC to say that Peter and Susan won’t come back, but nothing is said about E and L. Hence, the Voyage. Then in VotDT, he introduces Eustace and we learn E and L can’t return. In SC we meet Jill. I think one of the reasons for this is he didn’t intend to write 7 books when he started, but I also think the fact that each of the 7 books can stand alone is a strength. As movies, both LWW and PC stand alone quite well, but like the books, they are better when you bring them together. Remember, whereas LOTR is MEANT to be 1 long story about the same people, CoN is a HISTORY of one PLACE connected by the experiences of 8 children. The “connection” should be made in the advertising.
Mark, are you saying they should have somehow added to the plot of LWW something that could lead them into PC, like meeting up with a few Telmarines on their chase to find the White Stag? Or should they have surprised Caspian with the completed Dawn Treader at the end of PC?
The books are individual, with great links already in them. What’s so wrong with seduction by the Green Witch in TSC? Why the need for vengence because of something that happened twenty years previous?
MrBob
“to see how they do Eustace swinging Reepicheep around by the tail. In the book, it’s in flash back mode”
Actually, in the book, it’s not in flashback mode. Eustace’s recollection of him giving Reepicheep “a playful tug on the tail” is the flashback…!
Elantari: “it would be a first for the franchise…”
MrBob: “Mark, are you saying they should have somehow added to the plot of LWW something that could lead them into PC…”
Well, that’s just silly. There was no serious thought of making a second film until they found out how incredibly successful LWW was.
The emphasis in my post is the thought that the franchise is thinking of future movies, which is a good thing. I am trying to “get into their heads” and understand what they might be thinking. I did not say whether any of these ideas would be good for Dawn Treader. We simply do not know that at this point.
One more thing. Let’s remember that the “soul-stealing witch” idea was from a leaked script that was said by the studio to be “experimental” and very early. The studio even realized that some of the ideas in the leaked script could cause fans “distress.”
It does seem that there was thought from the start on how to connect the movies. How they intend to do this is very unclear at this point. The only fairly safe conclusion is that the “mysterious little girl” probably has something to do with how they decided to handle it.
So, let’s not panic yet. 🙂
Lots of interesting ideas above! I’ll throw my guess into the pot. Since the books got increasingly more philological in the later (published order) books, there could be some introduction of the Calormen and the differing “religious” belief systems. These were definately one of the main themes of TLB and AHAHB. However, I’m not convinced that it would be able to support an entire major movie production plot line in the context of the story that is being told in VODT.
My guess is that the main purpose for the voyage in the movie will be to get to Aslan’s Country right from the get-go. Then, the fact that they begin to start finding the lost lords will become a bit more incidental to the story, but not lost entirely. This could place a bit more of an introduction to, and a bit more suspense on seeing, Aslan’s Country in the beginning of the next story. In any event – the production photos thusfar look great, and I’m excited to be able to sit my rump in front of the big screen, pay my $20 for popcorn and drink, and return to Narnia yet again when this movie comes out.
I couldn’t agree more!
Oops, I meant theological… not philological. My bad 😛
Whenever I think of that Soul Stealing witch, all I can think about is the Wizard of Oz! Just picture it, Reepicheep, Lucy, Edmund, Eustace, and Caspian, all looking out to sea and seeing the Wicked Witch of the West flying around on her broom! No! That would just be wrong!
yes, i would agree that the book isn’t all that exciting, but i don’t agree w/ those who say that it’s the “weak link” in the series. if you read it analogically it’s very powerful. however, to portray it in a film it does need some extra spicing up!
that comment was for reepicheep fan. idk why but the reply button nvr works for me…my comment always just goes to the bottom of the list! sry!
Whatever!
well Paul i believe that the voyage was partly curiosity
but the reason was that Caspian had undertaken a oath to find the seven lost Lords of Narnia. and the book is fine all by
it self it doesn’t need anything else
A bit ago I kidded about having the Lady of the Green Kirtle come into the Dawn Treader movie. Boy, I sure hope that doesn’t happen. Just like when we were kidding about Susan and Caspian liking each other….
This is such a neat book, full of adventures. I understand that PC was hard to make into a movie because of the slow plot, but DT isn’t like that at all! I really hope they don’t add too much.
Interesting, Reep! That actually makes a bit more sense than some of the theories I’ve heard so far. Hopefully it will be like that, and not much more.
Responding to quiet-wyett:
Actually, it is kind of in flash back mode. Reepicheep chases Eustace into the mess hall where they are all eating. Next the book says, “Here is what happened” or something, then told the whole story. I consider that a flashback.
To Narniamiss:
Which Reep are you referring to, me or Took?
BenBarnesLover–Ditto. “Whatever.”
That’s pretty much what this whole thread is saying… either “Whatever, I’ll stick to my opinion,” or “Whatever are they doing to My Precious?” depending on who you’re talking to. 😉
DAILY REFERENCE!!!!
also, you guys are very funny. i love narnia fans.
“i say, where is that blighter eustace?” -my fave. line from vdt.
Eustace is Will Pouter
I was replying to “Took”.
I just wanted to add a little bit more to my post.
The soul-stealing Emerald Witch is a very interesting idea. Granted, it would add a TON of drama to the story, BUT I don’t think I like it very well. First of all, having the main characters chase after the Witch changes in story majorly! (I mean, if people were upset about the Raid on the Castle in PC, what would they think of this?!) Caspian, Edmund, Lucy, Eustace, and Reep are already searching for the Seven Lords. Secondly, when a bad guy is after somebody’s life is one thing, but when the villain is gripping at their souls is just too creepy! Thirdly, if they take ideas from the other books, wouldn’t they just have to add that much more to them?
These are just a few thoughts. VDT is perfect as a book, but I DO agree VDT needs a little added to make it fit a movie better… just not a soul-snatching Witch who wants little kids.