Hey, everybody! Welcome back to “Through a New Wardrobe”, where we sit down and chat with some of today’s hottest writers who have been influenced by CS Lewis and the Land of Narnia. For today’s interview we sit down with author Christiana Hale, author of the book Deeper Heaven: A Reader’s Guide to CS Lewis’s Ransom Trilogy!
NF: Tell us a bit about yourself, for our readers that might not know much about you.
CH: I grew up surrounded by the mountains and rivers of North Idaho, which despite being primarily associated with potatoes, is one of most beautiful places on earth (and I am entirely unbiased). I was homeschooled (K-12) and I credit my mother with my love of reading and learning and also with my first introduction to Lewis through the Narnia stories. I have wanted to be a writer since I first started reading at five years old and entered my first story into a writing competition when I was in first grade. A few years after graduating high school, I moved just a couple hours away from home to attend New Saint Andrews College in Moscow, Idaho in 2011 where I went on to receive my B.A. in Liberal Arts & Culture (’15) and my M.A. in Theology & Letters (’17). I am on track to graduate with my MFA in Creative Writing next spring (’22). I am currently a junior high Latin & English teacher at Logos School, a private classical Christian school here in Moscow.
NF: Can you give us a quick teaser for Deeper Heaven that will give us an idea of what we’re in for?
CH: Deeper Heaven is primarily aimed at helping those readers of the Ransom Trilogy who have been befuddled by it – those readers who, perhaps expecting something along the lines of “Narnia for adults”, didn’t get what they were expecting and perhaps even gave up. It is meant to give footholds so that all readers can go “further up and further in,” gaining more insight into Lewis’s reasons for writing the trilogy and the inspirations and influences that make it such a rich and vibrant work of literature.
NF: What were your inspirations for the book Deeper Heaven: A Reader’s Guide to CS Lewis ‘Ransom Trilogy.
CH: As I already mentioned, I have had a love for Lewis from an early age. However, my love for the Ransom Trilogy didn’t come about until my freshman year of college when it was assigned in a rhetoric class. I had tried to read it years before in my early teens but didn’t make it beyond the first few chapters of Out of the Silent Planet. When I first say that it was assigned reading, I was dismayed – I hadn’t liked it before and now I had to read it because it was assigned for a grade and, being the perfectionist student I was, I wasn’t about to skip the reading. But reading the trilogy for the first time was a turning point, not only in my career as a student and a writer, but in my life. I decided in that moment that I wanted to write my undergraduate thesis on the Ransom books. In my research for that project, I read everything I could get my hands on and throughout that process I had many questions directed my way from friends who had struggled in their own readings of the trilogy. And I didn’t really have a good place to point them – there wasn’t one book that answered all of the questions that they were asking. And that is where the idea for a reader guide was born.
NF: I’d never heard of Romans Road Publishing before reading your book. Tell us more about them and how you came in contact with them for publishing your book?
CH: Roman Roads primarily publishes classical Christian homeschooling curriculum. I have known the CEO/Founder Daniel Foucachon for many years and I had previously taught a few online classes for them (one of which was on C. S. Lewis). They have published a few of my articles in their magazine and on their blog and so they were a natural choice for contacting about this project. They are fans of Lewis and they are a joy to work with. Not many authors get as much hands-on creative input as I did, particularly not on a first book.
NF: In what ways did C.S. Lewis inspire you as an author?
CH: I’ve always appreciated the way that Lewis can put into writing those things that are a fundamental part of human experiences. He captures emotional and spiritual realities with his words without being overly flowery or superfluous with his language. He can thread deep theological issues into the bones of a simple children’s story without being didactic or preachy in anyway and his writing is profound by nature of its very simplicity. But I do think that the way he most inspired me personally as a writer is actually found in his nonfiction academic writings. One of the things that impresses me the most is Lewis’s ability to write an academic essay that is utterly brilliant without sounding dry or patronizing or snobbish. He doesn’t write in a style that requires the reader to have a Phd in the subject in order to understand it. He is quite clearly a genius, but he is a genius who knows how to write about difficult subject matter with a wit, clarity, and simplicity that belies its complexity. Lewis is not afraid to let his personality be present in his academic writings, something which would have gotten him a rap on the knuckles from most high school writing instructors. This clarity and creativity are elements that I strive to emulate in all of my writing, but in nonfiction in particular.
NF: What was your favorite Narnia book?
CH: As difficult as it is to pick a favorite, I would say The Horse and His Boy. I love the setting – it is the only Narnia book to take place in Calormen and Archenland – and the themes of providence and obedience. I also have a soft spot for horse stories since I was a bit obsessed with horses when I was young.
NF” What was your favorite book in the Ransom Trilogy?
CH: Another difficult question! I think that I would have to say Perelandra. While I absolutely love That Hideous Strength and think that it is probably one of the most important works of fiction of the 20th century, Perelandra was the most convicting to me personally when I first read it and continues to be just as edifying in the twenty-first time through as it was the first.
NF: Did you have a favorite character?
CH: Saying “Ransom” in answer to this question feels a bit like cheating, but he is truly a remarkable character in many ways. One of the threads that I used to structure the outline of my book was Ransom’s growth as a character and so I spent a lot of my time with Ransom. That said, I also am fond of Hyoi in Out of the Silent Planet, and Dr. and Mrs. Dimble in That Hideous Strength.
NF: I’m curious about your research process into The Ransom Trilogy. What were some of the resources you consulted?
CH: My first step in researching is always to read, read, and read some more! I read everything I can get my hands on, not only primary material but secondary as well. I wish I could say I had an organized method for compiling information, but generally it ends up looking like stacks of books with scores of sticky notes poking out of them. I also listen to as many lectures on the subject as I can, go over lecture notes from my time in college, set up meetings or interviews as needed, etc. My primary resources for Deeper Heaven were Lewis’s The Discarded Image, Studies on Medieval and Renaissance Literature, and the Ransom Trilogy itself, along with Lewis’s letters. Secondary resources include Dr. Michael Ward’s Planet Narnia. For a full list of resources, you can see the bibliography of my book.
NF: Now, some readers may shudder at the term “medieval view” of the cosmos and the unfortunate social and political implications it may entail. Could you briefly describe for our readers just what this view really is?
CH: If there is one modern assumption that I would like to dispel regarding the medieval time period, it would be the use of the term “dark ages.” The medieval period was many things, but it was most definitely not dark. Imagine a page taken out of a medieval illuminated manuscript, the margins overflowing with vibrant and detailed paintings of all manner of creatures, splashed with glowing gilt lettering and intricate scrolls and flowers, a crimson phoenix in one corner and a rampant lion in another. Picture the most magnificent cathedral, curving pillars like frozen waves of stone, stained glass windows with every color imaginable fitted together so that sunlight brings stories to life in breathing color. Picture intricate tapestries telling stories of bravery and the poetic works of Chaucer and Dante surviving the passing of centuries by the sheer brilliance of their language and talent. Whatever troubles and tumults, the explosion of artistic vision in the middle ages was tremendous. And the medieval view of the cosmos, regardless of the way in which scientific advances have disproven the veracity of its physical layout, is nonetheless one example of the way in which this artistic brilliance worked its way into every facet of the medieval mind. The cosmos is created, alive, bright, colorful, intricate, designed. And we can learn much, not only about the medieval mind itself, but also about our own world by studying the pre-Copernican model of the cosmos. The medieval cosmos is inherently personal and alive – personality bursts into every corner and nothing remains untouched by this comprehensive view of reality.
NF: I really appreciated that you took time to discuss how H.G. Wells influenced Lewis Out of the Silent Planet. While I may prefer Out of the Silent Planet, I can’t deny that War of the Worlds is nothing short of a masterpiece and remains an influential work of science fiction, right down to how many scenes in major blockbuster sci-fi films are lifted from that vision. Nowadays it seems that if an author espouses a worldview or an idea contrary to our own, we are quick to dismiss them. How can we do what Lewis did and appreciate an authors work, even if we as readers may not agree with them?
CH: I think that the ability to learn from those we disagree with is a skill that everyone, not only writers, should cultivate. To start with, if we only read authors that we agree with, we will not only never sharpen our own position, but we will likely grow weaker in our areas of weakness. If you are a writer, you should want to strengthen your weaknesses and learn more about those particulars you struggle withi. Most people can recognize someone who goes to the gym and only ever works on their arms. The weaknesses become more and more apparent over time. But it’s so much easier to just work on arms! Of course it is – that is your strength. Your arms are already strong. And the day you start your leg workout is going to be tremendously difficult. It is easier to read the authors we agree with because disagreeing with someone and being able to still recognize where they are stronger than we are is difficult. But we should strive for the ability to say “I think you are wrong here, but the way you articulated this point was well done and is something I should learn to do better.” Lewis was a voracious reader. He wasn’t afraid to read things that many would look down their noses at. He wasn’t snobbish in his tastes because he was able to learn from everything he read. Because of this, he was able to be a fair critic. Lewis’s excellent book An Experiment in Criticism is a great place to read more about this sort of skill.
NF: The first time I read the trilogy I absolutely loved Out of the Silent Planet and Perelandra, and while I liked That Hideous Strength, it was not only reading Tolkien and finding the connection to Numenor, but taking a college class on the King Arthur legends that caused me to gain some more appreciation for the work. Do you feel a lot of readers are often baffled by That Hideous Strength the first time they read the trilogy? How about you?
CH: When I was working on my undergraduate thesis, one of the most frequent reactions I received when someone heard that I was writing about the Ransom Trilogy was “but it’s just so weird!” And for the most part, they were always referencing That Hideous Strength. Most readers, on picking up a series called “the Space Trilogy” expect a certain level of strangeness – aliens, other planets, space travel, etc. But the final book takes place entirely on our earth with no space travel, no proper “aliens”, and Merlin of all people! It throws most readers for a loop. I had been somewhat prepared beforehand by my instructor who lectured on the book prior to my first reading, so it wasn’t quite as shocking to me. I believe that viewing the entire trilogy through the lens of the medieval cosmology reveals the coherence of the series and answers one of the most common questions – “How does Merlin fit into all of this?”
NF: In reading your book and coming across your points regarding the differences between the terms “Heavens” versus “space” I couldn’t help but notice that for every benevolent space visitor, be it Lewis’ inhabitants of Malacandra, Yoda in Star Wars, E.T., Marvel’s Thor, or Superman, there seem to be more along the lines of those in HG Wells War of the Worlds. Do you feel that our use of the term “space”, complete with how it makes the Heavens seem cold, hostile and dangerous, fuels these more Wellsian creatures?
CH: I believe that it is impossible to escape having a philosophy or a worldview. And on top of that, your view of how the world works will be evident in anything that you create. It is impossible to tell a story and not have it be permeated by what you believe about the nature of reality. And the modern sci-fi genre inevitably reflects this. “Outer space” is the ocean between islands (i.e. planets); we cross it in ships and, unlike earthly oceans, it is empty of all life. We, like Ransom, struggle to imagine a non-human species that is unlike man in every respect and yet is not cruel and “inhumane.” The entirety of the modern imagination has been shaped by evolutionary philosophies which, in denying the existence of design and by extension a designer, manifest a world devoid of personality and personal relationships. I do think that one of the effects of this can be seen in the flatness that permeates many of the characters that populate the sci-fi world. Non-human characters are either just humans in another shape or mere animals.
NF: Could adopting a more medieval view of the cosmos enrich the imagination to create the next Sorn, E.T. , Yoda, or Superman?
CH: I don’t think that we need to adopt a medieval view of the cosmos in its entirety, but I do think, as Lewis himself did, that there is a treasure trove of imaginative and emotional potential hidden in this largely forgotten way of seeing the universe. After all, it inspired some of the most brilliant authors in history for generations and its potential to continue doing so is far from dried up. I think that there are vast, untapped reserves of imaginative inspiration buried in the minds of the medieval thinkers and we need only shed our preconceived prejudices to begin to mine them.
NF: Space certainly doesn’t seem very “cold and dark”. In fact I remember seeing the first pictures beamed back from the Hubble telescope and I was struck by just how colorful and vibrant the cosmos really were, more like a coral reef.
CH: I agree wholeheartedly that the pictures of from the Hubble telescope coincide in appearance with Lewis’s description of space as Ransom experienced it on his trip to Malacandra in Out of the Silent Planet. Lewis himself probably would have been amazed and enthralled by these images, though the “cold and dark” descriptors are still accurate when it comes to the emotional impact made by the majority of space travel movies in existence.
NF: One of my favorite surprises of the press kit I received was the map of the universe in Lewis’s Ransom Trilogy. Having not only copies of the maps of Narnia, and Middle-earth, but a good friend of mine giving me an atlas to the Star Wars universe that was done in the style of old medieval maps last Christmas, it was such a delight to see the universe from the Ransom trilogy illustrated in a similar fashion. Who supplied the map for you?
CH: The map was drawn by Josiah Nance (@joeynancedesign) and it is one of my favorite things as well! To my knowledge, no one has created an artistic rendering of the cosmos as portrayed in the Ransom Trilogy, since Lewis utilizes the Copernican arrangement overlaid by medieval, Ptolemaic conceptions.
NF: How did you come up with the title?
CH: I had a different working title for quite some time, but it was on the long side. With the help of my publisher and a friend or two, we settled on Deeper Heaven. Lewis uses the name “Deep Heaven” in the trilogy and the primary purpose of the book is to take readers deeper into their understanding of the trilogy. We wanted something fairly short and memorable and when we came up with this title, we just knew it was the one.
NF: When and why did you begin writing?
CH: I began writing almost as soon as I could read. As for why I began writing, I’m not sure I can answer in a very satisfying way. I write for the same reason that I walk or breath or have curly hair or blue eyes. I began writing because I couldn’t not write. I write because I am written. Telling stories has always been a part of my life and I can’t imagine a life in which words are not front and center. Stories are all around us, passing us on the sidewalk, blowing past our windows, rolling down the highway at sixty miles an hour, gathering in puddles on the sidewalk. The word “vocation” comes from the Latin verb “voca” meaning “to call” – and having a calling implies that something outside of ourselves is doing the calling. I am called to write and to continue to grow in my craft and skill.
NF: What are your current projects?
CH: I am working finishing edits on a draft of my fiction fantasy/adventure novel at the moment, hoping to see publication in the next year or so. I am also diving into research mode on another nonfiction Lewis project centered on his excellent book Till We Have Faces.
NF: Do you have any advice for other writers?
CH: First, read. Read lots. Read for pleasure and read to learn. Read as a writer, which means reading intentionally and widely and pay attention particularly to those writers who are good at things you aren’t and who are strong where you are weak. Second, be okay with being terrible…for a while. You don’t become a starting quarterback by sitting on the couch watching games. You don’t become a concert pianist by listening to recordings of the New York Philharmonic. You have to go out and DO and at first your “doing” isn’t going to be all that great. You have to be willing to fail and to get negative feedback. Take it and use it to grow, keep writing, keep getting better. Everything worth doing is worth doing badly and know that practice really does pay off. Third, write for other people. We write because we have something to give and that gift should be given with others in mind. If we only write to hear ourselves talking, we shouldn’t be surprised when others don’t want to listen. Writing is communication which makes it personal – the writer is a person, the reader is a person, and the communication itself is an act of fellowship between the two. Do it out of love, do it with joy, and do it with the desire to give something that can’t be given by anyone else.
NF: Thank you so much for your time, Christiana. Look for our review of the book in the coming days.
