Caspian/ Ramandu's daughter...

Aravis Kenobi said:
That, and technically, a lot of people believe that marriage, in the traiditional sense, will become obsolete. Meaning, it won't really matter who was married to who, since Christ is the church's bridegroom. Not to mention, Susan doesn't die with the rest of the Pevensies, and she doens't believe in Narnia anymore so that problem would be nonexistent.
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Yeah, there is that, too :p

And I wonder how they'll do the Susan thing...I mean, it says she didn't believe in LB but it never says if she stayed like that forever...(Lewis left what are essentially now known as fanfiction writers to fill in gaps like those ;) ). But anyway, different topic :rolleyes:

Anyhoo...I made a Caspian/Ramandu's Daughter banner out of that pic I posted, but the sig hasn't rotated to it yet :(
 
Many people have other boyfriends/girlfriends, before meeting the partner they marry. So I see no problems between RD and Susan, if Susan eventually came to Heaven later.
In my view there's no need to refer to the Susan/Caspian attraction in the new film. A whole year has pasted in our world, three years in Narnia. Susan won't come back to Narnia, end of story!! Both Edmund and Lucy know that. And if they're really Caspian's friends, they'll be happy for him to find a woman to love in his own world.
 
Susan and Ramandu's Daughter's feeling toward one another is hardly the problem with the relationship with Susan and Caspian. It should never have happened in the film. Granted as far as the book went, PC was a disaster, but there it is. Lord willing they'll learn. Besides, there is no marriage in Heaven. So that would be irrelevant. I hope more respect will be paid to Lewis' works as they attempt to adapt the latter films where they'll honor his books and not try to add in the cookie-cutter standard Hollywood dribble. It's already cost the franchise too many fans. Many of them no longer post on any of the sites because they're fed up. They'll have a romance to work with in this film, but it is not a large focus as far as the intention of the film, so I hope they'll film the romance with Ramandu's Daughter and Caspian, but still keep to the mission and flow of the story.
 
The Susan/Caspian crush in PC didn't bother me personally. Other additions/omisions did, but that's a different story. I enjoyed the film, though; the second time I saw it :)
The PC film actually made me more interested in the CoN books, which I only read as an adult. They are not well known in my country, shame!
In VofDT a lot is happening, so additions shouldn't be necessary. I also hope the film will be fairly close to the book. Fingers crossed, for the film and a well made romance.
 
I guess one of the things that works for this movie is that the book is pretty simply laid out, and IMO, there isn't much that has to be changed. The book is boring to me; there are only a couple of parts I like, but sometimes, when it's put onto film, it becomes better and more exciting. Worked with LWW, and they kept very close to the book. Not to mention this is a new crew, so we have to give them the benefit of the doubt for a while until we see the movie.
 
I'm actually pretty excited about the new crew...I just have a feeling that Michael Apted is going to be a bit more...how do I say this? Tactful? Than Andrew. Not that I didn't like Andrew...but I think Michael will just have a more mature? i dunno...handling of the romance.
 
BarbarianKing said:
That's what I said. You cannot "love" as in "LOVE" someone you don't know anything about. That's why I disagree with the statement quoted below.
You have to know someone or at least know a lot about someone to be able to truly love that person. Wanting someone after you meet them is purely a lustful desire not love. With love, you must have the other person's well being in mind, not yours. When you desire someone as soon as you meet him/her, you want YOUR needs met, not the other person's.

And that's what happened in PC with Susan and Caspian. That's why it's hard for me to see Caspian in an honorable relationship now with Ramandu's daughter. I do hope though, that somehow they manage to overcome that problem.



Like I said, I disagree.
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I really hope I don't make enemies by digging up old threads and defending a matter of which few people approve. That is not my goal at all.

I do agree with most of what BK said. You cannot fall in love when you first meet someone. That is pure lust. This is accurate in our world. I don't know if it's the same in Narnia but let's say it is. There are still several factor we need to consider before we dismiss the Suspian romance in PC as ridiculous and immoral.

1. We know from the books that Susan (and I think at least one of the books says this is true of Caspian as well) was an attractive person. A person's outer beauty can cause one to take notice of said person as a possible love interest. Granted it's somewhat shallow, but most people aren't blind and looks are the first thing we tend to notice. That doesn't mean it's lust. It simply means you think God did a wonderful job with His creation. There is nothing wrong with noticing a person's beauty. Could've been the initicial cause of the Suspian romance. Doesn't make it lust.

2. You make is sound as if they new nothing about each other even by the time of the imfamous kiss at the end. We should consider the fact that they were in a war together. They had plenty of time to get to know each other. It is very hard to clearly define the passage of time in a movie because you only have about 2 hours at the most to discribe events that took place over weeks, months, or even years. Truth be told, we have no idea how long they were at Aslan's How together. We know it probably wasn't a short time as wars are not won overnight. We know the Narnians were fiecely outnumbered by the Telmarines and if they had any hope of winning the war they would've spent a great deal of time planning at Aslan's How before they made any moves. As the leaders Caspian and the Pevensies more than likely had to spend countless hours together planning everything and such. And I dare say being stuck in such a position one could learn far more about his comrades than was ever desired.

3. C.S. Lewis didn't seem to dwell much on romance. I mean really, Caspian got married and there were only a few paragraphs to discribe such an intense romance? This tells me that if Narnia were real and C.S. Lewis were a reporter bringing us the facts of an actual story (that would be soooooo awesome! Dream with me for a sec! Ok moving on) and if the Suspian thing had happened, he probably would've omitted it altogether anyways. I doubt he would've even mentioned Ramandu's Daughter if he hadn't had SC in mind. Just because something was not mentioned in the book doesn't mean it couldn't have happened, it just means C.S. Lewis didn't put it in. RD was never named in the books but that doesn't mean she didn't have a name, period. RD's mother was never mentioned either but that doesn't mean she didn't have a mom. (Was Caspian's mother ever mentioned for that matter? I can't remember. oh well. lol)

Lastly, I think the Suspian thing, if handled well, could actually help the Caspian/ RD romance in the movie. It almost seemed rushed and slightly shallow in the book, in my opinion. I think it may be good for Caspian to have to make a conscious decision to engage in a relationship with RD. I think it would be good to show that he doesn't take this romance lightly. If he has to put some thought into this and decide who he likes more it may actually add depth to the romance between him and his future wife.
That's my take:rolleyes:
 
"You cannot fall in love when you first meet someone. That is pure lust."

Chisha, I would like to correct you here. Love at first sight is physical attraction, as you later mentioned, not lust. I know I am not lusting after every female I see who I feel is good looking.

However, some people just have a spark between them. That was what Lewis was trying to show with a fairy-tale romance. The rules were that, opposed to the traditional fairly tale where a kiss releases the spell, the spell must be released before the princess can be kissed.

They can either make the relationship develop by making her a part of the crew (I am hoping not) or to steer his dreams to her (it can be OK if done right).

And by the way, Doctor Cornelius told Caspian that the only Telmarine to show him kindness was Caspian's mother.

MrBob
 
MrBob said:
"You cannot fall in love when you first meet someone. That is pure lust."

Chisha, I would like to correct you here. Love at first sight is physical attraction, as you later mentioned, not lust. I know I am not lusting after every female I see who I feel is good looking.
MrBob
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I think we pretty much agree. The bottom line is you cannot have TRUE LOVE with someone you just met. Whether it is lust or just an attraction, it isn't love. Of course, we don't know if that's the case in Narnia. It's a fairytale so anything, including "true love" at first sight, is possible.
 
Chisha92 said:
2. You make is sound as if they new nothing about each other even by the time of the imfamous kiss at the end. We should consider the fact that they were in a war together.
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Actually no, they were hardly together in the book. While the boys were fighting the Telmarines, the girls were with Aslan on a romp. So yeah, making Susan fight in the movie was another change that was not in the books. This was done on purpose so that it would lead to the Suspian kiss.

And regarding another one of your points, anyone of course, can see and recognize a person's beauty the first time he/she sees that person, but that's doesn't mean that you already love that person.

And when I said lust, I didn't mean that it has to necessarily be evil. Lust is just the biblical word for our natural desires, that the Bible calls the desires of the flesh. We all have it. Some people use it in an evil way, other are able to control it.
 
I'm thinking that maybe when they stop at Ramandu's Island, the stay could be a bit longer than in the book (not too long...maybe an extra day or few days). That way it would give time for maybe Ramandu's Daughter to show Caspian around and the two of them could talk together more. Cinematically it would make sense, b/c it HAS to be very apparent to the audience that there is some extreme difference in the connection Caspian forms with her than he did with Susan.

Now if the Suspian kiss hadn't been included, then they wouldn't have had this problem :rolleyes:
 
I have a hard time agreeing that the Susan/Caspian kiss had that much significance, partly because it was a slight infatuation and it was just "a" kiss. A kiss does not mean they had a serious romantic relationship, which even in the movie that is not suggested.
I don't think this will cause any continuity problems as this seems to typify a passing crush.
It was a kiss goodbye. Have you ever noticed how a lot of teenage relationships don't last?
Also, by this time, Susan is in America for the summer. She has become very pretty and it is implied in the books that boys have started to notice her.

Further, Caspian has grown up a lot, and it is likely he completely understands that a true real relationship with Susan is not going to happen. I think he has moved well past that.
 
Yeah, the Caspian-Susan thing didn't bother me in itself; if they were going to rewrite so radically as to make Caspian old enough to feel that way about Susan, it was not unreasonable that he WOULD feel that way about her.
 
In fact, I would go a step further-- I thought it was one of those rare times where the movie actually enhanced the story: a brief teenage infatuation between worlds seems to provide just one more connection between Narnia and England which connection Lewis wanted us to make in our minds anyway.
 
Yes, I never felt there was anything wrong with the crush either.

However, I am looking forward to seeing Ramandu's Daughter in this film. Despite the fact that I don't think that Susan and Caspian have any bearing on this film, I do however agree that the scenes with Ramandu's Daughter could be a little enlongated.
Despite the fact that she is mysterious and beautiful - I think that it is this mystery that draws us to know more about her.

I want to know her name, who she is, why she intrigues us (I am sure it is more than beauty) how she is going to connect with Caspian, and what sort of Queen she shall be in his Kingship.
I also would like to learn a little more about her - how long has she been on that island? Was she born there? Who was her mother?
She is the perfect character for a movie because Lewis didn't give us a whole lot of details about her. They can only enhance her and make her better.
 
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