Aslan the Wise one
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i was reading in LWW the other day and it hit me, the hole Deep Maigc thing is very instring to me and i just thought i would post this to see what my fellow fans thought about it........
Deep Magic?.
- Thread starter Aslan the Wise one
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sevgi
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I think it is interesting to though I always wondered exactly what it was the book is very vague on that subject
Aslan the Wise one
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Yep that is ture sevgi, since i posted this topic i have done some more studing and re-searth on this topic becouse i do't have a life so i got all the time in the world ok back to what i was saying, here is some other thing i have frond out,
I have also frond this info on this tipic to day,
Bilbe Vises talking about magic.
1.Decateronmy,18:10-11.
2. Samuel,15:23
Narnia sayings about magic.
1.pp,LWW 145-155-163- 178-178-79
What C.S.Lewis said about magic.
The rule of the universe, that others can do for us
What we cannot do for our self, and one can paddle
Every conone except one’s own that is way Christ’s
Staffing for us is not a mere theological dodge
But the supreme case of the whole world and when
They mocked Him by saying he saved the others but Himself
Really uttering little as they know it the ultimate law of the spiritual world. C.S.Lewis in a Letter Defending the Deep Magic.
I have also frond this info on this tipic to day,
Bilbe Vises talking about magic.
1.Decateronmy,18:10-11.
2. Samuel,15:23
Narnia sayings about magic.
1.pp,LWW 145-155-163- 178-178-79
What C.S.Lewis said about magic.
The rule of the universe, that others can do for us
What we cannot do for our self, and one can paddle
Every conone except one’s own that is way Christ’s
Staffing for us is not a mere theological dodge
But the supreme case of the whole world and when
They mocked Him by saying he saved the others but Himself
Really uttering little as they know it the ultimate law of the spiritual world. C.S.Lewis in a Letter Defending the Deep Magic.
Lewis doesn't spell this out for us, but it seems to be vital, and you can sense that he's put a lot of thought into this. Here's what I think:
The Deep Magic is justice. It's carved on the sceptor of the Emperor, and this makes me think of the ten commandments. The White Witch demands justice, and Aslan is angry when it's suggested that she not receive it.
If the above is true, it would be tempting to call the Deeper Magic mercy (after all, the traitor is spared) but I think it's actually complete and utter compassion. Aslan is not figuratively but literally putting himself in another's shoes. (Lions don't wear shoes. I don't know how else to put it. I'll leave it.)
As to the "why" behind this, Lewis doesn't address it. It's a mystery that can be speculated about but if as A the G quoted, it's "the ultimate law of the spiritual world," it would surprise me if I could really understand it. Accepting it is as far as I've gotten.
Talk of justice and mercy reminds me of a great line from G.K. Chesterton who was talking about fairy stories (the real Grimm ones) where the bad characters meet gruesome fates. He noticed that adults were more squeamish about this than children, and explained that "children are innocent and love justice, while most adults are wicked and prefer mercy."
In LWW, we get neither justice nor mercy, but something deeper (that word again!) and more satisfying than either.
The Deep Magic is justice. It's carved on the sceptor of the Emperor, and this makes me think of the ten commandments. The White Witch demands justice, and Aslan is angry when it's suggested that she not receive it.
If the above is true, it would be tempting to call the Deeper Magic mercy (after all, the traitor is spared) but I think it's actually complete and utter compassion. Aslan is not figuratively but literally putting himself in another's shoes. (Lions don't wear shoes. I don't know how else to put it. I'll leave it.)
As to the "why" behind this, Lewis doesn't address it. It's a mystery that can be speculated about but if as A the G quoted, it's "the ultimate law of the spiritual world," it would surprise me if I could really understand it. Accepting it is as far as I've gotten.
Talk of justice and mercy reminds me of a great line from G.K. Chesterton who was talking about fairy stories (the real Grimm ones) where the bad characters meet gruesome fates. He noticed that adults were more squeamish about this than children, and explained that "children are innocent and love justice, while most adults are wicked and prefer mercy."
In LWW, we get neither justice nor mercy, but something deeper (that word again!) and more satisfying than either.
Aslan the Wise one
New member
another
i also have fround this saying by Lewis,
“The Weight Of Glory” do you think I’m trying to wave a spell over you.? perhaps I’m but remember your fairy tales. Spells
Are used for breaking enchantments as well as for inducing them. And you and I have to need of strongest spell that can be found to wake us up from the evil enchantment of worldiness wich has laid opien us for nearly a haunderd years.
i also have fround this saying by Lewis,
“The Weight Of Glory” do you think I’m trying to wave a spell over you.? perhaps I’m but remember your fairy tales. Spells
Are used for breaking enchantments as well as for inducing them. And you and I have to need of strongest spell that can be found to wake us up from the evil enchantment of worldiness wich has laid opien us for nearly a haunderd years.
unleavened
New member
James 2:13 (I think) "Mercy triumphs over judgement."
Similar to what inklet was saying. Judgement or justice (I know they are not one and the same, but they are similar) is deep magic, and mercy or compassion (maybe one is contained within the other in this case) is deeper magic still.
Similar to what inklet was saying. Judgement or justice (I know they are not one and the same, but they are similar) is deep magic, and mercy or compassion (maybe one is contained within the other in this case) is deeper magic still.
Welcome to the new Ink -- Inklet!!! I have been gone and didn't see you post before.
Let me suggest that the Deeper Magic from before the dawn of time is my favorite: GRACE!
Mercy is being spared a punishment you deserved, deep magic.
Grace is receiving a reward you don't deserve! Deeper magic!
Let me suggest that the Deeper Magic from before the dawn of time is my favorite: GRACE!
Mercy is being spared a punishment you deserved, deep magic.
Grace is receiving a reward you don't deserve! Deeper magic!
Aslan the Wise one
New member
That
That is good inkspot, I have posted this on a few other Lewis bords and one of the things thay say is think of Deep Magic or just Magic has a life force or has spirits do you agree or not agree?.
That is good inkspot, I have posted this on a few other Lewis bords and one of the things thay say is think of Deep Magic or just Magic has a life force or has spirits do you agree or not agree?.
Nah, I would disagree cuz as much as I like fantasy/sci-fi literature and movies, I don't really believe in that New Agey aspect of it, about a life force or what have you.Aslan the Wise one said:
I am an old-fashioned Christian who believes the original "life force" is God, that the way to salvation is Jesus, and our strength for living comes through the Holy Spirit. So when I look at CON, it's difficult for me to divorce my worldview from the books, and I can't hardly think of any other explanation for the deep magic than God's grace and never-ending love.
To me that is a greater mystery than any life force could be ...
Aslan the Wise one
New member
Yep inkspot i agree with you some what,i'm also a Chrisiton..............
Aslan the Wise one
New member
MMM, So legolas, What i think your trying to say is what inkspot sied i'm i right.??
If were to put ourselves back in a timeframe where we are less educated about the world, et al, we would probably assign "magic" to things that we do not understand.
For example: airplanes fly because of "magic." This sounds ludicrous to us because most of us understand at least the rudimentary concepts of aerodynamics. But, if we were "uneducated," then airplanes would fly because of "magic."
Secondly, being that this is a fantasy, Lewis simply used fantasy terms; hence, "magic." But unlike other fairy tales and fantasies, he does not mean the use of magic spells and wands. Aslan does not need such artifacts to work his will. Whereas, if you will note, the "bad guys" who do use such actually corrupt the natural world and cause more chaos than order.
To me the Old Magic and the Deeper Magic is simply describing the LAW and the GOSPEL. The Old Magic condemns, while the Deeper Magic allows the propitiation of the Old Magic so that all can be saved.
For example: airplanes fly because of "magic." This sounds ludicrous to us because most of us understand at least the rudimentary concepts of aerodynamics. But, if we were "uneducated," then airplanes would fly because of "magic."
Secondly, being that this is a fantasy, Lewis simply used fantasy terms; hence, "magic." But unlike other fairy tales and fantasies, he does not mean the use of magic spells and wands. Aslan does not need such artifacts to work his will. Whereas, if you will note, the "bad guys" who do use such actually corrupt the natural world and cause more chaos than order.
To me the Old Magic and the Deeper Magic is simply describing the LAW and the GOSPEL. The Old Magic condemns, while the Deeper Magic allows the propitiation of the Old Magic so that all can be saved.
Aslan the Wise one
New member
So what your saying Wallis, Is that Deep Magic or just Magic is the GOSPEL.?
Well, deep magic is like the gospel I guess. It's the promise that we can be saved. The only magic the witch know of is the old magic and therefore she uses it to condemn Edmund.
I like what you said Wallis, the old magic condemns, while the deeper magic allows us to be saved. Its been there forever, but it couldn't be put into action without Aslan. Aslan brought the deep magic!
Did any of taht make sense? I 'm tired forgive me if it doesn't...
I like what you said Wallis, the old magic condemns, while the deeper magic allows us to be saved. Its been there forever, but it couldn't be put into action without Aslan. Aslan brought the deep magic!
Did any of taht make sense? I 'm tired forgive me if it doesn't...
In the context of LWW, which is the only book in which Lewis references the Deeper Magic, then in a Christian context, I would equate the Deeper Magic with the all-consuming Love of the Creator and the promise of salvation, which Christ fulfilled in His death and resurrection.
Hope that clarifies my previous post a little bit.
Hope that clarifies my previous post a little bit.
Aslan the Wise one
New member
are they the same?
Yes Wallis it vey moch so clarifies your post, I thought i should tell you all this, The mine reson i posted this topic in the frist place was a wile back a had a Lotr reading grup at my chruch, and there is a womman at my chruch (wich is also a friend of my mother) and she is very ati-magic and me and her got into a debite about it on aa chruch trip, and she was saying i was a wizard and i was tell poeple how to use magic in my Lotr reading grup, wich i was not!, but any way, she was trying to tell me Lotr HP And CON were all the same, in some ways thay are like there all books LOL, ok back to what i was saying, so i was trying to tell her there are diffeett kinds of magic, like HP magic is not the same of magic in Lotr or CON, so what do you think.?
ps if you know a way i can tell here how there is diffet kinds of magic plase tell.
Yes Wallis it vey moch so clarifies your post, I thought i should tell you all this, The mine reson i posted this topic in the frist place was a wile back a had a Lotr reading grup at my chruch, and there is a womman at my chruch (wich is also a friend of my mother) and she is very ati-magic and me and her got into a debite about it on aa chruch trip, and she was saying i was a wizard and i was tell poeple how to use magic in my Lotr reading grup, wich i was not!, but any way, she was trying to tell me Lotr HP And CON were all the same, in some ways thay are like there all books LOL, ok back to what i was saying, so i was trying to tell her there are diffeett kinds of magic, like HP magic is not the same of magic in Lotr or CON, so what do you think.?
ps if you know a way i can tell here how there is diffet kinds of magic plase tell.
Yikes! Has this woman read CON and LOTR? They certainly don't encourage the use of magic in everyday life. The everyman of LOTR is the hobbit and humans, and neither perform magic.
The magic in LOTR is different to my mind than in CON, and HP magic is different again. Like I said, in CON, I think the Deep Magic Aslan refers to is mercy and grace -- and it isn't practiced by anyone, it simply is, and Aslan alone can put it into motion.
In LOTR, the magic seems to be an inborn power in Gandalf and the other wizards that is honed over time, but I just see it as a thematic element of the story, not a symbol for any biblical concept. It is used for good by those who are good and evil by those who are evil.
(Come to think of it, in LOTR you could see the magic as spirit power: practiced for good by the angels who serve God and for evil by the angels who have rejected God and become demons -- so in that case, the "magic" itself is neither good nor evil, but demons practice it for evil, and angels practice it for good. Tell this woman that! She is protesting the same story you find in the Bible: the great war in heaven when Satan fell like lightning - Luke 10:18, Revelation 12:7-9.)
The HP magic is different again, but more like the magic in LOTR to my mind, not necessarily a symbol of any biblical theme, but just an intriguing part of the story ... but I could be wrong. We have been discussing HP and whether the magic is evil in HP books, over in another thread.
The magic in LOTR is different to my mind than in CON, and HP magic is different again. Like I said, in CON, I think the Deep Magic Aslan refers to is mercy and grace -- and it isn't practiced by anyone, it simply is, and Aslan alone can put it into motion.
In LOTR, the magic seems to be an inborn power in Gandalf and the other wizards that is honed over time, but I just see it as a thematic element of the story, not a symbol for any biblical concept. It is used for good by those who are good and evil by those who are evil.
(Come to think of it, in LOTR you could see the magic as spirit power: practiced for good by the angels who serve God and for evil by the angels who have rejected God and become demons -- so in that case, the "magic" itself is neither good nor evil, but demons practice it for evil, and angels practice it for good. Tell this woman that! She is protesting the same story you find in the Bible: the great war in heaven when Satan fell like lightning - Luke 10:18, Revelation 12:7-9.)
The HP magic is different again, but more like the magic in LOTR to my mind, not necessarily a symbol of any biblical theme, but just an intriguing part of the story ... but I could be wrong. We have been discussing HP and whether the magic is evil in HP books, over in another thread.
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Aslan the Wise one
New member
I do't think so.
No this woman as not read any of the books, But she has down a lot of reseth on HP, and she just thinks there all the same,But after we got back from the chruch trip i give her a lot of info on them, about how the books had Christon thems and views in them, And i told her about the hole Tolkien and C.S.Lewis thing how they were friends, but she stell's but up a fight, she even wnat to some of my pasters at my chruch, to tell them about it, But all of my pasters are huge fans of Tolkien and Lewis so that did't work, But i'm not giveing up yet i'm not going down with out a fight...
ps Think you inkspot for the vises.
No this woman as not read any of the books, But she has down a lot of reseth on HP, and she just thinks there all the same,But after we got back from the chruch trip i give her a lot of info on them, about how the books had Christon thems and views in them, And i told her about the hole Tolkien and C.S.Lewis thing how they were friends, but she stell's but up a fight, she even wnat to some of my pasters at my chruch, to tell them about it, But all of my pasters are huge fans of Tolkien and Lewis so that did't work, But i'm not giveing up yet i'm not going down with out a fight...
ps Think you inkspot for the vises.