Did the last battle freak you out to?
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Mercury
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TLB isn't my favorite of all the Narnia books, but I sure liked it. I just could basically tell from early on that this was going to be the end of Narnia, and it was interesting to see how Lewis actually made it happen.
I also loved how he described heaven. It made me appreciate earth more. Maybe that sounds weird or confusing... lol! But that's what it did for me.
Well, to address the issue of Lewis not describing heaven more in detail. I think that was smart and not a cop out. Because it's the same thing like describing to people what God looks like. They all believe then that that is the one way God looks, and if he'd show himself in any other form, no one would believe it was him. The same could be for heaven. All throughout Lewis' books (i especially remember The Great Divorce) Lewis is very careful to make any factual statements about what heaven is like, because he acknowledges that he can't know, and anything he could describe would not be the real thing. And I think it was always his intention to not delude people, but actually hint them at what he believed to be real. So I think it was good he didn't go into further detail about heaven.
I also loved how he described heaven. It made me appreciate earth more. Maybe that sounds weird or confusing... lol! But that's what it did for me.
Well, to address the issue of Lewis not describing heaven more in detail. I think that was smart and not a cop out. Because it's the same thing like describing to people what God looks like. They all believe then that that is the one way God looks, and if he'd show himself in any other form, no one would believe it was him. The same could be for heaven. All throughout Lewis' books (i especially remember The Great Divorce) Lewis is very careful to make any factual statements about what heaven is like, because he acknowledges that he can't know, and anything he could describe would not be the real thing. And I think it was always his intention to not delude people, but actually hint them at what he believed to be real. So I think it was good he didn't go into further detail about heaven.
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VeritasRatioque3D
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It’s all in Plato. What do they teach in schools these days? – The Professor
(I’m sorry it is not an exact quote – my CoN books are at home and I am at college
)
C.S. Lewis’s idea of heaven should not seem as odd or “freaky” as it does to some people. C.S. Lewis was heavily influenced by Plato and St. Augustine, a fact that is clearly shown in the final scenes of TLB. Lewis’s description of heaven comes almost directly out of book VII of Plato’s Republic.
Plato describes a cave in which people are sitting in the bottom chained and fettered. Their only source of light comes from a fire that is above and behind them. Artifacts are carried in front of the fire, but behind the people, casting shadows onto the wall directly in front of the people. These shadows are the only things that can be seen by these prisoners. Since they know of no other things, these people cannot help but think that the shadows they see are real things. As they watch the shadows pass before them, they identify, name, and study them. The brightest become very good at this game and are revered among his fellow prisoners. Then, one day, one man is freed from his chains and compelled to make his way out of the cave. At first, he cannot see, being blinded by the light. As the shapes begin to form in his eyes, however, he realizes that what he is seeing is the real thing and what he thought was real, those shadows in the cave, were only a fragment of the true nature of the artifacts.
Lewis’s idea of heaven was much the same. He thought (and I’m inclined to agree with him) that this earth is only a shadow of the place God has prepared for his children. When we (His children) arrive in heaven, we will see things more real than anything we have ever experienced on this earth. The fragmented shapes and fuzzy outlines of this earth will seem as nothing compared to the realness of heaven. This was Lewis’s concept of heaven.
I agree with Mercury’s response concerning the lack of description of heaven in TLB. I would like to add to it a little though.
Speaking of the man who had just exited the cave, Plato said:
“And when he came into the light, with the sun filling his eyes, wouldn’t he be unable to see a single one of the things now said to be true?.. I suppose, then, that he’d need time to get adjusted before he could see things in the world above. At first, he’d see shadows most easily, then images of men and other things in water, then the things themselves. Of these, he’d be able to study the things in the sky and the sky itself more easily at night, looking at the light of the stars and the moon, than during the day, looking at the sun and the light of the sun… Finally, I suppose, he’d be able to see the sun, not images of it in water or some alien place, but the sun itself, in its own place, and be able to study it.”
I believe that Lewis had a glimpse of that more real realm we call heaven. Only, and Lewis himself realized this, he had only reached the level of seeing-shadows-most-easily or perhaps seeing-images-of-men-and-other-things-in-water. This may not seem far, but considering most of us are still in the cave, this was quite an accomplishment. He knew that he had not yet seen “the sun itself.” Knowing, however, that he had seen more than what most of us have seen he wanted to describe it the realness of what is to come. This description is what we see in the final scenes of TLB.
(I’m sorry it is not an exact quote – my CoN books are at home and I am at college
)C.S. Lewis’s idea of heaven should not seem as odd or “freaky” as it does to some people. C.S. Lewis was heavily influenced by Plato and St. Augustine, a fact that is clearly shown in the final scenes of TLB. Lewis’s description of heaven comes almost directly out of book VII of Plato’s Republic.
Plato describes a cave in which people are sitting in the bottom chained and fettered. Their only source of light comes from a fire that is above and behind them. Artifacts are carried in front of the fire, but behind the people, casting shadows onto the wall directly in front of the people. These shadows are the only things that can be seen by these prisoners. Since they know of no other things, these people cannot help but think that the shadows they see are real things. As they watch the shadows pass before them, they identify, name, and study them. The brightest become very good at this game and are revered among his fellow prisoners. Then, one day, one man is freed from his chains and compelled to make his way out of the cave. At first, he cannot see, being blinded by the light. As the shapes begin to form in his eyes, however, he realizes that what he is seeing is the real thing and what he thought was real, those shadows in the cave, were only a fragment of the true nature of the artifacts.
Lewis’s idea of heaven was much the same. He thought (and I’m inclined to agree with him) that this earth is only a shadow of the place God has prepared for his children. When we (His children) arrive in heaven, we will see things more real than anything we have ever experienced on this earth. The fragmented shapes and fuzzy outlines of this earth will seem as nothing compared to the realness of heaven. This was Lewis’s concept of heaven.
I agree with Mercury’s response concerning the lack of description of heaven in TLB. I would like to add to it a little though.
Speaking of the man who had just exited the cave, Plato said:
“And when he came into the light, with the sun filling his eyes, wouldn’t he be unable to see a single one of the things now said to be true?.. I suppose, then, that he’d need time to get adjusted before he could see things in the world above. At first, he’d see shadows most easily, then images of men and other things in water, then the things themselves. Of these, he’d be able to study the things in the sky and the sky itself more easily at night, looking at the light of the stars and the moon, than during the day, looking at the sun and the light of the sun… Finally, I suppose, he’d be able to see the sun, not images of it in water or some alien place, but the sun itself, in its own place, and be able to study it.”
I believe that Lewis had a glimpse of that more real realm we call heaven. Only, and Lewis himself realized this, he had only reached the level of seeing-shadows-most-easily or perhaps seeing-images-of-men-and-other-things-in-water. This may not seem far, but considering most of us are still in the cave, this was quite an accomplishment. He knew that he had not yet seen “the sun itself.” Knowing, however, that he had seen more than what most of us have seen he wanted to describe it the realness of what is to come. This description is what we see in the final scenes of TLB.
she-elfwarrior19
New member
freaky
i wouldnt say i was really that freaked...... but then again come to think of it i think i was at some certain parts
i wouldnt say i was really that freaked...... but then again come to think of it i think i was at some certain parts
therearenoaccidents
New member
every time i read TLB (or any of the CoN for that matter)I get something a little bit new or diffrent out of them.the first time i read TLB I wasnt really "freeked out" it was a ending i didnt expect and i was a little surprised.But as Ive read it again and again... Ive come to realize that it is trying to describe the indescribeable and it gives me a great excited feeling.but to see the world of narnia come to a "end" did give me a werid feeling. you might be able to call it freaky.
Dead Rain
New member
i finnally finished LB. *sigh of relief* but no. i wasn't freaked out. just sad. very sad.and like.... i don't know. I hated Shift as soon as his name was mentioned. but like Ginger, the cat, i liked him, even though he was evil. and i gave him pitty when he lost his..eh.. ability to speak. I guess that's just because i like cats in general. ah well. and Jewel was awsome. and so was Fledge! such old memories!
The Prince
New member
Yes
It definitly was just a little no a lot FREAKY
It definitly was just a little no a lot FREAKY
she-elfwarrior19
New member
freaky
as i said b4 it was in a way scary but i still liked it when i read all seven, just talking about Narnia puts me in the mood to watch the LWW animation, going to watch it now
bye
as i said b4 it was in a way scary but i still liked it when i read all seven, just talking about Narnia puts me in the mood to watch the LWW animation, going to watch it now
bye
Not freaky exactly
I can still remember the first time I read TLB, when I was a kid. It was all wrong, what was happening, but I knew everything would come out right, so it didn't freak me out -- until that night of the battle when the horses were galloping up the hill to join in the fight, and the dwarves started shooting them. Seriously, that passage made my heart drop, as if it just couldn't be happening ... I remember that, from all those years ago. I don't know why, but that struck me as more wrong and hopeless than anything that had happened so far. As for Lewis' handling of heaven, or the new Narnia or however you want to look at it: Aslan's assurance that school is over and the holidays have begun was, for me, perfect. It was the end of all doubt, confusion, pain, and the promise of more adventure than we can imagine -- what could be more perfect?
I can still remember the first time I read TLB, when I was a kid. It was all wrong, what was happening, but I knew everything would come out right, so it didn't freak me out -- until that night of the battle when the horses were galloping up the hill to join in the fight, and the dwarves started shooting them. Seriously, that passage made my heart drop, as if it just couldn't be happening ... I remember that, from all those years ago. I don't know why, but that struck me as more wrong and hopeless than anything that had happened so far. As for Lewis' handling of heaven, or the new Narnia or however you want to look at it: Aslan's assurance that school is over and the holidays have begun was, for me, perfect. It was the end of all doubt, confusion, pain, and the promise of more adventure than we can imagine -- what could be more perfect?
Purgatory?
Near the end, the division of the Narnians clearly represented the imagery of the Bible with the division of the sheep on the right and the goats on the left.
But the dwarfs????
The dwarfs are in Aslan's Country. At least those who are in Aslan's Country can see and even interact with the dwarfs. However, the dwarfs are locked in a prison of their mind/beliefs and still believe that they are in the stable.
I wonder what Lewis was trying to convey.
Near the end, the division of the Narnians clearly represented the imagery of the Bible with the division of the sheep on the right and the goats on the left.
But the dwarfs????
The dwarfs are in Aslan's Country. At least those who are in Aslan's Country can see and even interact with the dwarfs. However, the dwarfs are locked in a prison of their mind/beliefs and still believe that they are in the stable.
I wonder what Lewis was trying to convey.
That's an interesting idea Wallis, and one that works! Do you think that eventually the dwarfs would be redeemed and be able to join the others, or were they derstroyed when Narnia ended? So in a way being in the stable surrounded by all the food was a last chance for them to open their eyes properly and see what they had been missing?
If you read Revelations in the Bible it talks about people who even to the last days will be blind to the faith. Possibly C.S.Lewis was trying to convey the dwarves as these people??
Praying for the dead
I never thought that maybe those dwarves would be like lost souls in purgatory. There is a Catholic practice of praying for the dead, perhaps this is a picture of those we're praying for, not eternally lost but not able yet to fully partake in the joys of heaven? That would make me feel better.
I never thought that maybe those dwarves would be like lost souls in purgatory. There is a Catholic practice of praying for the dead, perhaps this is a picture of those we're praying for, not eternally lost but not able yet to fully partake in the joys of heaven? That would make me feel better.
Lunis
New member
I sort of agree with you there, perOperO. "The Voyage..." had many strange things in it:
(**spoilers if you haven't read the books**) ...
That dream/nightmare realm, that lake that turns you into gold, the treasure that can make you a dragon. The last two, a sign of what greed can do. It was very intense in a way. I loved it a lot, but some parts made me "freak out" to a degree. But, my beliefs being a lot like C.S. Lewis's, I understood all (or most) of what he was conveying. (*Lunis
(**spoilers if you haven't read the books**) ...
That dream/nightmare realm, that lake that turns you into gold, the treasure that can make you a dragon. The last two, a sign of what greed can do. It was very intense in a way. I loved it a lot, but some parts made me "freak out" to a degree.
But, my beliefs being a lot like C.S. Lewis's, I understood all (or most) of what he was conveying. (*Lunis
P
Purple Shadow
Guest
I first read TLB when I was around twelve or thirteen, and I remember coming away with this EMPTY feeling. I put the book aside, and I couldn't look at it for another few years. I didn't read it when I read the series, and I didn't count it among the books. As far as I was concerned, CON only had six books.
But when I finally did pick up the book, thinking that I was being stupid about the whole thing and it's just a book, I forced myself to read it. And I understood it better. I remember thinking the first time around that I shouldn't be reading it, because by then I had known for some time that Aslan represented Jesus, and I knew that impersonating him was evil. It was like reading about sin, and committing it at the same time. I was also upset that Narnia was over and done, and there would be no more books, lol...
Now that I understand it better, I love this book. It deals with some very real situations, even though the people and places are fictional. I think it represents Shift as the Antichrist, though I haven't decided if Puzzle is included in that title. The book really does have a happy ending in that loved characters are going to "Heaven", but at the same time you have to get your minds around the fact that they're actually dead. And Susan was left out of it. I'm still not sure if she died in the railway accident and ended up in Hell, or if she wasn't on the train at the time and has to live with what happened...
And I know this is a thread for TLB, but I noticed that none of the characters acknowledged in Prince Caspian that their old friends were long gone. I would have thought that Lucy at least would have been sad that Mr. Tumnus was dead, but she never mentions him at all, except when she tells Susan that he told her long ago about Bacchus.
But when I finally did pick up the book, thinking that I was being stupid about the whole thing and it's just a book, I forced myself to read it. And I understood it better. I remember thinking the first time around that I shouldn't be reading it, because by then I had known for some time that Aslan represented Jesus, and I knew that impersonating him was evil. It was like reading about sin, and committing it at the same time. I was also upset that Narnia was over and done, and there would be no more books, lol...
Now that I understand it better, I love this book. It deals with some very real situations, even though the people and places are fictional. I think it represents Shift as the Antichrist, though I haven't decided if Puzzle is included in that title. The book really does have a happy ending in that loved characters are going to "Heaven", but at the same time you have to get your minds around the fact that they're actually dead. And Susan was left out of it. I'm still not sure if she died in the railway accident and ended up in Hell, or if she wasn't on the train at the time and has to live with what happened...
And I know this is a thread for TLB, but I noticed that none of the characters acknowledged in Prince Caspian that their old friends were long gone. I would have thought that Lucy at least would have been sad that Mr. Tumnus was dead, but she never mentions him at all, except when she tells Susan that he told her long ago about Bacchus.
The book presents a clear picture of how those with hearts that are distant from God end up doing evil to themselves and others. What I find freaky is the way in which we as a society are doing the same. You know, as in ignoring what God wants and doing whatever pops into our heads. And then convince ourselves that He's just a faery-tale and wont hold us accountable. It only leads to disaster.
N
nickumsix
Guest
I read the whole series for the first time in the third or fourth grade, and I had some strange reactions. It took me the longest time to read The Horse and His Boy -- I think I thought it was boring, God knows why -- and I didn't even finish The Last Battle. I read up to the scenes where Jill and Eustace are preparing for battle and then I just stopped. I really don't know why I did, but I did. When I reread the chronicles a few years later I just omitted the two books I hadn't enjoyed and moved on. But then, just a few summers ago, I decided to rediscover the entire series, including The Horse and His Boy and The Last Battle. And I saw how truly beautiful The Last Battle was. Freaky? Not a bit. I thought it was absolutely stunning, one of the most heart wrenchingly, well, beautiful accounts put to paper. After reading The Last Battle, I decided to see what else Lewis had to say, so I read some of his theological writings, and, together, they opened my eyes to God. After 5 or 6 years of doubt and wandering, I recomitted myself to the Lord. So, you see, that's why I love the chronicles so much, especially The Last Battle. Not because of the richly imagined fantasy and the fantastic writing (although both of those certainly contributed), but because they truly saved me.