Does Susan go to the "New Narnia"?/Whatever happened to Susan?

TimmyofOz said:
You makes some good points about the weaknesses of Susan. But Lewis always for the conversion story. Stating with Edmund and Scrubb in the CON, the young Calormen in the LB, Jan and Mark in That Hideous Strength, and his own conversion and that of his wife. I feel that Lewis wouldn't be able to help himself to want to turn Susan from the Dark Side, sorry my pun.

JTW- Narnia Canon is the official story line of the Chronicles of Narnia based on the 7 books of Narnia.
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TofOz the Chronicles of Narnia is not the bible and should not be used as such, it is a made up place and too many people wish it where real. Canon to me is a religous term and referes to the bible or other religous teaching, Narnia is not a canon for if it was you would also have to take in the other facts such as Myths, Paganism ect. :)
 
TimmyofOz said:
You makes some good points about the weaknesses of Susan. But Lewis always for the conversion story. Stating with Edmund and Scrubb in the CON, the young Calormen in the LB, Jan and Mark in That Hideous Strength, and his own conversion and that of his wife. I feel that Lewis wouldn't be able to help himself to want to turn Susan from the Dark Side, sorry my pun.

JTW- Narnia Canon is the official story line of the Chronicles of Narnia based on the 7 books of Narnia.
Click to expand...
I would have loved another book by CSL that told Susan's reconversion story; that would have been splendid! And I like to believe that she did return to Aslan's country eventually.

JtW said:
do you not see what Lewis was saying White Witch, White Stag follow them and you will be lead astray
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This is true of the White Witch, but not so the White Stag, to my mind. The stag in medieval Christianity was a symbol of Christ (after St Eustace had a vision of the crucified Savior in the horns of a stag) -- and the Narnian myth was that if you capture the White Stag, he made your wishes come true. I don't think that he led the Pevensies astray; he led them back to their own world as Aslan intended.
 
Jadis-the-White said:
I am sorry but I only read McDolands Lilith as PotW brought it up in an other post and as I said it was just a romantic novel woven around the Adam, Eve and Lilith story. Susan was from our world not Narnia she was a teenager at the time but stayed in it till she was a young woman. When Susan left as a woman by following the White Stag as they all did and where told about it by Mr Tumans do you not see what Lewis was saying White Witch, White Stag them and you will be lead astray. :)
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This is probably waaaay off topic, but I keep seeing something about the Adam, Eve, and Lilith story. What is that?

Thanks!

Eustace
 
There's something not to forget in all the ex post facto psychoanalyzing of Lewis - he may not have known what happened to Susan. In fact, he may not have even known that she wouldn't make it beyond the Stable Door until he actually got there in the storyline.

Speaking as an author myself, and having read accounts by other authors such as Lewis and Tolkien, as well as spoken with author colleagues, I can attest to the fact that stories can take on a life of their own. They can take unexpected turns, new characters you didn't anticipate can appear, or characters can do things "on their own".

There's no way of knowing, because Lewis left no record, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he was just writing the story and, when he came to Tirian appearing at the banquet of the Friends of Narnia, "discovered" there were only seven attendees. If it worked that way, and if Lewis wrote like I do, he would have asked himself, "Oh - where's Susan?", and his imagination would have told him.

Again, I'm not claiming that this is what happened, just that this kind of thing happens when I write, and apparently it happens to others as well. But if it did work like that, it would leave totally open the question of what ultimately happened to her, because it wouldn't be like Lewis knew himself. Perhaps if he'd picked up a pen with the intent to write that part, his imagination would have told him. I doubt it would have been some kind of dark ending like the destruction of Belbury in That Hideous Strength, but there's no telling. I think if we wanted a clue, we could look to Orual in Till We Have Faces, who did a much more terrible thing than Susan ever did, but found redemption in the end.
 
Eustace C. Scrubb said:
This is probably waaaay off topic, but I keep seeing something about the Adam, Eve, and Lilith story. What is that?
Eustace
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It is a bit off topic, and I don't want to post a link to sources for information here, because some of the details of the Lilith legends aren't suitable for a family friendly forum.

There's been some discussion on the Problem of Evil in Narnia thread on the issue of the relevance of Lilith to the Chronicles. Probably best to steer any followup discussion over there.
 
inkspot said:
I would have loved another book by CSL that told Susan's reconversion story; that would have been splendid! And I like to believe that she did return to Aslan's country eventually.


This is true of the White Witch, but not so the White Stag, to my mind. The stag in medieval Christianity was a symbol of Christ (after St Eustace had a vision of the crucified Savior in the horns of a stag) -- and the Narnian myth was that if you capture the White Stag, he made your wishes come true. I don't think that he led the Pevensies astray; he led them back to their own world as Aslan intended.
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Why did Aslan lead them out of Narnia in the gise of a white stag only to bring them back later as kids? St Eustace mite have had a vision but it was an ordinaly stag ie a brown one. In Narnia White is the colour of evil not black which we seem to belive in our world. The White Witch, the White Stag, the White Horse of the Green Lady who was called Snowflake, in PC the Hag called her White Lady. In our world White is good and and black is bad hence the black magic or white magic, in Narnia it is the Deep Magic it has no colour. :)
 
Eustace C. Scrubb said:
This is probably waaaay off topic, but I keep seeing something about the Adam, Eve, and Lilith story. What is that?

Thanks!

Eustace
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All I can suggest is you go online or read books and reserch the Lilith Myth as I had to do as Lewis put her in his book, in fact she was a figure demonised by the christian faith as was Mary Madglean. :):
 
Jadis-the-White said:
All I can suggest is you go online or read books and reserch the Lilith Myth as I had to do as Lewis put her in his book, in fact she was a figure demonised by the christian faith as was Mary Madglean. :):
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Jadis, please ... this is off topic, but can't go unanswered. Mary Magdalen was not demonized by the Christian faith. She was known as the Apostle to the Apostles, is a saint in the Catholic church and regarded as a hero of the faith among Protestants. You seem to have a very sketchy idea of what traditional/orthodox Christianity is. Please stop making this off-hand comments as if they are fact, and stop making them at all in this particular thread, thank you.

As regards the White Stag: do you think that Aslan didn't intend for the children to leave Narnia? I have never heard such an argument before.
 
inkspot said:
Jadis, please ... this is off topic, but can't go unanswered. Mary Magdalen was not demonized by the Christian faith. She was known as the Apostle to the Apostles, is a saint in the Catholic church and regarded as a hero of the faith among Protestants. You seem to have a very sketchy idea of what traditional/orthodox Christianity is. Please stop making this off-hand comments as if they are fact, and stop making them at all in this particular thread, thank you.

As regards the White Stag: do you think that Aslan didn't intend for the children to leave Narnia? I have never heard such an argument before.
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Well you tell me what is the topic, it has changed and has other people post on it, I was only replaying back to Eustace c scrubb about Lilith. Which Mary do you refare to Protestants do not hold her in the same way as Catholics do, as the mother of Jesus, they do not talk or preach about her in their churches, not in Ireland anyway. The Mary I was talking about is the prosatue who washed his feet, his wife, who christianty demonised, as Jesus was not married in the bible but there is proof that he was. I will not get involved in a all out war on this. And for off hand comments I have not made any I have quoted from Lewis books but you and others have put a christian take on it. If Aslan wanted the kids to stay and they ruled well in to their adult life, why did he lure them out? if it was him. :)
 
PrinceOfTheWest said:
There's something not to forget in all the ex post facto psychoanalyzing of Lewis - he may not have known what happened to Susan. In fact, he may not have even known that she wouldn't make it beyond the Stable Door until he actually got there in the storyline.

Speaking as an author myself, and having read accounts by other authors such as Lewis and Tolkien, as well as spoken with author colleagues, I can attest to the fact that stories can take on a life of their own. They can take unexpected turns, new characters you didn't anticipate can appear, or characters can do things "on their own".

There's no way of knowing, because Lewis left no record, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he was just writing the story and, when he came to Tirian appearing at the banquet of the Friends of Narnia, "discovered" there were only seven attendees. If it worked that way, and if Lewis wrote like I do, he would have asked himself, "Oh - where's Susan?", and his imagination would have told him.

Again, I'm not claiming that this is what happened, just that this kind of thing happens when I write, and apparently it happens to others as well. But if it did work like that, it would leave totally open the question of what ultimately happened to her, because it wouldn't be like Lewis knew himself. Perhaps if he'd picked up a pen with the intent to write that part, his imagination would have told him. I doubt it would have been some kind of dark ending like the destruction of Belbury in That Hideous Strength, but there's no telling. I think if we wanted a clue, we could look to Orual in Till We Have Faces, who did a much more terrible thing than Susan ever did, but found redemption in the end.
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No harm to you but what book have you written and where can I buy it, is it a best seller or what? is it factual or fiction? or is it your own take on the Narnia stories?. As I said I have read Mcdolands Lilith and the author happens to be a Scottish Preacher, his romantic view has no referance on the Hebrew text what so ever, I suggest you read The Hebrew Goddess which is well researched and based on facts. :)
 
Jadis-the-White said:
Well you tell me what is the topic, it has changed and has other people post on it, I was only replaying back to Eustace c scrubb about Lilith. Which Mary do you refare to Protestants do not hold her in the same way as Catholics do, as the mother of Jesus, they do not talk or preach about her in their churches, not in Ireland anyway. The Mary I was talking about is the prosatue who washed his feet, his wife, who christianty demonised, as Jesus was not married in the bible but there is proof that he was. I will not get involved in a all out war on this. And for off hand comments I have not made any I have quoted from Lewis books but you and others have put a christian take on it. If Aslan wanted the kids to stay and they ruled well in to their adult life, why did he lure them out? if it was him. :)
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Woah woah woah.

I'm an atheist here, and I have to correct you.

There's no evidence Jesus was married. (I'll leave out the other things I think there isn't evidence for).

You're just buying into a lot of the Dan Brown'ian conspiracy theories. Those make interesting novels, but not much in the realm of reality.
 
This thread discusses the possible fate of Susan after the end of the Last Battle, so let's try to keep that focused there.

My book is a set of fiction stories. You can search Amazon for The Last Ugly Person. I've another coming out shortly from the same publisher, but it'll be in e-book format.

Any discussions of Lilith should be steered back to the Problem of Evil in Narnia thread, though I doubt they'll do much good there.
 
Pardine said:
Woah woah woah.

I'm an atheist here, and I have to correct you.

There's no evidence Jesus was married. (I'll leave out the other things I think there isn't evidence for).

You're just buying into a lot of the Dan Brown'ian conspiracy theories. Those make interesting novels, but not much in the realm of reality.
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So your an Atheist? Dan Brown wrote his novel which is fiction but lousley based on fact, Dan Brown read the book Holy Grail Royal Blood and made a best seller of out it, the book he based the Da Vinci Code was from it. The three writers who wrote the book suffered the rath of the Catholic church but their book was not fiction but fact. Evidence in the bible Jesus was not married its full of them, and wot are the things you would leave out? :)
 
PrinceOfTheWest said:
This thread discusses the possible fate of Susan after the end of the Last Battle, so let's try to keep that focused there.

My book is a set of fiction stories. You can search Amazon for The Last Ugly Person. I've another coming out shortly from the same publisher, but it'll be in e-book format.

Any discussions of Lilith should be steered back to the Problem of Evil in Narnia thread, though I doubt they'll do much good there.
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Ok what is the fate of Susan or was she like McDolands Lilith in your mind a lost helpless woman that needed help. I wish you well in you'r book no dout you drew insperastion from other writers ie Lewis. The problem of evil which you started is no longer on this thread. :) And get you'r desiples to get their facts right and not cross between the books and film.
 
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The Problem with Evil in Narnia thread is here. I know you are new and may not know how to find all the threads. That thread is in a bit of an unusual spot to see in The Books of Narnia/The Chronicles of Narnia section at the bottom of the listings, meaning for general discussions. It doesn't just pop up with last posting like other threads. We need a monitor or EveningStar to look into this.
 
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Jadis-the-White said:
So your an Atheist? Dan Brown wrote his novel which is fiction but lousley based on fact, Dan Brown read the book Holy Grail Royal Blood and made a best seller of out it, the book he based the Da Vinci Code was from it. The three writers who wrote the book suffered the rath of the Catholic church but their book was not fiction but fact. Evidence in the bible Jesus was not married its full of them, and wot are the things you would leave out? :)
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While we are slightly hijacking here, Holy Blood, Holy Grail has been roundly criticized by theological AND by secular historians. And if you ever see THOSE two groups agree on something , that's quite the event. As for my atheism, do not confuse that with lack of knowledge. I know plenty regarding the bible and the other works of the apocrypha and gnostic gospels. I didn't come to atheism overnight, it took a lot of scholarship and study, sometimes in original languages.
 
"Canon to me is a religous term and referes to the bible or other religous teaching"

Jadis, canon means everything that is official within a fictional universe. Timmy said Narnia Canon, which applies only to what is written in the books. It has nothing, in this case, to do with religion or books in the Bible.

MrBob
 
By the time of the events of The Last Battle, it is better not to care about Susan. This thought has crossed my mind once or twice in the past. But not until the last few days has it really resonated.

Speaking humbly as someone who has made his own share of mistakes, I must say I've become rather frustrated with several friends who are separating themselves from God: one cares less about right and wrong, another lives selfishly, and yet another fails to proactively avoid temptation and sinful behavior. For some time, I've patiently tried to "coach," if you will, these friends of mine. I've tried to help them, I've prayed for them and I've patiently listened to and counseled them.

Well, I'm starting to think that I need to just let some people go. I need to abandom them to their own devices. That is their choice and I should certainly let them reap the consequences of their decisions. It is one thing if they try to change. But God makes clear that men cannot serve two masters.

Anyway, I think it is rather fascinating in The Last Battle how the friends of Narnia respond to Susan, who is missing in action. Her name is not even brought up until Tirian inquires about her. After briefly describing Susan's poor choices, her siblings don't even want to talk about her anymore! That's it. I think one of them says "Let's talk about something else." And then we don't hear anymore about Susan.

I care about people and will probably not stop praying for them. However, there are some friendships I'm re-evaluating. I realize where I need to set boundaries and separate myself from people I thought were my friends. These people are manipulative, and I have grossly underestimated this character flaw of theirs recently. One of my friends even mumbles about taking his own life. We've contacted the police and his family.

Susan's example is a good reminder for me of one of the outcomes of choosing separation from God. A person may choose separation from God (they may even choose eternal separation from God). They may do so out of resentment feeling that nobody understands their pain. I hope such people push past whatever challenging obstacles (either external or internal) that they face to getting help and getting close to God again. Because, if the result of Susan's disassociation is any indication...

Nobody that chooses to spend eternity in union with God is gonna give a second thought about anybody who doesn't.
 
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