Is Narnia Unrealistic?

prince_caspian

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Narnia is unrealistic. Forget about magic wardrobes, centaurs, and satyrs. I'm talking about other things. For example, why does everyone in Narnia speak English:confused:? This clearly contradicts a passage in PC which said that nobody could read the text in Aslan's How. If Narnia's language changed by the time of PC, why would the Pevensies understand Narnian? Secondly, why did Aslan create Narnia to be geocentric? That is VERY unstable. Is that the reason why Narnia only lasted less than 3000 years? Last but not least, why are there no technological advances in Narnia? I mean, at the beginning of Narnia weapons and buildings were somewhat medieval. That corresponds to about 900AD in our world. In Prince Caspian technology should have advanced to about 2900 AD in our world which means starships and guns. But in Narnia it stays the same: swords, daggers, maces, axes.................
 
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prince_caspian said:
why are there no technological advances in Narnia?
Because in a children's books, those things don't apply... There is no questioning about the world they live in or how it works in these things. It's just written down for little kids to enjoy... Then you make a lot of money writing it...
 
Nevermind the talking mouse ... why is he speaking english?

And instead of Telmarines it should've been spacemarines.


Which reminds me, on spaceships why is there always gravity? And why are entire planets only 1 climate? e.g. the Ice Planet Hoth, the desert planet Dune.

And why does the captain of a starship beam down to a hostile planet himself and engage in hand to hand combat with aliens when that's what the aforementioned spacemarines are for?
 
But it's NOT that unrealistic.

As for LANGUAGE - here Lewis acts under the presumption that the Tower of Babel incident will be treated as a literal historical event. Without some attempt from man to reach the gods by building their own tower, there would be a one-world language.

We don't know what language they spoke in Narnia. It probably wasn't English. We know this because Digory and Polly in the Magician's Nephew found that bell and hammer with strange symbols written on them. When Digory stared at it for a while, a magic spell rearranged the letters into English. In other words either the inscription or...more likely...Digory, was adjusted to the new world. If the Narnian language is imparted to visitors from out-world when they enter by magic, it is highly likely that it DID change over the centuries and that each time people came in they spoke the CURRENT Narnian dialect. And just as the visitors returned the same age as when they left, they returned speaking the same language as when they left.

As for TECHNICAL ADVANCES, well, that's easy. For SEVERAL MILLENIA people on Earth used swords, bows, daggers and shields. King David, the Pharoah of Ancient Egypt, and King Richard the Lionhearted could have taken on Blackbeard the pirate and other than his two single-shot pistols in his belt, Blackbeard would have been well versed in the same exact swordplay used by his ancient foes.

Human beings are rather weak creatures in terms of facing the wilderness alone. Those that had to endure long harsh cold seasons adapted technologies to compensate. Something fluffy badgers did not have to do. It takes relatively little to make a badger comfy in Finland. His human neighbour, however, needs a lot of clothing and equipment.

In Europe and the Middle East...particularly in Northern Europe...growing seasons were short, and those who did master agriculture had to defend themselves militarily against those who would take their goods by force rather than grow their own. There was an arms race and an increasing reliance of technology.

In places in the world where nature is kind, you see the opposite. A slow pace of life, very little technology, and a lifestyle based around the rhythms of nature. Not because people were stupid in Central Africa or the Australian outback but because their intelligence was expressed in other ways than dealing with the climate.

As for a Geocentric universe being "unstable"...how would you know? Have you ever observed one? The shorter life span of Narnia would seem to agree with the sun being a relatively small body that did not have the potential to burn for billions of years. It is a recognized truth in physics, particularly the physics of the Big Bang, that an emerging universe may have different physical laws than the one that existed before. Yes we have physical laws in our universe that are constant. That's not to say its the only possible set of physical laws, and even mainstream science knows that. It's consistent...the way a housepainter might be asked to paint all your walls GREEN and so he does, but if you had chosen RED they would have all been the same shade of red. The colour can differ, but once chosen it does not vary.

A flat earth could exist, and because of its size it would have gravity just like Earth's. But it would have no magnetic field and therefore a compass would not work. It would also have less gravity toward the edges. Prince Caspian would have weighed less as he approached Aslan's Country.

I hope that at least gets people thinking.
 
Narnia is unrealistic. Forget about magic wardrobes, centaurs, and satyrs. I'm talking about other things. For example, why does everyone in Narnia speak English:confused:? This clearly contradicts a passage in PC which said that nobody could read the text in Aslan's How. If Narnia's language changed by the time of PC, why would the Pevensies understand Narnian? Secondly, why did Aslan create Narnia to be geocentric? That is VERY unstable. Is that the reason why Narnia only lasted less than 3000 years? Last but not least, why are there no technological advances in Narnia? I mean, at the beginning of Narnia weapons and buildings were somewhat medieval. That corresponds to about 900AD in our world. In Prince Caspian technology should have advanced to about 2900 AD in our world which means starships and guns. But in Narnia it stays the same: swords, daggers, maces, axes.................

Ok 1. Narnia lasted MORE that 3000 years. Look in The Last Battle when Tiran tells Jill and Eustace he is from 'A long line of desndents'. Think about Caspian's ancestors. 9 ruled in about a 1000 year period.

2. Remember in MN the first King and Queen spoke english so to understand their leaders the Narnians did.

3. The Stone Table Aslan's How. Well would you be able to read words from before the Dawn of Time? That was why they couldn't interpret writing on the Stone Table.

4. Advances of Narnia? Do you really think It'd be a good idea to give the Telmarians guns? Ever think Aslan may have prevented the Narnians from getting more advanced? Simplisty is sometimes better.

Tis what I think.
 
Narnia is unrealistic. Forget about magic wardrobes, centaurs, and satyrs. I'm talking about other things. For example, why does everyone in Narnia speak English:confused:? This clearly contradicts a passage in PC which said that nobody could read the text in Aslan's How. If Narnia's language changed by the time of PC, why would the Pevensies understand Narnian? Secondly, why did Aslan create Narnia to be geocentric? That is VERY unstable. Is that the reason why Narnia only lasted less than 3000 years? Last but not least, why are there no technological advances in Narnia? I mean, at the beginning of Narnia weapons and buildings were somewhat medieval. That corresponds to about 900AD in our world. In Prince Caspian technology should have advanced to about 2900 AD in our world which means starships and guns. But in Narnia it stays the same: swords, daggers, maces, axes.................

in that case, I will tell you what I always say when my brother or sister ask me questions about sotries, movies and life (which sometimes are really complicated)

It's like that

I mean CS Lewis wrote the book that way, ok !! I know it can be weird, but nothing's perfect. And if Narnian creatures didn't speak the Pevensies' language that is english, I wonder how they would have talked together ... It's just a magical world ... Fantastic, a fairy tale, we don't really need proves like the one we need when we read a book about crimes an detective ...
 
You wanna talk unrealistic, you gotta go into Lord of the Rings country. That world was something like 50,000 years old by the end of Return of the King, and they still were using swords and crossbows. Narnia's too young for that, though you've got me thinking about LotR. :D
 
Narnia is unrealistic. Forget about magic wardrobes, centaurs, and satyrs. I'm talking about other things. For example, why does everyone in Narnia speak English:confused:? This clearly contradicts a passage in PC which said that nobody could read the text in Aslan's How. If Narnia's language changed by the time of PC, why would the Pevensies understand Narnian? Secondly, why did Aslan create Narnia to be geocentric? That is VERY unstable. Is that the reason why Narnia only lasted less than 3000 years? Last but not least, why are there no technological advances in Narnia? I mean, at the beginning of Narnia weapons and buildings were somewhat medieval. That corresponds to about 900AD in our world. In Prince Caspian technology should have advanced to about 2900 AD in our world which means starships and guns. But in Narnia it stays the same: swords, daggers, maces, axes.................

Don't be so technical.I like it the way it is.IT'S FICTION,FOR PETE"S SAKE!!!!
 
We also have a very distorted view of technological progress. The past 200 years have seen an explosion of inquiry and innovation that are unmatched in human history (and have not always been a good thing.) We moderns are big on poking around inside things, tearing them apart, and trying to figure out new ways to look at things. Most people throughout history have not been like that. The Chinese had gunpowder for centuries but only used it for fireworks - if the military potential was ever recognized, it was never exploited. The ancient Inca knew about wheels, but only used them for toys, never for functional utility. Our experience of society and progress is very much the exception in history, not the rule.
 
Come on folks. Earth and Narnia are not exactly parallel.

Most importantly there was no "Fall of Man" on Narnia. Though sins were committed, no one committed an act that made all subsequent beings of all species inherently prone to sin. The significance of this cannot be overestimated.

And as for everyone speaking English, I also hasten to point out that Narnia was not a WORLD, it was a COUNTRY on a world. Since the dwarves were referred to as "Sons of Earth" it is entirely possible that the world on which Narnia rested was called Earth as well, otherwise the dwarves might have been "Sons of Soil" or "Underground Folks".

What it all comes down to is that Narnia might not be "real" by your expectations of reality. It is absolutely clear to me that a DIFFERENT WORLD in a DIFFERENT UNIVERSE (and Narnia is not out there in space...you can't fly to it) would MOST LIKELY have different physical laws and not be subject to what we consider the bounds of reality.
 
The Chinese had gunpowder for centuries but only used it for fireworks - if the military potential was ever recognized, it was never exploited. The ancient Inca knew about wheels, but only used them for toys, never for functional utility. Our experience of society and progress is very much the exception in history, not the rule.
I agree with you on the Chinese, but the Incas... you gotta give 'em a break. I mean, they didn't have any adequate animals to pull whatever they had, so what's the point of use, really? :( I bet if they did, they would've used their invention.
 
That's true. Evidence also indicates that they weren't predisposed to think of wheels because so much of their landscape went up-and-down. But that prejudice hobbled them even when they expanded into flatter territory!

My point was only to contrast past ages with ours, which looks at the world with an eye to examining ways to improve (or exploit!) it further. Historically a very odd, if not unique, perspective.
 
I'll reply to other worldbuilding concerns later, but Narnians speak English because their first King and Queen were English. Remember Frank and Helen? True, the language probably should have developed or changed some afterward, but Lewis chose to leave it as it was for the sake of simplicity. Unlike most fantasy, worldbuilding wasn't the focus of Narnia -- the stories were.
 
CS Lewis didn't knoiw about the eletronic stuff, and others, how could he put it in his book!! I think CoN is great the way it is, we can't change it, we must not ...
 
OK, back from work and class, so I can address this more fully.
Narnia is unrealistic. Forget about magic wardrobes, centaurs, and satyrs. I'm talking about other things. For example, why does everyone in Narnia speak English:confused:? This clearly contradicts a passage in PC which said that nobody could read the text in Aslan's How. If Narnia's language changed by the time of PC, why would the Pevensies understand Narnian? Secondly, why did Aslan create Narnia to be geocentric? That is VERY unstable. Is that the reason why Narnia only lasted less than 3000 years? Last but not least, why are there no technological advances in Narnia? I mean, at the beginning of Narnia weapons and buildings were somewhat medieval. That corresponds to about 900AD in our world. In Prince Caspian technology should have advanced to about 2900 AD in our world which means starships and guns. But in Narnia it stays the same: swords, daggers, maces, axes.................
I've already explained why Narnians speak English -- Aslan brought the first settlers from England. However, this doesn't explain why Narnian English is exactly the same as ours. In the centuries that Narnia existed, the language ought to have changed and developed some. It can't be influenced by other languages, because English is the only one Narnia has, but it should still grow. People should still be coining words, word definitions should still be changing. That's just the nature of a living language. The text in Aslan's How, IIRC, was the ancient runic language on the Stone Table, which nobody in Narnia could read. It's from before Narnia's time.

As to why Narnia is geocentric...well, why not? It's a fantasy realm. As long as Lewis didn't write anything that would contradict the physics of a flat, geocentric planet, it's fine. (I can't say whether or not he did, as I know nothing about such things.)

Technology: First off, Narnia is less than 3000 years old, and it didn't start in the height of medieval technology. Frank and Helen were very simple people, even if they did come from a more advanced era. I doubt they had the education or ambition to continue advancing technology, or even to recreate what they knew of it, so Narnia was essentially starting over from scratch. As others pointed out, technological has only advanced really rapidly within the last century or so in our world, and it's much older than Narnia. Yes, the Telmarines came in later, and they may have had technology, but it's hard to say when in Earth time they were from, or even how much technology they had at the time. They were shipwreck fugitives, so I doubt they had much technology either, and even if they had a few guns on them, they'd have to have someone with the education and ability to replicate them.

Additionally, Lewis was playing off an old literary trope with his Narnia stories, by making them all take place in a medieval-esque world. He was playing off the nostalgic idea that things were better during the medieval period, that men were braver and women were more virtuous, and that the world was a more romantic place. He's not the first author to do so; there was a renewed interest in the Arthurian romances around the 19th century. By following in this tradition, Lewis was ensuring that Narnia would be viewed as a charmed, idealistic world that the children would always want to return to. And, if we look at what he wrote about Eustace's progressive, modern family and school, Lewis didn't seem to be in favor of progress for the sake of progress.

Don't be so technical.I like it the way it is.IT'S FICTION,FOR PETE"S SAKE!!!!
Oh, the "It's fiction!" excuse. I see this everywhere when discussing fantasy worldbuilding, and it just doesn't cut it. Yes, you can get away with some things because of fiction (dwarves, satyrs, nature spirits, etc. existing), but you can't use it to explain everything away. A fantasy world still has to retain internal logic or risk severe criticism, so Prince_Caspian's questions are entirely valid. How HAS a world existed for two millenia without the language changing even a little? It doesn't make sense. My own personal belief is that Lewis just ignored the question as he didn't find it relevant to his purpose. After all, as JRRT's best friend, one can hardly assume him to be ignorant on the subject of linguistics.

Most observant readers of the Narnia books know that they lack consistency in multiple areas, both in terms of worldbuilding and in continuity (oh, the continuity errors surrounding Jadis and her backstory!). I generally try not to let those bother me, because I think the stories themselves are good enough to warrant a bit of selective blindness in those areas. However, they are very valid questions to raise and make for interesting discussions.
 
Nobody even seems to have considered my arguement. How do you even know they ever spoke English in Narnia in the first place?

We already know that Jadis in Charn had a bell to wake her from perpetual sleep. The language was Charnish but when Digory stared at it, the text changed into English.

Magic, magic, magic.

People aren't supposed to return their original age either. But they did. I think they were matriculated into the world when they were magically brought from Earth and returned to their normal state as they went back. Linguistically as well as chronologically.
 
We assume they spoke English because 1) Frank and Helen WERE English, and 2) because I think the narrative would have pointed it out if Narnians spoke something other than English, or if there was a point in time at which the children couldn't understand them. As you said, the Charnish language changed so that Digory could understand it, and Digory spoke English. If Narnia had a similar system, I'm sure Lewis would have addressed it somewhere, either amongst the children, or Digory would have explained it like he explained Narnian time.
 
We also have a very distorted view of technological progress. The past 200 years have seen an explosion of inquiry and innovation that are unmatched in human history


That made me think of this verse regarding the end times:

But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase. - Daniel 12:4

Knowledge has increased exponentially in such a short period of time and ask an air traffic controller about many running to and fro.

I am glad that C.S. Lewis made everyone in Narnia speak english. I hate reading subtitles in movies. "Hey look a talking beaver! But what is he saying?"
 
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