Is Narnia Unrealistic?

You wanna talk unrealistic, you gotta go into Lord of the Rings country. That world was something like 50,000 years old by the end of Return of the King, and they still were using swords and crossbows. Narnia's too young for that, though you've got me thinking about LotR. :D

I don't want to get off-topic (sorry mods), but (thinking about LotR :)) I guess you have to take into account the other races. I'm sure Middle Earth developed technologically at a different pace than Earth, just because of the presence of dwarves, for instance. dwarves are fundamentally metal-workers, and they had a lot of influence on the tools that humans, elves and dwarves used. it may have, in a way, slowed down the progress of other kinds of tools, just because no one felt a need for something more.

and then of course, you have the elves, the Istari, the Valar, hobbits...

that also I guess, relates to the narnia 'problem.' There were tons of other races (satyrs, centaurs, fauns, dryads, etc.) that probably changed the culture in a similar way.

Just my thoughts, again, sorry to get off-topic. :D (must...defend...Tolkien!)
 
How typically modernist of folk to think you are what you drive, fly and type. Jesus didn't have a personal computer. The Apostle Peter did not drive a Ford (though the disciples were of one Accord). Who is to say that their lives were impoverished because they never played Mortal Kombat or heard a Journey music video?

People aren't primitive because their technology is. And trust me folks, the people who bragged about the World's Fair of 1893 having all electric lighting did not think of themselves as quaint and backwards. To them the telegraph WAS the internet, and the telephone WAS a webcam.

Einstein was discouraged from pursuing physics as a career because, as they told him, all the great discoveries had already been made.

We are all privileged to be more advanced than our fathers and more primitive than our sons. That is the way of life. But every generation has fallen in love, watched the spring flowers come out of the snows of winter and had some great frontier to explore. Hey, I have a 19th century joke book. People used to laugh and sing back then. They also laughed and sang in the 14th century. And the 1st. And the 200th century BC. And about many of the same things.
 
lol@Mortal Kombat. No Halo no way.

People sometimes confuse intelligence with acquired knowledge. Todays scientists are standing on the shoulders of those who came before them.

But I am glad I didn't live in a time where I had to wait until I was 16 to get my chariot license.
 
"why does everyone in Narnia speak English?"

Ah yes, caspian, the eternal question of sci-fi/fanasy literature where everyone seems to speak the same language. In Star trek, they have the universal translator. In Charn, the enchantments in the room caused Digory and Polly to be able to read the lettering on the pillar (it never changed to English, Digory and Polly were just able to understand it). I assume that something similar happened in Narnia.

Realize that in MN, Digory, Polly understood the animals who could talk while Andrew could not. All he knew was that animals were chasing after him and assaulting him by trying to bury him. Little did he know that they were merely confused what he was. Apparently, as a part of the Magic from the Dawn of Time, one can understand all languages in Narnia if one is a willing participant. The Uncle Andrews will never undertand it.

"why are there no technological advances in Narnia?"

There were advances. The Telmarines had gunpowder. The problem is that the original founders who first came to Narnia were ignorant of how to make certain items. Frank and Helen were simple folk who preferred the simple rural life. They had all they needed and had no idea how to even make advanced technology so they could not give any instructions how to make guns or electricity.

The Pevensies were children so they didn't have the education to understand how to do anything. The Telmarines in a few hundred years did discover the amazing use of gunpowder in fireworks but did not undertand how to make guns. The original Telmarines were pirates with their wives, but they had to figure out how to survive in Telmar before they could even think of making advances. By the time they created a prosperous village, they would have had to search the entire land for the correct materials for the materials used to make gunpowder and metals, along with ovens that would get hot enough to melt metal to turn into guns, but after they did that, easy weapons such as swords and knives would have been the more important. The first generation would have died off before they could have truly discovered everything and by then, all of the technologies in their world would have died with them.

If you look at when humans started using bows and arrows and swords, it as about 2,000-3,000 years. The longest constantly human-inhabited land was Archenland and that was inhabited from around 30 so they should have been the most technologically advanced. The country of Narnia was sporadically inhabited by humans. They were out of Narnia about the year 900, back in 1000, out again in 1030, and back in about 1600 (maybe later). The Telmarines were the longest-lasting humans who inhabited Narnia. They were around for roughly 1,000 years.

MrBob
 
Where did the Calormenes come from? They're obviously inspired by Arabian culture but does Lewis ever say? Also Archenland, where did they come from? I always thought that the prophecy of 2 Sons of Adam and 2 Daughters of Eve meant that there were no other humans in the world or was it just Narnia?

In LWW the queen doesn't know what to make of Edmund at first. But if there are plenty of sons of adam and daughters of eve living just beyond her southern border why would he seem so alien?

Edit: by 'queen' I meant white witch of course. No freudian slip there ... hehe. Long live Aslan!
 
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A flat earth could exist, and because of its size it would have gravity just like Earth's. But it would have no magnetic field and therefore a compass would not work. It would also have less gravity toward the edges. Prince Caspian would have weighed less as he approached Aslan's Country.

I hope that at least gets people thinking.

Is it because of the low gravity that Aslan's Country's mountains grow high?:D
 
You guys, once freaking again, changed the title of ANOTHER thread, so it could fit with your family friendly policy crap. The author wasn't asking a question, they were making a statement. Everyone on this board, will, without a doubt, agree that is realistic without question, because they are fans of the books. Just leave it be and let everyone hear the author's thoughts, because no one but the author will dare oppose the books writings.
 
Last but not least, why are there no technological advances in Narnia? I mean, at the beginning of Narnia weapons and buildings were somewhat medieval. That corresponds to about 900AD in our world. In Prince Caspian technology should have advanced to about 2900 AD in our world which means starships and guns. But in Narnia it stays the same: swords, daggers, maces, axes.................

Very easy to answer. Funny things guns need. Guns need gunpowder. There isn't any gunpowder in Narnia.

In addition, there are no fossils in Narnia, and therefore no fossil fuels. They could not have things like guns and starships because they do not have the resources to build them. Simple.

Besides, do you expect a Donkey to build a computer?
 
I remember reading a fantasy series and I don't remember the name but half way through it the good guys developed gun powder and started employing firearms. The story went downhill from there and I just put it down.


Firearms kinda takes the charm out of knights in shining armor when they are rendered targets in bullet ridden tin cans.
 
Was that the Amber series?

Of course, given that Narnia (and Middle Earth, for that matter) are imaginary worlds, the ultimate answer to any question "Why are things this or that way?" is "Because the author wanted it that way." But this only pushes the question back a level - why did the author want things that way?

Of course, we can only speculate on that, given that we can't ask Lewis (or Tolkien) directly. But having studied both men's lives and outlooks on life, I'd speculate there are a couple of factors that may have influenced their creating the worlds that they did.

One is very immediate and practical: they were both constructing worlds that exulted heroism and nobility. Weapons such as guns don't do that. In fact, many have observed that the advent of the firearm (and, interestingly, the crossbow before it) removed the element of personal risk and valor from combat. A weak, cowardly, unskilled person with a gun can kill a strong, noble, skilled warrior with a sword. This "leveling" effect has been lauded by some as a desirable development, but others (including myself) have observed that it had the effect of empowering bullies and cowards. In fact, you do find gunpowder in The Lord of the Rings - Saruman's troops use it at Helm's Deep (see the reference to "blasting fire"). It's seen as a coward's weapon.

A more abstract but fundamental reason may have been that Lewis and Tolkien were making a statement about "progress". The unquestioned assumption of our world - and the one implicit in prince_caspian's original question - is that increasing technological complexity is "progress". I think both these men, who saw the carnage of the trenches of WWI, seriously questioned whether technological progress, particularly in weaponry, was progress of any kind. To both of them, social "progress" would be growth in nobility, strength, courtesy, and humility. A culture wherein people watched out for each other and took care of the weak would be more "progressive" than one wherein people were selfish and the weak were victimized. This has nothing to do with levels of technological sophistication - you could have a simple society where people plowed with oxen and defended themselves with clubs, but valued nobility and honor, while another culture had telephones and automobiles but were rude and cruel to one another (or vice versa).

I think that if prince_caspian's question about technology "advancing" were to be posed to either Lewis or Tolkien, they would ask, "what does technology have to do with advancement?"
 
Was that the Amber series?


Speaking of modern conveniences, thank goodness for Google or this would have bothered me to no end. This is the series I was talking about:

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Gee, that looks cheesy.

No, I was referring to Roger Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber. The first ones aren't too bad, but as the series goes on - well, let's just say he's got more story than imagination, if you catch my drift.
 
Gee, that looks cheesy.

lol what can I say? I was like 12 or 13 and full blown into my D&D phase.

No, I was referring to Roger Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber. The first ones aren't too bad, but as the series goes on - well, let's just say he's got more story than imagination, if you catch my drift.

I was reading the synopsises and was like yikes - can I get the cliff notes?

Yeah at that age I had already read through the CoN and The Lord of the Rings and unfortunately all other fantasy settings paled in comparison.
 
I'm afraid that's just how it is. Lewis and Tolkien just set the standard, and everything else is downhill from there.
 
A more abstract but fundamental reason may have been that Lewis and Tolkien were making a statement about "progress". The unquestioned assumption of our world - and the one implicit in prince_caspian's original question - is that increasing technological complexity is "progress". I think both these men, who saw the carnage of the trenches of WWI, seriously questioned whether technological progress, particularly in weaponry, was progress of any kind. To both of them, social "progress" would be growth in nobility, strength, courtesy, and humility. A culture wherein people watched out for each other and took care of the weak would be more "progressive" than one wherein people were selfish and the weak were victimized. This has nothing to do with levels of technological sophistication - you could have a simple society where people plowed with oxen and defended themselves with clubs, but valued nobility and honor, while another culture had telephones and automobiles but were rude and cruel to one another (or vice versa).

Well said, well said, and my thought exactly. To put it the way Lewis did:

"Have you no idea of progress, of development?"
"I have seen them both in an egg. We call it 'Going Bad' in Narnia."

Progress doesn't always equate with 'good,' because part of what it replaces might not be something it would be best for society to lose.
 
"Where did the Calormenes come from? They're obviously inspired by Arabian culture but does Lewis ever say? Also Archenland, where did they come from? I always thought that the prophecy of 2 Sons of Adam and 2 Daughters of Eve meant that there were no other humans in the world or was it just Narnia?"

dawnpatrol, Lewis never did authoritatively say where the Calormenes came from. There is an entry in the "Official" Narnia Timeline that states Calormen was started when outlaws from Archenland founded the nation, but that is speculative as the veracity of the timeline is in question.

Archenland was founded by Frank and Helen's second son. It is assumed that the royal family comes directly from his line. How they stayed human throughout history (them and the Narnian royal family) is unknown and not explained by Lewis. Both Archenland and Calormen were peopled during Jadis' rule. Shasta in H&HB was born the year the Pevensies came through the wardrobe. The Calormen civilization was also alive and well during that time. The islands were all inhabited including Galma (the closest to Narnia), Terabinthia, the Seven Isles, and the Lone Islands. Remember that Jadis declared herself the Emperess of the Lone Islands.

It is possible that Jadis just hadn't seen humans in so long that she didn't imagine she would come across them now, especially so far west. Archenland and the islands were probably great places for humans to exile to during the reign of Jadis.

MrBob
 
It is possible that Jadis just hadn't seen humans in so long that she didn't imagine she would come across them now, especially so far west. Archenland and the islands were probably great places for humans to exile to during the reign of Jadis.

Since their were obviously humans in other parts of the world, and it seems like the Narnians would know about them even if they hadn't seen them in a long time, I wonder why Mr. Tumnus had books like Is Man A Myth?
 
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