Israel Conflict

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Grey Pilgrim

Grey Pilgrim

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well i dont where to post this so mods plz move it in the right place if its is wrong
lam curios why is the united states helping the isrealies when they should be helping out Palestine and lebenon now iam not saying what is happing to the jews and other people living right but what of the thousands of Palestinians and lebonese people who are being thorwn into iserali dungeons and killed now i understand the jews wanted a home after WW II who could blame em but what gives them the right to push people who have been living there all there lives to now make them move out why did they just say to them get out of here we are moving in now
 
The problem is a very complicated one.

But first of all, God gave the land of Israel to the Jews, according to the Bible, forever. The Jews are even today considered God's chosen people with Christians being considered as being grafted in or adopted Jews.

For the most part the Palestinians do not merely want a homeland, they want the Jews totally gone, obliterated from the face of the Earth. This struggle goes all the way back to Abraham and his two children, Isaac and Ishmael. Isaac, the rightful heir to Abraham, and Ishmael the illegitimate son of Abraham and Sarah's handmaiden according to the Bible. So the Jewish/Arab conflict goes back thousands of years.

The U.S. supports Israel in part to bring a balance to the conflict since other Arab nations arm the Palestinians and before that the Soviet Union armed them as well. If we were to turn our backs on Israel, they would have a difficult time acquiring arms with which to defend themselves. Plus God said, "I will bless them that bless thee (Israel) and will curse them that curse thee (again Israel). No nation who has risen up against Israel and the Jewish people ever survived for long before being driven out.

Israel does not just charge in and imprison people arbitrarily. They are either terrorists, people who support the terrorists, etc. When Israel retaliates against the Palestinians who are using Lebanon as a staging area for training and attacking Israelies, they generally hit known or suspected military targets. Unfortunately there are innocent civilian casualties. When the U.S. bombed Germany and Japan during WWII there were thousands of civilian casualties. Unfortunately that is often part of the price of war.

But when Palestinians use terrorist bombings against Israel, no Israeli military targets are ever attacked. Instead they attack school or city buses, restaurants, theaters, parks, etc., deliberately inflicting death and destruction only upon innocent civilians who were merely out in public. The Palestinians could have a homeland if they pressed the issue. The Arab nations are over 100 times the size of Israel and yet none of them are willing to give a homeland to the Palestinians and they are Arabs and Muslims as well. Why? Because the other Arab nations do not want the Palestinians in their country either. They would rather use the Palestinians to further inflame other Arabs and Muslims against Israel so that they can use the Palestinian people as an excuse to never have real peace with Israel and escalate the conflict.
 
The problem is a little more complex than that. America was founded by people firmly grounded in the Judeo-Christianic heritage, and many Christians feel that the triumph of Israel is one of the steps that is the inevitability of history and the fulfilment of certain Biblical prophesies.

I have no doubt whatsoever that if it were not for Israel's role in prophesy that the United States would probably disengage itself or at least reduce its role to be conmensurate with what it does in other regional conflicts.

I shan't couch the Israel/Palestinian issue in terms of good and evil. However I shall point out that the Jews consider Gentiles that follow the seven Noahide Laws to be righteous people who shall be saved whereas the Muslims believe strict adherance to the Quaran and acceptance of the Shahada (Allah is the one God and Muhammad is his Prophet) is necessary. This divide of ideologies means that Israel would be more likely to administer people in a modern secular state then would the Palestinians. Except for some foreward thinking countries like Turkey, the majority of Muslim populations regard a return to the "good old days" as the imposition of Sharia (religious law) wherein a woman would never dare leave the house except in the company of a male relative and a man without a beard long enough to protrude through a clenched fist may be beaten and imprisoned until it grows sufficiently long.
 
but any good Muslim would respect the Jews and Christians because they are as they call them people of the book its Arab Anti Semites who dont tolerate the jews and Christians and even isreaili Arabs and actually that Israel they have agressed agansit Lebenon and Syria and tryed to push them out but Egypt Morroco, and a few other muslim countries are trying to bring peace to the holy land by helping out isreal
 
Despite what the Quaran might say in some parts, 93% of the Muslim world consider Jews and Christians as infidels and worthy of death and desire that the nation of Israel be gone totally. Even moderate Arab nations, including some that we call friends, also feel the same way about the Jews and Israel. Lebanon today is a place where the Hamas train and launch attacks against Israel, and when they do Israel retaliates which they have the legal and moral right to do so. Syria is one of the biggest Arab sponsors of terrorism today and they support the insurgents in Iraq and Al Quaida.

The Jews have not tried to push out Lebanon, but attacked based on the fact that, as I already stated, Arab militants and terrorists have used Lebanon as a base of operations and have launched attacks against Israel. The Arabs are the aggressors here and not the nation of Israel. Israel is surrounded on three sides by their enemies and must maintain readiness at all times.

As I also stated in my last post, Arab terrorists do not attack Israeli military targets but only launch attacks and suicide bombings against Israeli civilian populations, including innocent men, women and children. They do not care for the value of life. Killing Israelis or Americans, according to their beliefs, will have them be rewarded when they die. Israelis also do not use suicide bombers against any Palestinian or other Arab strongholds. They attack where they believe the terrorists are at and unfortunately there are civilian casualties.

Funny how the press and the world don't say much when a suicide bomber kills all the children in a school bus in Tel Aviv but if Israel retaliates and one Arab civilian is killed, the whole world comes down on Israel.
 
dont you think i know what happens in the holy land so much slaughter but then that is a general statement i think because i know that the arab terrorists hate em but to say to the whole country now thats wrong because i have alot of friends who live in saudi arabia and other muslim countries who dont hate jews or christans and infact In the course of Muhammad's proselytizing in Mecca, he viewed Christians and Jews (both of whom he referred to as "People of the Book") as natural allies, sharing the core principles of his teachings, and anticipated their acceptance and support. Muslims, like Jews, were at that time praying towards Jerusalem.[2] Muhammad was very excited to move to Medina, where the Jewish community there had long worshiped the one God

Islam affirms that Moses (Musa) was given a revelation, the Torah, which Muslims call Tawrat in Arabic, and believed to be the word of God (Allah). However, they also believe that this original revelation was modified over time by Jewish (and Christian) scribes and preachers. According to Islamic belief, the present Jewish scriptures were no longer the original divine revelations given to Moses. Muslims believe the Qur'an is the final revelation from God and a completion of the previous revelations.

its interesting of how you say all Muslims hate jews and christans but when Muhammad consdired them to be people of the book and allies and that the word of the christans and jews and all they belvie that this gods final message to the children of islam and isreal and christ thats all they belive it is
 
This was a dangerous thread to begin with. And it's getting worse. The moment it gets into a heated arguement over who has the one true faith, I will lock it. Do I have views? Of course I do. I do attempt to express them in ways that are not too harsh on those who disagree. It's all right to disagree in discussion threads, after all. But let's be able to leave friends at the end of the day.
 
I commend your desire to see peace in the Middle East. Unfortunately, according to the Scriptures that will not happen until Jesus returns and sets up His kingdom for 1000 years. Until that time the tiny nation of Israel will continue to be a bone of contention for the whole world.
 
Evening Star, I don't _think_ that the following will cause you to lock the thread; I am only telling the truth.

When Muslims claim to respect Jews and Christians, they only mean that they find Jews and Christians preferable to Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans and atheists. They still consider Jews and Christians immensely inferior to Muslims. Anyone, of course, may say that someone else's beliefs are abstractly mistaken; but Muslims put their own presumed superiority into concrete practice. Do you know what a "dhimmi" is? That is a Jew or Christian who lives in a Muslim-fundamentalist society. Dhimmi are not allowed to hold high government office; and they are not allowed to testify in court against a Muslim, since the dhimmi would be automatically assumed to be wrong. Contrast this with the fact that Muslims DO hold elected office in both Israel and the United States.


Now, concerning the imaginary nation of Palestine: the very name "Palestine" was coined by the Roman Empire as a cynical means of denying the Jewish people's right to possess the land of Israel. It never was a distinct Arabic entity with any cultural traits that could be traced across history.

During the 19th century, the land of Israel was under the control of the Ottoman Turkish Empire, and was almost entirely uninhabited. There was no talk at all of a "sovereign nation of Palestine." Before World War One began, a number of Jews received Turkish permission to resettle in their ancestral homeland. Once there, they began developing the land, building homes, planting crops and so on. Then itinerant Arabs began drifting in from nearby countries to find employment. The so-called Arab nation of Palestine simply amounts to the descendants of these migrant workers.

When Gaza, the Golan Heights and the West Bank were held by Egypt, Syria and Jordan, there was no outcry from the Muslim world that Egypt, Syria and Jordan must hand over these areas to the "Palestinians." Only after Israel won its war of self-defense in 1967, and gained control of lands which had been used as staging areas to attack Israel, was the fiction of a Palestinian nation used as propaganda material to make Israel appear imperialistic. They even had to import an _Egyptian_ thug, Yasser Arafat, to lead the "Palestinian" terrorist movement.

Facts are facts. Muslims in Israel, if they are not in the very act of attacking Israelis, enjoy more civil liberties than Muslims do in most _Muslim_ countries. Israel is a society with high moral standards, being pressured by enemies whose ONLY moral standard is "Heads we win, tails you lose."
 
Isreal is the best ally America has....... America has helped Isreal more than once:p

I wish I was there to see them shooting down all those jets:D
 
Son of Adam said:
I commend your desire to see peace in the Middle East. Unfortunately, according to the Scriptures that will not happen until Jesus returns and sets up His kingdom for 1000 years. Until that time the tiny nation of Israel will continue to be a bone of contention for the whole world.
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I agree with you completly. And I know that God wont let his chosen people be destroyed. So the Muslims and eveyone else that is attaking Israel is just wasting resorces, they'll never win.
 
It's especially sad that professed Christians, claiming to revere and believe God's Word, have found it convenient to ignore the Bible's many promises that Israel--not the Church instead of Israel, but ISRAEL ITSELF--would never perish entirely.

Hilaire Belloc, more or less a contemporary of Mr. Lewis, was so insanely anti-Jewish that, in a book he wrote about the Crusades, he claimed that Jesus Christ HAD NOT BEEN Jewish, but rather had been Syrian!!
 
i guess your right and i was looking for viedos and i found a really interesting one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIoOG0LBuYc
Muslims and Arabs across the globe:
Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by showing your compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. Make the holy land truly holy by giving Israel and the Jewish people the respect they deserve in their tiny little country. This is not a crisis over land. It is a crisis of the soul; a crisis in our faith, judgment and self confidence. Israel should not be regarded as an enemy, but as a blessing to our neighborhood. We need not fear peace, but embrace it.

http://www.arabsforisrael.com

We are Arabs and Moslems who believe:
• We can support Israel and still support the Palestinian people. Supporting one does not cancel support for the other.
• We can support the State of Israel and the Jewish religion and still treasure our Arab and Islamic culture.
• There are many Jews and Israelis who freely express compassion and support for the Palestinians. We Arabs also express reciprocal compassion and support.
• The existence of the State of Israel is a fact that we accept.
• Israel is a legitimate state that is not a threat but an asset in the Middle East.
• Every major World religion has a center of gravity. Islam has Mecca, and Judaism certainly deserves its presence in Israel and Jerusalem.
• Diversity is a virtue not only in the USA, but would be beneficial around the world. We support a diverse Middle East with protection for human rights, respect and equality under the law to all minorities, including Jews and Christians.
• Palestinians have several options but are deprived from exercising them because of their leadership, the Arab League and surrounding Arab and Moslem countries who have other goals besides seeing Palestinians live in harmony with Israel.
• If Palestinians want democracy they can start practicing it now.
• It will benefit Arabs to end the boycott of Israel.
• We can resolve our conflicts using non-violent means. Sending our young people on suicide/homicide missions as a form of Jihad is a distortion of Islam. We can do better.
• We are appalled by the horrific act of terror against the USA on 9/11/2001.
• It will be better for Arabs when the Arab media ends the incitement and misinformation that result in Arab street rage and violence. We support the Arab media providing coverage of ways that people of all religions are and can live together in harmony.
• We are eager to see major reformation in how Islam is taught and channeled to bring out the best in Moslems and contribute to the uplifting of the human spirit and advancement of civilization.
• We believe in freedom to choose or change one's Religion.
• We cherish and acknowledge the beauty and contributions of the Middle East culture, but recognize that the Arab/Moslem world is in desperate need of constructive self-criticism and reform.
• We seek dialogue with Israel. We invite you to join us on a path of love.

We are NOT:
• Anti-Islam, Anti-Arab, confrontational or hateful.
We remember with deep sadness and respect the brave Arabs, known and unknown, who were killed or severely punished for promoting peace with Israel; a special thanks to President Anwar Sadat of Egypt who was killed at the hands of Militant and Radical Islamists after he signed the peace treaty with Israel.
We salute and commend Arab and Moslem writers, scholars and speakers, who found the strength, commitment and honesty in their hearts to speak out in support of Israel. We thank you for being the pioneers that you are and for holding such sophisticated and advanced views in the realm of Arab and Moslem thinking. You are inspiring us all
these guys are good men and women
 
I see it as my duty to be an ally to the Jewish people. I also see it to be a right for them to have thier land back. Palistine has no right to own that land. They are terrorist and should just give up. America and Britian restored them to thier land in WW2 the Jews own it not the Palistinians.
 
No, not all of the Arabs who are misleadingly called "Palestinian" are terrorists. But the civilians of "Palestine" are under the thumbs of gangsters. If Muslims everywhere would accept the moral reality that they don't HAVE TO be in charge everywhere, THAT would be a huge step toward peace.

>> Diversity is a virtue not only in the USA, but would be beneficial
>> around the world. We support a diverse Middle East with protection
>> for human rights, respect and equality under the law to all minorities,
>> including Jews and Christians.

This I'd like to see! Mosques are allowed to operate in Israel and the United States. Exactly when will, say, Saudi Arabia allow some new churches and synagogues to be built on Saudi territory and to operate without restriction? {*Crickets chirping in the silence*}
 
Copperfox said:
No, not all of the Arabs who are misleadingly called "Palestinian" are terrorists. But the civilians of "Palestine" are under the thumbs of gangsters. If Muslims everywhere would accept the moral reality that they don't HAVE TO be in charge everywhere, THAT would be a huge step toward peace.
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And you do not think that the western countries has the same attitude...?

Copperfox said:
This I'd like to see! Mosques are allowed to operate in Israel and the United States. Exactly when will, say, Saudi Arabia allow some new churches and synagogues to be built on Saudi territory and to operate without restriction? {*Crickets chirping in the silence*}
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We all know very well that this has nothing to do with the *religion* islam. It's about freedom of speech and religion, and sorry to say, muslim countries are not as developed within this as for example the US. If you go back in European history (100 or 200 years f.example); they would not allow Mosques to be built.
 
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