After what they did to PC I am also sure that they will finish destroying the spirituality of CoN in the next movie. I am with you bud.
Just Finished Reading Voyage of the Dawn Treader
- Thread starter Lucy Fan
- Start date
After what they did to PC I am also sure that they will finish destroying the spirituality of CoN in the next movie. I am with you bud.
Catherine
New member
i think that is very likely, and i wish they wouldn't. i don't know this for sure, but i would say that a large number of fans, if not the majority, of CoN are christians who appreciate the spirituality of the series. i know many fans of the series (and i mean besides the people on this forum, people who i have actually met in person) and they are all christians . i can't recall evr having met a fan who isn't, though i know of course that there are. so i think they would do just as well to leave it alone.
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Elentari
New member
I've learned from the 3 or 4 days I've been on this forum that there are a lot more fans who AREN'T Christian than I first thought. HOWEVER, the attitude I felt from some (both in this forum and elsewhere) was that they would rather the Chronicles not have ANY Christian/religious meaning than be "all inclusive". They watch the movies (and some read the books) as a good story, nothing more. (They MIGHT be more irritated by Aslan being MORE than a Jesus figure than I would be, and that's saying a lot since I would be furious.)
Since I have always believed--from the first time I read LWW 11 years ago till the last time I read one of the Chronicles (last week?), that if you take the Christian themes and allegory out of the Chronicles, you are left with a string of very good stories with no real relevance, I've never quite imagined why those viewers/readers would want that to be the case.
If anyone wants to let me in on that, I'll listen to your side if you'll acknowledge mine.
Opening the Chronicles up to "general interpretation" will not work because Lewis was very specific in his dialogue and imagery exactly what worldview/interpretation he wanted--Christian. I'm not saying that you have to believe in Jesus Christ to "get" the books--I know they speak to large numbers of people for various reasons. But I doubt very much that believers from EVERY religion, or even just the ones we can all think of right now, can see their religious leader, or just the base of their belief, in the character representation of Aslan. As I've said earlier, who Aslan IS NOT is spelled out in the Last Battle. He is NOT the same as Tash. If he is specifically not Tash (the only other god mentioned in the Chronicles), then saying that Aslan has "many names" in our world, is a blatant misrepresentation--not artistic license. AND those same script writers who write that may have a difficult time explaining that if Aslan truly has many names, why is Tash not one of them?
I am glad that those who do not claim to be Christian are enjoying the films. I'm sure Lewis wanted them to enjoy the books as much as the Christian audience. He wrote them for people, not a specific group of people (unless you want to claim he wrote them for children, which he did--but aren't we all glad we can still enjoy them as "grown-ups"?)
Since I have always believed--from the first time I read LWW 11 years ago till the last time I read one of the Chronicles (last week?), that if you take the Christian themes and allegory out of the Chronicles, you are left with a string of very good stories with no real relevance, I've never quite imagined why those viewers/readers would want that to be the case.
If anyone wants to let me in on that, I'll listen to your side if you'll acknowledge mine.Opening the Chronicles up to "general interpretation" will not work because Lewis was very specific in his dialogue and imagery exactly what worldview/interpretation he wanted--Christian. I'm not saying that you have to believe in Jesus Christ to "get" the books--I know they speak to large numbers of people for various reasons. But I doubt very much that believers from EVERY religion, or even just the ones we can all think of right now, can see their religious leader, or just the base of their belief, in the character representation of Aslan. As I've said earlier, who Aslan IS NOT is spelled out in the Last Battle. He is NOT the same as Tash. If he is specifically not Tash (the only other god mentioned in the Chronicles), then saying that Aslan has "many names" in our world, is a blatant misrepresentation--not artistic license. AND those same script writers who write that may have a difficult time explaining that if Aslan truly has many names, why is Tash not one of them?
I am glad that those who do not claim to be Christian are enjoying the films. I'm sure Lewis wanted them to enjoy the books as much as the Christian audience. He wrote them for people, not a specific group of people (unless you want to claim he wrote them for children, which he did--but aren't we all glad we can still enjoy them as "grown-ups"?)
If the script writers go crazy in VDT film and decide to have Aslan saying he goes by many names in our world ... do you suppose they will list any of the names? Because, if he said he went by the name of Allah, well, Muslims wouldn't really like it because they dont believe God would ever be killed by man the way Jesus (along with Aslan) was ...
So rather than opening the story up to more religions to try to see Aslan as their god, it would just sort of hack people off, I think.
So rather than opening the story up to more religions to try to see Aslan as their god, it would just sort of hack people off, I think.
Solya
New member
Oh yeah, I can see people getting upset if they're going to list the names. Actually, I can even imagine people getting upset about their God/Goddess/Something not being included in the list. So, let's just say it won't be the smartest road to take for the filmmakers.
And, you know, even during my days as a Pagan I knew that the Chronicles had a huge base in Christianity. I could certainly not see Odhinn or Ra (just to name two of the deities I prayed to back then) in the depiction of Aslan! Imagine the filmmakers rattling off a list of other names for Aslan of which these two deities would be a part... it'd be the same idiotic idea as trying to make everyone believe that Aslan and Eustace are one and the same.
And, you know, even during my days as a Pagan I knew that the Chronicles had a huge base in Christianity. I could certainly not see Odhinn or Ra (just to name two of the deities I prayed to back then) in the depiction of Aslan! Imagine the filmmakers rattling off a list of other names for Aslan of which these two deities would be a part... it'd be the same idiotic idea as trying to make everyone believe that Aslan and Eustace are one and the same.
Elentari
New member
I was just reading my last post and the others following it (Inky and Solya)...On a mostly related level, I was reading about C.S. Lewis the other night and I came across this quote that was interesting:
I mention this to "edit" my wording of my last post that Narnia was "allegory". I wasn't sure what term to use and I was not aware that the term "suppositional" existed, in literary terminology. As this was how Lewis viewed his books, this is now how I view them as well...Which ironically, is how I viewed them BEFORE, I just now know the word for it!!! I always was a bit annoyed with readers who dwelt, as I felt, too much on the "allegory" so to speak and lost perspective on the STORY. As I've mentioned to my husband frequently--he uses LWW in his middle school English class--in all the Chronicles, LWW has the strongest DIRECT links to the Bible--the particular stories, if you will. None of the others, including Last Battle, though it does have some "end of the world" connections, have direct correlations, at least ones as strong as Aslan's death and resurrection. I much prefer Lewis' description of supposing similar events occurred in a parallel world. Therefore, the other books/movies can have THEMES--like redemption, which seems to be a recurring one in different forms though it makes complete sense since that would be Aslan's mission, like the mission of Jesus in this world--but these themes may not appear in specific scenes that can draw direct comparison to the Bible.
Just some thoughts.
Post script--I agree with you both, btw, that the possibility of being specific is unlikely, though there MAY be a general statement, though I continue to hope for a direct book quote.
I mention this to "edit" my wording of my last post that Narnia was "allegory". I wasn't sure what term to use and I was not aware that the term "suppositional" existed, in literary terminology. As this was how Lewis viewed his books, this is now how I view them as well...Which ironically, is how I viewed them BEFORE, I just now know the word for it!!!
I always was a bit annoyed with readers who dwelt, as I felt, too much on the "allegory" so to speak and lost perspective on the STORY. As I've mentioned to my husband frequently--he uses LWW in his middle school English class--in all the Chronicles, LWW has the strongest DIRECT links to the Bible--the particular stories, if you will. None of the others, including Last Battle, though it does have some "end of the world" connections, have direct correlations, at least ones as strong as Aslan's death and resurrection. I much prefer Lewis' description of supposing similar events occurred in a parallel world. Therefore, the other books/movies can have THEMES--like redemption, which seems to be a recurring one in different forms though it makes complete sense since that would be Aslan's mission, like the mission of Jesus in this world--but these themes may not appear in specific scenes that can draw direct comparison to the Bible.Just some thoughts.
Post script--I agree with you both, btw, that the possibility of being specific is unlikely, though there MAY be a general statement, though I continue to hope for a direct book quote.
I just finished reading VDT this morning again -- and the ending seriously brings tears to my eyes. Aslan says the kids have to get to know him in their world, where he is called by another name, so that is really not too "religious" at all. And because PC film did not have any particularly Christian themes, and VDT is not explicit (as Elentari points out, LWW is the most explicitly CHristian): I don't think the directors need to change this line at all. If they leave it as Aslan saying he has another name in our world, whatever your religious persuasion, you can assume to know the other name, whatever it is.
So I don't think there is any reason to mess with the exact wording here. There's the business of his being a Lamb and a Lion, but they can leave that alone: Christians will understand and approve, and non-Christians won't feel pressured at all because they won't even get the connection.
That's my thought.
So I don't think there is any reason to mess with the exact wording here. There's the business of his being a Lamb and a Lion, but they can leave that alone: Christians will understand and approve, and non-Christians won't feel pressured at all because they won't even get the connection.
That's my thought.
NarnianofGryffindor
Active member
The way that the movies are going, I would highly DOUBT that that would happen.
Critics have already been saying, Prince Caspian was TOO religious. I think the filmmakers are taking religion a step further in the movies.
Here's some articles on Prince Caspian and religion.
http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/postmodernism-and-prince-caspian/
http://www.alternet.org/movies/85742/ (the reviewer talks more about the religious aspects on the second page)
I'm sure you can find others.
I'm going to trust the filmmakers and trust they don't botch this one. They haven't messed up the other two...
And if they do mess it up, I'm not going to get bent out of shape and go ranting all over the corners of the globe talking about how much I hate the movie and ranting on how much they changed it...
Good luck with that. You're going to need it.