~Lava~
Well-known member
They nailed the casting but they did Peter dirty in Prince Caspian
Narnia movie already doomed for failure? Aslan to be female???
- Thread starter wonderings
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Sven-El
Well-known member
-Although, between you me, and the digital wall, what they are even thinking about doing with Aslan makes Peter of the Walden/Disney Prince Caspian look like Steve Rogers/Captain America in the MCU in comparison.
~Lava~
Well-known member
that is quite true
wonderings
Member
I don't think they nailed the characters, at least the majority. Eustace was perfectly cast in my opinion and the only memorable once. I personally am not waiting for a movie as I know the movie will never touch the books. It is a lazy way to enjoy the story but it is not fulfilling at all. Like eating a rice wafer when you are hungry. It will give you something but will never fully satisfy. In this day and age of immediacy, stop, take a breath and read a book. It is a thanksgiving dinner with all the fixings and some you never even imagined.
It sure seems like they are intentionally making bad movies because they view "the message" as being more important. I have asked this question over and over again, why are they making movies they know will flop? All I can think of is a bunch of already insanely wealthy people are pushing this narrative and the book keepers are just incredibly slow or not loud enough to drown out the voices pushing the identity politics. How many movies were predicted to be flops simply by the fans on YouTube based on their thumbs down vote of a trailer and were flops? I would say all of them. I can't think of one that was mass predicted by the fans to be. a failures and then was a huge success. The studios do not think they are creating flops, they really think they are creating what their echo chamber wants. And then when they do fail, the fans are bashed for being sexist, racist, and a whole host of other nasty things. Hollywood is a degenerate corrupt machine and you can't expect real positives to come out of that. Again thankfully the books are unchanging and where the real beauty is.
~Lava~
Well-known member
I was very much so hoping it was one but alasI appreciate your starting this thread, Spectre!
This is like an April Fool joke that has morphed into a nightmare
Sven-El
Well-known member
Forget a nightmare....it feels like the franchise is sailing through the Dark Island of Voyage of the Dawn Treader, and the captain has decided it's a good idea to ram the ship into the iceberg from Titanic. And instead of a string quartet playing the hymn "Nearer My God To Thee" we have to listen to Taylor Swift's "Shake it Off"I appreciate your starting this thread, Spectre!
This is like an April Fool joke that has morphed into a nightmare
I was very much so hoping it was one but alas
~Lava~
Well-known member
That is an amazing analogy. I can picture it
One example of the studios listening to fans: Sonic the Hedgehog.
They had to re-design the character (and not just Sonic, but any other character that looked like him), and then re-animate and re-render all of the shots they had already finished. And they did it, and now they're starting on Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
As far as Rings of Power, I hadn't heard the consultant was fired, but I will say, that project is a hard one for me to say anything bad about yet. First, I haven't watched it all yet, but I plan to, just haven't had time yet to watch season 2. Second, they are between a rock and a hardplace with that, and it is not their fault. They wanted to create a series based on Tolkien's writing. They had acquired the rights to The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. No other rights were available because of the Tolkien Estate. They decided a compelling part of the story would be to tell the story of the creation of the Rings of Power, and Sauron's rise to power. They could use stuff that was referenced in The Lord of the Rings and Hobbit books. They could NOT use anything in The Silmarillion. So, as they are writing their 50 hour show, they have to be sure that they do NOT even accidentally write anything that is too similar to anything on the pages of The Silmarillion. If they do, they are violating the fact that they don't have rights to that book (or any of the other published works by Tolkien). So fans who have read those books will inevitably be disappointed because it doesn't follow those. And we blame the producers and writers of this show, when the true source of blame lies with the Tolkien Estate. If they had given them the rights to the whole of Tolkien's writings, they could have jumped into it and done the adaptation that you can tell they wanted to do.
wonderings
Member
Tolkien Foundation aside, the studio knew what they were buying and they did it. I won't accept crap story telling and blame it on someone else because they chose to put out garbage. The estate does not owe Amazon or any other studio the rights to anything, they chose what to sell for whatever reason and are laughing all the way to the bank whileTolkien himself would be furious with what Amazon did and that is not just my personal view. Tolkien was very clear and succinct:
“The canons of narrative in any medium cannot be wholly different; and the failure of poor films is often precisely in exaggeration, and in the intrusion of unwarranted matter owing to not perceiving where the core of the original lies.”
Amazon has played identity politics and changed characters, the geography and the history of Middle Earth. This in my mind would be having a new movie for The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe (Have to get some Narnia in here somehow!) and instead of Peter being the High King and eldest and leader of the 4 you would have Susan who girl bossed it up, was High Queen who her brothers and sister followed and obeyed, meek as they were looking for her to save them with her bow and horn that did not bring help but simply struck fear into the heart of her many and vast enemies. Amazon wanted to make a big show for something they basically did not have the rights to. They have Gandalf, or as he is labeled by a critic I really enjoy "Not-Gandalf". They have no rights to Gandalf so they make some horrible origin story for him and don't name him to get around it. I personally will not put myself through garbage simply because it bares some fleeting resemblance of something I love. The same goes with Narnia, my love is for the books, no movie will ever compare and while I can enjoy a good adaptation as long as it is true to the original content.
tirian_son_of_erlian
Active member
Yeah I am not looking forward to any future film adaptations of Narnia films for the foreseeable future. It's truly depressing seeing how the movie industry tirelessly works to destroy the worlds and works of great minds like C.S. Lewis.
Give it about another 10 years, and not only will there be a The Last Battle movie that mentions Tashlan, but the filmmakers will have decided that Aslan does indeed need to be Tashlan. That instead of the real lion showing up at the end, the real walking bird of prey will show up at the end, and all the true Narnians will hail this demon as the real Aslan.
And then the crowds on social media will praise this (and hundreds of other) necessary changes. And they will say the church needed to get with the times anyway and they will serve not fish and chips, but Turkish Delight in theaters everywhere. And they will say Rishda Tarkaan and Jill Pole had a passionate relationship all along. And they will say that Shift and Ginger were bullied and misunderstood and the real Tashlan welcomed them with open arms. And the closing scene will be all the Calormenes and maybe a few other Narnians finally entering the real Narnia, where they all see Susan Pevensie has been waiting for them all along, but they see her in a different and more beautiful form, and they bow down before her for all eternity.
Give it about another 10 years, and not only will there be a The Last Battle movie that mentions Tashlan, but the filmmakers will have decided that Aslan does indeed need to be Tashlan. That instead of the real lion showing up at the end, the real walking bird of prey will show up at the end, and all the true Narnians will hail this demon as the real Aslan.
And then the crowds on social media will praise this (and hundreds of other) necessary changes. And they will say the church needed to get with the times anyway and they will serve not fish and chips, but Turkish Delight in theaters everywhere. And they will say Rishda Tarkaan and Jill Pole had a passionate relationship all along. And they will say that Shift and Ginger were bullied and misunderstood and the real Tashlan welcomed them with open arms. And the closing scene will be all the Calormenes and maybe a few other Narnians finally entering the real Narnia, where they all see Susan Pevensie has been waiting for them all along, but they see her in a different and more beautiful form, and they bow down before her for all eternity.
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wonderings
Member
My views of movies have changed so much in the last 5 years or so. I am not and would not be excited for any film adaptation for a story I love. Books are just so much better, movies are limited and prone to ruining what makes the books so great in the first place. I am still expecting Meryl Streep to be the voice. Still would love to be proven wrong but something is telling me she will take on the part. And if they are indeed going to be doing the whole series this is not just one movie with Aslan portrayed this way, this is constant throughout the series.
Sven-El
Well-known member
As Rings of Power has been brought up in this thread this article seems appropriate to the conversation.
www.theonering.com
This has to be kept in mind when it comes to Narnia. Not only has Disney's live action snow white failed at the box office, and as a result Disney has quietly postponed live action remakes of their animated films but if Rings of Power hasn't been renewed. Fact is the fans weren't showing up, and that means a lot in the long run. Not only that, if Amazon is wondering if they can broaden their scope for RoP to non Lord of the Rings fans they're sadly mistaken. Negative reviews of season two could tell non fans to stay away.
Fact of the matter is, if Rings of Power, based on Lord of the Rings, which I would venture to guess probably has a bigger fan basis then Narnia is struggling around season 2, I can't imagine it going any better for Narnia if Gerwig does something so drastic with the source material.
Thus, even if they Gerwig butchers Aslan at the alter of the agenda, while she may be a big name, if fans don't watch, Netflix will be forced to cancel. They could get a second film and honor the terms of Gerwig's contract, but that would be it, and the franchise could go back on ice.
Amazon Quietly Tests 'Rings of Power' on Other Streaming Platforms as Season 3 Hangs in the Balance
Is this just Amazon's way of testing if The Rings of Power has a bigger audience that the dying one on Prime Video?
www.theonering.com
This has to be kept in mind when it comes to Narnia. Not only has Disney's live action snow white failed at the box office, and as a result Disney has quietly postponed live action remakes of their animated films but if Rings of Power hasn't been renewed. Fact is the fans weren't showing up, and that means a lot in the long run. Not only that, if Amazon is wondering if they can broaden their scope for RoP to non Lord of the Rings fans they're sadly mistaken. Negative reviews of season two could tell non fans to stay away.
Fact of the matter is, if Rings of Power, based on Lord of the Rings, which I would venture to guess probably has a bigger fan basis then Narnia is struggling around season 2, I can't imagine it going any better for Narnia if Gerwig does something so drastic with the source material.
Thus, even if they Gerwig butchers Aslan at the alter of the agenda, while she may be a big name, if fans don't watch, Netflix will be forced to cancel. They could get a second film and honor the terms of Gerwig's contract, but that would be it, and the franchise could go back on ice.
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tirian_son_of_erlian
Active member
I do also suspect sabotage is the direction they're heading.
One possible glimmer of hope though is the idea that sometimes the rumors could actually be "feelers" these companies themselves began circulating. For example in this case with Netflix and the Narnia reboot, the idea is that they want to make radical changes (female Aslan voice), so before even officially casting Meryl Streep they first circulate these rumors as a way of sort of polling audiences across the Internet to gauge the extent and frequency of disapproval beforehand.
Although I don't have proof (and I'm not sure how I would prove it), I do suspect that this kind of thing has happened before. For example, when the Star Wars Saga was rebooted (if rebooted was the right word) with The Force Awakens, there was a pretty widespread and controversial rumor that the opening scene of Episode VII (immediately following the Opening Crawl) would show a severed hand (Luke Skywalker's), grasping a lightsaber (the one lost in The Empire Strikes Back), jointly descending through space and onto a planet. I breathed a sigh of relief when it was instead tilt down to a planet that became engulfed with the iconic shadow of a Star Destroyer. Yet I think they were seriously considering the alternative opening had it received enough approval. At any rate that trilogy only got worse as they continually did whatever they wanted rewriting the Star Wars universe. For Narnia though I'd of course consider it such an exceedingly more egregious offense to manipulate the portrayal of the main character.
One possible glimmer of hope though is the idea that sometimes the rumors could actually be "feelers" these companies themselves began circulating. For example in this case with Netflix and the Narnia reboot, the idea is that they want to make radical changes (female Aslan voice), so before even officially casting Meryl Streep they first circulate these rumors as a way of sort of polling audiences across the Internet to gauge the extent and frequency of disapproval beforehand.
Although I don't have proof (and I'm not sure how I would prove it), I do suspect that this kind of thing has happened before. For example, when the Star Wars Saga was rebooted (if rebooted was the right word) with The Force Awakens, there was a pretty widespread and controversial rumor that the opening scene of Episode VII (immediately following the Opening Crawl) would show a severed hand (Luke Skywalker's), grasping a lightsaber (the one lost in The Empire Strikes Back), jointly descending through space and onto a planet. I breathed a sigh of relief when it was instead tilt down to a planet that became engulfed with the iconic shadow of a Star Destroyer. Yet I think they were seriously considering the alternative opening had it received enough approval. At any rate that trilogy only got worse as they continually did whatever they wanted rewriting the Star Wars universe. For Narnia though I'd of course consider it such an exceedingly more egregious offense to manipulate the portrayal of the main character.
Sven-El
Well-known member
Or, as I said earlier in this thread, the infamous Arwen at Helms Deep rumors that surfaced surrounding The Two Towers. It's notable there were even rumors at that time that the movie would receive a new title to avoid offending American sensibilities as it would have been released a full year after the 9-11 Attacks had leveled the "Two Towers" of the World Trade Center. Neither happened, and it is speculated that it was due in part to fan response.
Sven-El
Well-known member
That said, I don't know about the rest of you, but frankly with all the news with the movie, both true and false I find myself in a strange place as far as anticipation. I'm not angry. I'm not worried. I'm not excited. I'm just...
Meh.
Like I wish I was angry and upset about the Streep rumors...I've certainly done my part and supported a petition started y a dominant Narnia YouTuber, but I don't know. I guess I'm feeling kind of like Charlie Brown at the start of a Charlie Brown Christmas. Just meh.
And I'm sure that if my feeling persists, and other long time fans are either "meh", or "angry", and general audience members really don't care, then frankly that's not a state of mind Netflix want them to be in, and they are in for a world of disappointment.
Meh.
Like I wish I was angry and upset about the Streep rumors...I've certainly done my part and supported a petition started y a dominant Narnia YouTuber, but I don't know. I guess I'm feeling kind of like Charlie Brown at the start of a Charlie Brown Christmas. Just meh.
And I'm sure that if my feeling persists, and other long time fans are either "meh", or "angry", and general audience members really don't care, then frankly that's not a state of mind Netflix want them to be in, and they are in for a world of disappointment.
wonderings
Member
Meh sounds about right.
I could care less how the movie does. Without a doubt it will be no where near as good as the books and will never replace the books. Also the talks of this being a "“rock and roll” reimagining" tell me right off the bat it is going to be bad. Not sure when Hollywood will learn that they can't write better then the greats like Lewis and Tolkien, among others that have had their works butchered by movie adaptations when the writers thing they can make it more interesting or suitable for a "modern" audience. I will for sure watch the movie when it is out, but have zero hope for anything of substance. Maybe a visual glimmer of the beauty in Lewises writing at most.
tirian_son_of_erlian
Active member
That's pretty much how I feel. Personally I have strong doubts I'll even see it. Much of Walden Media's Prince Caspian and The Voyage of the Dawn Treader were painful enough for me, and Netflix seems like it could be far worse. I suppose I might watch the trailer.
This is why I am so glad the Thalen family has got a head start on things by beginning, what I feel, is a highly respectable portrayal of The Magician's Nephew. In a sense they're setting the expectations higher for other productions of it. They've filmed Chapters 1 and 2 so far. It feels somewhat similar to the BBC versions with a small cast and heartfelt music. Hopefully they will release additional chapters soon. For what it is it's really well done. Each chapter is only a few minutes long. Here are the links if you haven't seen them yet. I hope you'll will watch and share your thoughts:
This is why I am so glad the Thalen family has got a head start on things by beginning, what I feel, is a highly respectable portrayal of The Magician's Nephew. In a sense they're setting the expectations higher for other productions of it. They've filmed Chapters 1 and 2 so far. It feels somewhat similar to the BBC versions with a small cast and heartfelt music. Hopefully they will release additional chapters soon. For what it is it's really well done. Each chapter is only a few minutes long. Here are the links if you haven't seen them yet. I hope you'll will watch and share your thoughts:
wonderings
Member
Definitely has amateur theatre vibes to it with the acting and casting. Skimmed through a little of the first video. Some AI use in it with this scene:
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Not sure how they will be able to handle Charn or Narnia or the Wood between the Worlds when they get to that, willing to check it out though.
Sven-El
Well-known member
You know that's the thing with fan productions .Sometimes they can get better as they go a long. For example my buddy and I were burnt out by the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Lo and behold we saw two phenomenal fan-made animated adaptions of the Thrawn Trilogy. They start a bit wonky at first but as they go on they get better with each episode.