Thread for the Fine Arts of painting, sculpture, and other interesting mediums!

I love art and paintings,esp. Impressionistic,Van Gogh,and Norman Rockwell..:pYeah,I know,strange mix,but hey...:rolleyes:
I also love some comic strips,if that counts as art...my favorites are the adorable Peanuts,and Family Circus.:D
 
Ok, so here's my post on my beloved Artemisia Gentileschi! Bare with me, please :D

The trial happened in Rome, and the year was 1612. The transcripts of the trial still survive (although, they have yet to be translated to any language from the Italian language).

Artemisia was only 17 when her tutor Agostino Tasso and his colleagues began to sexually harass her at her father’s shop. One day it escalated to rape with Agostino promising to Artemisia that he would marry her in the future. After her father, Orazio, found out about the rape, he wrote a letter to Pope Paul IV, had Agostino incarcerated and then Artemisia was forced to start in one of the most celebrated trials of her time (seriously, this was like the Kobe Bryant trial of her time!)
Though, the trial was to prove that Agostino had raped Artemisia, it was she who had to endured torture and humiliation through a series of events. To prove that she was not a virgin, and that in fact she had been raped, she had to endure public humiliation as she had to have a vaginal examination in front of a crowd that included Agostino and her father (I would describe how the examination was done back then but It would be too graphic for the forum). She was also tortured using a mechanical device called "the Sibille" in which both of her hands were bounded together with a special cord. That cord would then be tightened to different degrees cutting through the skin and bones. This device was mainly use on women during that time. If tightened too hard It had the power to cut off all fingers. This was done to Artemisia in order to ensure that she was, in fact, telling the truth when it came to her claims. During the trial, Agostino maintained his innocence and claimed that Artemisia was the one who made lewd advances towards him, and that she also wrote erotic letters to him. This was later proven to be a lie since Artemisia did not learn to write until the age of 19. The trial lasted 7 months, and during that time it was found out that Agostino had plotted to assassinate his wife while having an affair with his sister-in-law. The trial ended as soon as Orazio (Artemisia's father) found a lost painting of his that went missing before he had Orazio incarcerated for the rape of his daughter. Some think that Orazio use his daughter's rape to avenge Agostino for the missing painting. After the trial, life for Artemisia in Rome was so difficult that her dad married her off and she then went on to live in Florence to further hercareer in painting.

Ok, now on to her famous rendition of "Judith Beheading Holofernes," the subject of the Jewish heroin who beheaded the famous Assyrian general on the eve he was to engage in war with the Jewish people in the city of Bethulia. Judith had gone into his tent, seduced him, and when Holofernes fell asleep, she and her maidservant, beheaded him. The subject of Judith beheading Holofernes was very popular during the time and almost everyone from Caravaggio (whom she was a devoted follower of), and her own father painted their own take of the subject. Artemisia did so during the trial. And it is said that she painted Agostino in the role of Holofernes and herself as Judith (This is later proven with other self-portraits Artemisia did of herself) . I think it's pretty evident in the painting how she felt about her betrayal. Also, if you compare the painting to that of Caravaggio and her father's, you notice that their Judith is quite feminine. You see a Judith that is disgusted at the job that is to be done in order to save her people. In Artemisia’s version of the painting, we see a different take, that of a woman who knows what's at stake. We see that she's not even thinking about how gory the job might be. With her sleeves rolled up, she takes on a heavy sword and with the help of her servant she struggles with Holofernes until his death. For me, Artemisia managed to portrayed onto the canvas the psychological intensity of the subject , something not seen in Caravaggio's and Orazio's version.

Another painting in which Artemisia also poured her emotions into was that of "Susanna and the Elders," while most artists at the time portrayed Susanna as seductive (as if she had it coming), Artemisia's take on it is very different. It was painted around the time when she was being harassed by her father's own colleagues at his workshop. We see a version of a Suzanna humiliated and hurt, a Suzanna that clearly does not want to be approached by these elders. And again, we see a self-portrait of Artemisia as Susanna.

Note: The link of the Judith painting that I posted was Artemisia's second take on the same painting. What's different in this version is that the sword has more volume to it and it is more pronounced, we see more of an extended panorama of Holofernes in bed, and the dresses the women are wearing are different. She changed the clothes to fit the Florentine style of the period at the time. Oh and the red velvet sheet is more visible in the second version. The emotions and struggles presented in the first version is somewhat the same.

Didn't link the "Susanna and the Elders" painting because it contains some nudity. But as you know, it's nothing obscene so feel free to Google it :)
 
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Copperfox is in the hospital and will be unable to participate in this thread until he returns home.
 
Wow, thanks Tif. I had never even heard of Artemisia, and I enjoyed the story and the links. Let me check with the council of mods and see if it would be OK to link to Susanna and other art like that. I don't think anyone would really mind, but I want to be sure.

You are doing a great job here; please continue on. I know Joseph will catch up as soon as he can.
 
Just an aside ... I believe the young woman who claimed to want to do miscarriage art later said that he never really had been pregnant; she was just lying about that.

Both my step-daughters are in art school right now, and they are good artists, but they find me woefully inadequate as a critic because I do not know enough about art. They like the Mom-critic response "That's the best one you've done yet!" but would prefer a real-critic-critical response now that they are grown up.

The elder one is majoring in print-making, and she was explaining the process to me ... I wish could explain it back to you, but she is somehow carving or etching her vision in wood or laminate, and then using that to sort of stamp a layer of ink onto canvas or paper or whatever material ... but only one color/layer at a time ...

Anyway, the stuff she produced this way was just really cool looking.

Hey I'm doing print making atm! :D It's cool!
 
Printmaking is HARD! I was talking to a printmaking artist once at an art fair they had in Downtown Disney, and he telling me about the process of printmaking. Hard, is all I can say. Ink, your daughter is gifted is she's able to make art in that medium.

I'll be taking History of Prints in the fall so hopefully I'll be able to fully understand the process. It seemed a bit confusing to me when the man was telling me about it since it was his wife that did all the print making and he would go out and market her paintings.

P.S. Sad that Joseph had to go to the hospital. I'll be praying for his well being.
 
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It is a labor intensive process -- each layer (color) of paint/ink is applied separately, with time in between for that layer to fully dry before the next layer/color of ink is rolled across the block and it is pressed onto the canvas or paper or whatever medium ... I do not know how you would envision in your head what the end product would be based on having to do each color separately like that!

Grace, you should photograph some prints you've made and show us.

Tif, I also meant to say -- Artemisia's story in itself was horrible! And it did sounds as if her dad put her through it just to get his painting back... Yikes! She did very impressive art though, and for a teenager to begin with. wow.
 
Here's my third post since my release from the hospital

Material of interest about art and artists can turn up anywhere. Today, while waiting in the radiology ward between tests, I found a recent issue of a specialized health magazine called "MAMM": one which deals with subjects of cancer prevention and treatment as they affect women. The cover article was about Lelia Pissarro, a painter who is the great-granddaughter of a founding father of Impressionist art.

Two things particularly caught my attention about this article. One was that Lelia said her own cancer experience had prompted her to be more independent and self-determined in her painting style. The other, noteworthy because of what has been said here about painting and sculpture as rivals, is that Lelia says she gains inspiration _from_ sculpture. She is especially fond of the two-figure statue "The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa."
 
Glad to have you back, CF! :)

I'll get to Pissarro and Bernini (the baroque artist that made the "Ecstasy of St. Teresa) some other time tonight.

In the meantime, I found this interesting article as to why the Public seems to be more accepting of religious art rather than the godless art we have nowadays.

I haven't finished reading the article, but it is written in the style of "The Screwtape Letters" , and the fictional character writing this letter is a recent convert to Atheism advises secularist and atheists as to why religious art from the past is still popular with the masses.

The insights are quite funny, the person refers to Atheists as "the Brights" and us Christians as "the Dulls."
Of course, all of this is written in good fun and the website I found the article on is a conservative website.

The Loser Letters: The Trouble with Dull Art
 
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Tiff, thanks for your kindly response to my Inter-Varsity staffer friend who wrote to you about me while I was still in the hospital. "That other Joe" is the man who played organ and piano for my wedding to Mary in 1979, and I got to visit him on my "widowers' road trip."

The Screwtape emulation is pretty good, and I loved seeing the intentional and cynical dishonesty of Christopher Hitchens get cut to shreds. But I did have one problem with the article: about halfway through, it suggested ("whatever name") that all visions and versions of the Almighty are equally valid. The writer would not be saying this if he were the center of attraction at a human-sacrifice ritual of the ancient Aztec "faith."
 
I didn't read all the other posts, but does this include music, dance, film, and writing as art? :)

On another note, art means the world to me, in all her many manifestations. Sure, there are some I'm not so ..into. (Cubism, anyone? :eek: ) But I love how art takes something accepted (or not so accepted) and allows us to look at it in a new light. How art is the intersection of humanity and divinity, of the human seeking the Divine. How art gives expression to all our that is deepest in us-- pain, dreams, hopes, love, sorrow, anger, beauty, truth, ecstasy, etc. The soul longs for expression. Art gives it a voice, whatever the 'medium.'

:D
 
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Psssst, don't tell Dr. Umbrella that I posted ONE more time; but yes, I think things like dance (at least, SOME dance) qualify as refined art. This makes me remember a saying someone said--before it became possible to preserve dance performances on film or video: "The dancer sculpts in snow."
 
Oooooh! My kind of thread!

Tiff, wow, I'm amazed at your passion for this stuff. I, sadly, slept through most of my art history classes, although I have to blame that partially on the fact that they were always after lunch, in darkened rooms, with a professor that spoke in a low, breathy monotone that sounded like a narrator on a relaxation tape!

Not to take attention away from the current discussion, but I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the state of fine art in our present-day culture - not in terms of that which is designed to cause shock and outrage, or the ridiculous things that pass for "performance art", but just in general where a century of modernism and postmodernism has left us.

I enjoy all types of art, including much of the modern, but I have to admit I have a bitter taste in my mouth still after my experience getting a fine arts degree. My university's art program...well, I'm sure they considered it cutting-edge because of its emphasis on modern and postmodern, but in practice that very emphasis was narrow and restricting. I had to actually change my concentration from drawing to graphic design, because the drawing professors looked at my work and said, "That's not art, it's illustration." This because I was drawing realistically, using classical techniques (at least to the best of my ability, because they certainly weren't taught in class.) My life drawing professor was the only one to insist that his students learn classical drawing skills, and the other professors subtly badmouthed him for it.

Even in art history, there was a definite bias toward pretty much everything from Picasso forward, with this subtle underlying attitude that everyone before that, skilled as they were, were just laying the foundation for the "real art" breakthrough.

A friend of mine sent me a link to the ARC (Art Renewal Center), which is an organization dedicated to bringing back respect for classical techniques and insistence on true skill. They are pretty extreme in their opposition to modernism and even criticize the Impressionists, but a lot of their articles and such raise good points. Here's a link, if anyone is interested, to an example: clicky.

So anyway, I'm curious. What are your opinions on modern vs. classical art? Was the leap away from representationalism good or bad, or even inevitable given the reasons earlier laid out (the development of photography, film, etc.)?
 
I didn't read all the other posts, but does this include music, dance, film, and writing as art?

On another note, art means the world to me, in all her many manifestations. Sure, there are some I'm not so ..into. (Cubism, anyone? :eek: ) But I love how art takes something accepted (or not so accepted) and allows us to look at it in a new light. How art is the intersection of humanity and divinity, of the human seeking the Divine. How art gives expression to all our that is deepest in us-- pain, dreams, hopes, love, sorrow, anger, beauty, truth, ectasy, etc. The soul longs for expression. Art gives it a voice, whatever the 'medium.'

:D

*tear* A fellow Neo-platonist :D

Tiff, thanks for your kindly response to my Inter-Varsity staffer friend who wrote to you about me while I was still in the hospital. "That other Joe" is the man who played organ and piano for my wedding to Mary in 1979, and I got to visit him on my "widowers' road trip."
I was quite honored and surprised that you would have him reach out to me. I wished I would've checked my e-mail this morning before going to work! I was going to forward you my response, but I didn't have your e-mail and I figured he would give you my message. :)

The Screwtape emulation is pretty good, and I loved seeing the intentional and cynical dishonesty of Christopher Hitchens get cut to shreds. But I did have one problem with the article: about halfway through, it suggested ("whatever name") that all visions and versions of the Almighty are equally valid. The writer would not be saying this if he were the center of attraction at a human-sacrifice ritual of the ancient Aztec "faith."

My Non-Western professor would always tried to justify the sacrifices by saying that as long as mankind..no wait... "humankind" (mankind would generalize the population as being male) existed sacrifices of this sort have always existed, only that the world is so fixated in portraying the Aztecs as mindless animals (she was Mexican by the way)

My favorite part of the article was:

And never mind, or try to anyway, the question of what explicitly atheist music and art and literature actually look like — I mean, it’s not as if Futurism and Constructivism and Abstract Expressionism and Performance Art never existed!! BTW, we’d be much better off if they hadn’t. (New idea: after We get done burning David Berlinski’s book against You, can We burn some of that atheist art, too? It sure might help Us on the convert front!
 
Even in art history, there was a definite bias toward pretty much everything from Picasso forward, with this subtle underlying attitude that everyone before that, skilled as they were, were just laying the foundation for the "real art" breakthrough.
Thankfully, I only have three art history professors at my university one of them a Marxist, and two professing catholics so I don't feel that bias towards the modern. It's actually my Marxist professor who always has to emphasize and defend the "importance" of modern art. While one of the other two professors I have, while taking History of Western Art II liked to always started his semester lectures teaching us about late 19th Century and 20th Century art and then go back from Renaissance to Baroque and so on...all of this so that we could see where modern art screwed up lol


So anyway, I'm curious. What are your opinions on modern vs. classical art? Was the leap away from representationalism good or bad, or even inevitable given the reasons earlier laid out (the development of photography, film, etc.)?
For me, the leap away from representational art backfires on the artist because people want to see something they are familiar with. Why do you think places like Greece and Rome are plagued with tourists every year. Every time when a movement does away with form there's always a movement that follows after that that seeks to reconstruct what has been deformed. We see this with Impressionism (which somehow, through the study of how light hits the surface ended up blurring the lines between figure and form) and Post-impresionism (which sought to put back together what Impressionism had de-constructed), to Modernism (Abstract expressionism, anyone?) and Post-Modernism (which looked to the past to reclaim what modernism had done away with representation in art).

I will always give Impressionism the benefit of the doubt. Impressionism came at a time when the tube was invented making paint in a tube available giving artists the liberty of taking their canvases outside allowing them to paint en plein air]. Before that, artists would have had to make and mix their own paint out of colored dirt in their studios.
 
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Sunrise, Tiff, I'm _trying_ not to try dear sweet Umbrella's patience, but I can't go to sleep without _another_ comment. Which is that the excessive resistance to representational images is even visible in animated cartoons. Turn on cable TV's Cartoon Network, and almost every program is done in a style of extreme caricature, which often is also extremely ugly. Not cute, not quirky, and certainly not "edgy," whatever the deuce that means. Just plain UGLY.
 
Sunrise, Tiff, I'm _trying_ not to try dear sweet Umbrella's patience, but I can't go to sleep without _another_ comment. Which is that the excessive resistance to representational images is even visible in animated cartoons. Turn on cable TV's Cartoon Network, and almost every program is done in a style of extreme caricature, which often is also extremely ugly. Not cute, not quirky, and certainly not "edgy," whatever the deuce that means. Just plain UGLY.

Same here. I sometimes find myself disturbed with some of the representations I see on the Cartoon Network.

Anyways, Mr. Ravitts, Better get your rest! Don't want to get scared again like I did this morning!
 
I could be wrong on this, but I think the current animation style is heavily influenced by the use of flash animation, which is the prevailing form used online.

It is fast, cheap, and easy to do, as it is almost entirely done on computer, thus negating the need for long drawn-out processes of inking and painting cells. You can see why the makers of television cartoons would be drawn to it. Compare it to, say, the old Looney Tunes shorts and it is dismal, but remember that those old shorts were originally made for theater and took much longer.

The history of animation is something I really get into. :p
 
I love Art. I seem to be into modern, surreal art, like the works of Banksy and Andrew 'Android' Jones. I also like some Pop Art. But I'm an absolute sucker for 'traditional' painted portraits, because I love drawing people myself.
 
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