Update On The Next Film

PotW, you are right about the pronblem with Lewis' writings. They were not planned for a series. Jadis somehow made claim from the Dep Law from the Dawn of Time that stated that traitors were hers to kill. Later, he wrote about a diferent history for jadis as being from Charn. One can try to speculate how these two match up, but they are fairly disparate histories for Jadis.

"When Digory told Aslan what she had done he confirmed it by saying that she will live like a goddess and have endless days but days of misery. The apple cured Digorys mother but did not make her immortal as Aslan said it would not work in our world."

But you are saying here Jadis that Aslan can't kill. Also, it didn't matter that the apple couldn't give his mother long life, it was meant to heal her. But if the apple had been brought to her wrongly, it still would have worked in that way, to bring misery instead of pleasure.

"The apple trees likley died along with the tree of protection so nobody else could have eat'n them"

The Tree in the garden was in a special place. I doubt anything died in there. The tree of Protection was what Digory planted. It didn't die either, at least not until the end. The only apple tree that was said to die was the one planted in England.

MrBob
 
MrBob said:
she had done he confirmed it by saying that she will live like a goddess and have endless days but days of misery. The apple cured Digorys mother but did not make her immortal as Aslan said it would not work in our world."

But you are saying here Jadis that Aslan can't kill. Also, it didn't matter that the apple couldn't give his mother long life, it was meant to heal her. But if the apple had been brought to her wrongly, it still would have worked in that way, to bring misery instead of pleasure.

"The apple trees likley died along with the tree of protection so nobody else could have eat'n them"

The Tree in the garden was in a special place. I doubt anything died in there. The tree of Protection was what Digory planted. It didn't die either, at least not until the end. The only apple tree that was said to die was the one planted in England. MrBob
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Two points. Firstly, Aslan most certainly can kill, if the need arises, although He will only do so as a last resort. Indeed, He was the only one who could kill the White Witch. Having said that, our local theatre did a live version of LWW a few years ago in which the ending was altered so that although Aslan returned in the nick of time, it was actually Peter who slew Jadis with his sword.
Secondly, surely the tree of protection (the one planted by Digory in Narnia not the one in the garden) must have died or been destroyed, otherwise Jadis would never have been able to return to Narnia, let alone rule the land as queen, for 100 years? This raises another interesting question. Knowing what Digory intended to do with the apple, why didn't Jadis simply kill him and Polly, thereby preventing the planting of the tree in Narnia? I'm certain she was evil enough to have done so!
 
This discussion is getting a bit off anything to do with the films, but that's all right.

I think the implication is clear that ultimately the Tree of Protection in Narnia died or was destroyed, which opened the way for Jadis to come and conquer the land.

However, don't assume that Jadis knew what Digory intended to do with the Apple, or even that she understood the implications of what she'd done by stealing one for herself. It may not have been until much later that she realized that one of the consequences of her having illicitly eaten the Apple would be her being repulsed by them thereafter.

Come to think of it, that would make an interesting short fanfic story - Jadis approaching Narnia with sinister intent, only to be repulsed by the proximity of the Tree.
 
She didn't know - she was only speculating. Notice that when she's needling Digory about doing Aslan's bidding, she taunts him that he's only taking the apple back to Aslan "...for him to eat, for him to use." Aslan wasn't intending to eat it or use it for Himself, but to give it to Narnia. She doesn't know that Aslan doesn't need to eat anything to become immortal - she interprets his actions through her assumptions. Being finite, but ambitious, she'd look for every advantage over opposition. She can't comprehend infinity, much less infinite love.
 
Aslan was not immortal in Narnia as he was killed on the stone table but came back due to his knowlage of the deep magic, a magic before time as Jadis' only knew of it from the dawn of time.:)
 
First where in the books dose it say Aslan killed apart from LWW which in is debatable, he never killed he had others to do that for him.
 
I'm not sure why you're asking those questions - my point wasn't about Aslan killing anyone. My point was that Jadis didn't know why Aslan wanted the Apple, and didn't yet know that the fact that she'd eaten an illicitly obtained apple would make the rest of them repugnant to her.

In other words, Jadis didn't know everything. She wasn't omniscient; she could be surprised and, in her ignorance, make terrible mistakes.
 
Aslan knows all about Jadis her life on Charn, he knows every move she makes and knows that she is evil the only evil to enter his Narnia.
 
True but that's why Jadis did not want Digory to take the apple to Aslan as she did not want him to become immortal in Narnia also.
 
Jadis did not want to stay in Narnia she wanted to leave and tried twice to get out but failed so why did Aslan who knew all about her not let her leave? :)
 
Whoa, here - Aslan is the Son of the Emperor-over-Sea. He is, by nature, immortal. He needs no apple to grant Him immortality. If Jadis thought He did, which isn't certain, then she was mistaken.

And Jadis was the first evil to enter Narnia, but by no means the last. Another example would be the pirates who became the forefathers of the Telmarines, and the Calormenes. Another, arguably, would be King Frank and Queen Helen themselves - summoned by Him. Being a Son of Adam and a Daughter of Eve, they were both capable of tremendous evil and rebellion. Yet they were enthroned as the first King and Queen of Narnia, because they were also capable of great good.

Jadis did leave Narnia (the country), and ultimately was effectively banned from Narnia by the presence of the Tree of Protection. It's speculation as to why Aslan caused her to be trapped in the Narnian universe - many reasons, to be sure. One of them may have been to prevent her from doing harm elsewhere.
 
Aslan in Narnia was mortal as he was killed on the stone table but he knew a bit more of the deep magic than Jadis and that's what brought him back, beging the son of the emperor he would know of it before the dawn of time ie before Lilith and Jadis only knew of it after Lilith. :)
 
True Aslan knew Jadis knew the D.Word and did not want her going to other worlds and having them destoryed by her as she did with Charn. Jadis was not intersted in what Aslan did with the apple she wanted Digory and his ring so she could leave and tried to tempt him into doing so but failed.
 
The Telmarines and the Calormenes brought their evil with them which is the same as Jadis' corruption, greed, lust for power and the persecution of the Narnians. :)
 
Jadis-the-White said:
True Aslan knew Jadis knew the D.Word and did not want her going to other worlds and having them destoryed by her as she did with Charn. Jadis was not intersted in what Aslan did with the apple she wanted Digory and his ring so she could leave and tried to tempt him into doing so but failed.
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Was there not a risk that Jadis might use the Deplorable Word in Narnia?
 
The Deplorable Word would not have worked in other worlds. Even lesser magic, such as Jadis' ability to "blast" the gates of Charn, didn't work in London. Had she been able to use the Deplorable Word in Narnia, she certainly would have done so when Aslan was creating the world, instead of just chucking an iron bar at Him (which was the only avenue she had left to her, and even then it didn't work.)

Jadis, again we're up against your irregular definition of "immortal". You're defining it as "cannot experience death in any manner". This is not how writers such as Lewis and Tolkien used the term. They used it to mean "not subject to aging and natural death", but that did allow for death from violence or accident.

This is why you make the error of saying that Aslan was mortal - since He died on the Stone Table, you offer that as prima facie evidence that He wasn't immortal. Yet in fact He was immortal - He was the Creator of Narnia and saw neither decay nor death until the Stone Table, and then He only died because He submitted to violence. But the Deeper Magic brought Him back from death, so it can be said that He was dead but is now alive.

This same confusion is causing your misunderstanding of Jadis' situation. Aslan said that the Apple conferred immortality, which is not something Jadis had had before. But it conferred immortality as Lewis meant it, which I've defined above. She could still be killed by an active agent, which is what Aslan did at the Battle of Beruna.
 
Wow, POTW, you're posts are very thorough - very interesting. :D

Can I step in and say to Jadis-the-White: You can edit your posts so that if you have more to say a few minutes after what you last said, you can combine it into the one post and it looks neater. The 'Edit' button is on the bottom right of your post. :)
 
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