The Series is threatened.
- Thread starter Caspian'sQueen
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Knight of Narnia
New member
*Sighs* I was listening to some of the old NarniaWeb podcasts the other day and I was surprised to hear that the details of the "bad parts" of Prince Caspian had been leaked out months in advance (the podcast was recorded in March I think). The host was discussing things such as the romance btw Susan and Caspian and the night raid. While the producers were not going to take out a 20-minute battle, the Susan/Caspian thing could have EASILY been edited out and made fans (that's most of us) somewhat happier with the film. They completely ignored our protests and their film failed to make budget here in the U.S. due at least in part to the lack of faith from their main fanbase.
Lucy Fan
New member
I didn't realize during the second week in the US PC did really bad. I hope they still continue to make all the movies, despite what has happened.
________
Lovely Wendie
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Lovely Wendie
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Copperfox
Well-known member
More accurately, I hope that Walden RESUMES filming movies of Narnian books, since Walden HAS NOT filmed a movie of a Narnian book since they filmed "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe." What they filmed under the title of "Prince Caspian" was more like a G-rated version of "Dawson's Creek" with some gryphons and minotaurs hanging around.
Elendil
New member
*sigh*
*pats on back*
It's not fair is it?
I liked the movie...as a movie...but I hated what they did to the books.
....does anyone know if the 'leaked votd scripty thing' is true?
Copperfox
Well-known member
I tried to think of a new illustration. The supposedly great novel (and movie) "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller was a calculated slander of the United States and its entire armed forces, trying all-out to convince the reader that America's military during World War Two consisted of NOTHING BUT useless idiots and scoundrels, that there WAS NO honorable cause we were fighting for, and that the supreme pinnacle of wisdom for an American servicemember to achieve was deserting. Well, perhaps the only way Walden could have committed any GREATER insult to the Narnian spirit would have been if Joseph Heller could have written the screenplay.
I hope that Walden never turns its attention to producing hospital dramas for television. If they do, we can look forward to seeing two surgeons, right in the middle of an operation, forget the patient on the table while they get into a fistfight over who's the better surgeon.
I hope that Walden never turns its attention to producing hospital dramas for television. If they do, we can look forward to seeing two surgeons, right in the middle of an operation, forget the patient on the table while they get into a fistfight over who's the better surgeon.
Copperfox
Well-known member
Over-reacting? No, not even slightly, my good young friend.
William Shakespeare dressed his actors in 16th-century doublets and tights even if they were portraying men who had lived 2,000 years earlier than that; but the external costuming was a matter of convenience. He still tried to convey in his writing something like the feelings and personalities of persons who lived in those past eras. Walden did the reverse: they had the characters wear clothes like people of the Narnian world, but on the inside they (above all Peter and Caspian of course) were nothing other than 21st-century teenagers, and not even the best examples of 21st-century teenagers. I would infinitely rather have seen the cast wearing T-shirts and blue jeans, driving cars, communicating with cellphones and fighting with guns...if only their INNER PERSONALITIES would have been kept somewhere within a million miles of what Mr. Lewis wrote.
William Shakespeare dressed his actors in 16th-century doublets and tights even if they were portraying men who had lived 2,000 years earlier than that; but the external costuming was a matter of convenience. He still tried to convey in his writing something like the feelings and personalities of persons who lived in those past eras. Walden did the reverse: they had the characters wear clothes like people of the Narnian world, but on the inside they (above all Peter and Caspian of course) were nothing other than 21st-century teenagers, and not even the best examples of 21st-century teenagers. I would infinitely rather have seen the cast wearing T-shirts and blue jeans, driving cars, communicating with cellphones and fighting with guns...if only their INNER PERSONALITIES would have been kept somewhere within a million miles of what Mr. Lewis wrote.
*sigh*
*pats on back*
It's not fair is it?
I liked the movie...as a movie...but I hated what they did to the books.
....does anyone know if the 'leaked votd scripty thing' is true?
Yes we do. Several of us were at LionCon when the script was leaked, including all 3 major Narnia site admins. The script was read to the board over breakfast which was apart from the convention itself, and the board and staff included several moderators from the sites along with the admin. We were horrified to say the least. Disney demanded of Narniaweb that it be taken off the site (some member posted it on their own), not that Tirian needed them to tell him to take it off right away till they could get confirmation on it. They called Disney later for confirmation on it and recieved the word that it was in fact a real early script that has since been tossed out. It was NEVER supposed to be seen apart from a handful of producers and they apologized for the incident and any distress to the fans.
Even so, it doesn't inspire more trust at all. I would hope that the final script for VDT would be much better than what we read, but the liberties taken in that first leaked script are without a doubt bad enough to end the series. If there's ever a time for them to listen to the fans, it's now. If they repeat the same mistakes in PC in regards to listening to the fans, they'll be done for sure.
Yep, but that's what forums are there for. The topic will die down eventually. People just need time to vent some.
It was all leaked way early, and one of the Narniaweb guys got to visit the set as a reporter. He leaked a ton of stuff. But, Disney/Walden treated it as with any other reporter or news story. They didn't listen to the commentary that followed on all the sites. They didn't listen to the fans. I think that's what hurt the most really. Here was a franchise we wanted to help out and support...and we weren't taken seriously, allowed a voice (except at LionCon at the El Capitan), and it took 6 of us going to the premiere in New York and finally getting to talk to Mark Johnson in person and other reps to get anywhere...of course by then the movie was made. Even with LionCon, until then, the companies were basically wanting fans to take a hike.
To me there seemed to be a drastic difference though that should be highlighted....those who actually make the film and work on set....Mark, Andrew, Howard, Dean, Isis, Doug, et al....they love the fans and care...but the companies behind them...you know, the people in the offices who aren't on the sets...they don't. Those people want the money and care about the investors and bottom line only. That's it. The regular cast and crew do care that the fans exist. Even just hanging out with them in person for an evening one could tell that they are nice and wonderful people who want very much to make good films and please the fans in addition to making money.
I think the final question we all want answered is "Why"? Why weren't the fans heard? Why did they seek to make us mad on purpose with the way the film was edited? Just short of Neon blinking signs in front of the offices we couldn't have been more vocal...but they still didn't get it. None of the fans will buy the "we didn't know" sort of thing...it was an intentional choice. The fans in the rest of the world who aren't familiar with Narnia already aren't the ones who would hang in with the franchise and promote it...so I just don't get it. I think the main thing we all want to know is WHY? I've heard tons of reasons....but none remotely good enough to justify the cold shoulder the fans got.
This is one of the things that really annoys me too!!!! It's there in everything. The language they use, the way they interact, their attitude towards things! Grrrrr... I was well looking forward to a bit of 'By Jove' as well!
~Lava~
Well-known member
PC is at 301 million at the boxoffice. I did not see the leaked script and it sounds like I should be glad of that. I am wondering if the person who did it was doing so in an attempt to show Disney what the reaction to such things would be when it comes to fans. I can see a person who was disgusted with the outcome of PC and knew exactly why it happened doing something as a wake- up.
I was looking at the success of recent films in Britain and PC was doing abismally, behind Hancock and Kung Fu Panda and Mamma Mia has already got over half the amount in its opening weekend.
Copperfox
Well-known member
The following statement, no matter how often it gets re-used and no matter how well-meaning a person repeats it, is misleading in that it is not a COMPLETE explanation:
>> ...but the companies behind them...you know, the people in the offices
>> who aren't on the sets...they don't [care]. Those people want the money
>> and care about the investors and bottom line only. That's it.
Even greed for money would produce a better product than we've seen. If greed for money were the ONLY motivator in show business, then the executives would long before now have paid more attention to the well-proven FACT that movies of a high moral and spiritual quality DO turn a good profit. But Hollyswamp is full of men who DON'T want only to raise the profits, they also want to LOWER TASTES. Because in THEIR OWN lives they are cynical and corrupt (and sometimes on their fourth trophy wife by now), they DON'T LIKE being reminded of what is noble and pure. They want the moral bar to be lowered and bad behavior onscreen to be approved of, so THEY'LL feel better, whether the investors get the maximum possible profit or not. Even if the Walden executives are not themselves this degenerate, they still live in the show-business environment and are doubtless influenced by the cynics.
>> ...but the companies behind them...you know, the people in the offices
>> who aren't on the sets...they don't [care]. Those people want the money
>> and care about the investors and bottom line only. That's it.
Even greed for money would produce a better product than we've seen. If greed for money were the ONLY motivator in show business, then the executives would long before now have paid more attention to the well-proven FACT that movies of a high moral and spiritual quality DO turn a good profit. But Hollyswamp is full of men who DON'T want only to raise the profits, they also want to LOWER TASTES. Because in THEIR OWN lives they are cynical and corrupt (and sometimes on their fourth trophy wife by now), they DON'T LIKE being reminded of what is noble and pure. They want the moral bar to be lowered and bad behavior onscreen to be approved of, so THEY'LL feel better, whether the investors get the maximum possible profit or not. Even if the Walden executives are not themselves this degenerate, they still live in the show-business environment and are doubtless influenced by the cynics.
Copperfox
Well-known member
I don't claim to know how far gone the individual persons running Walden may be. Perhaps all they are is weak and shortsighted. But the PRESENCE of that corruption in show business as a whole is real: NOT just the generic, minimum, universal, we're-all-exactly-the-same sinfulness, but a premeditatedly truth-hating corruption that actively WANTS to pull down righteousness. The kind of hatred for truth which once caused Joycelyn Elders to look at a society plagued with promiscuity, infidelity, divorce and abortion--and then say with the straight face of a practiced liar that America's problem was being "too puritanical!"
I know, they sounded way too modern. A "by Jove" would've been wonderful!
Well, if we look at it moneywise its a dismal amount. The Dark Knight made over 150 mil in the first weekend. Imagine, half as much in 3 days as PC in two months!
Yo are probably right. If I didn't have God in my life and had loads of money, I would probably turn out the same type of trash that comes out of hollywood nowadays.
Knight of Narnia
New member
Walden wants to make money by attempting to appeal to a "family" audience.
By taking good stories and adapting them to the screen, Walden hopes to draw in people to go see their movies, and for the most part this has been successful for them. Prince Caspian however, was not one of these successes. There were simply too many mistakes by them and/or Disney for this movie to be successful.
They alienated a very large portion of the Narnia fanbase by making drastic changes to the story. Imagine a Harry Potter film where Harry and Ron yell back and forth at each other for the entire film. Or you could imagine a Harry Potter film where he falls in love with Hermione and they spend the entire movie flirting with one another and give no regard to the actual story. You could even imagine a scene where Harry tries to lead Dumbeldore's army into an actual battle with the evil wizards and most of them are killed and he has to run away in shame and defeat. What about Harry introducing himself as "Harry the Chosen One". All of these ideas seem pretty silly to anyone who has read the books or seen the movies, and adding them in would obviously draw the ire of fans of the books as well as the movies. As silly as these ideas seem and as much as it would have alienated the fanbase, they were in fact added into Prince Caspian (but not Harry Potter).
If it doesn't make sense for scenes that are not in the Harry Potter books to be added to the Harry Potter movies, then how can it make sense for scenes that are not in the Narnia books to added to the Narnia movies?
Secondly, they released this movie during the early part of the summer, when there were MANY big name blockbuster movies lined up to follow it. This movie would have to compete with Batman, Indiana Jones, Iron Man, Hulk, and even Disney's own movie, Wall-E. They never gave this movie the chance that it deserved. Combine a bad release date with poor marketing and its little wonder that this movie did poorly in the U.S.
By taking good stories and adapting them to the screen, Walden hopes to draw in people to go see their movies, and for the most part this has been successful for them. Prince Caspian however, was not one of these successes. There were simply too many mistakes by them and/or Disney for this movie to be successful.
They alienated a very large portion of the Narnia fanbase by making drastic changes to the story. Imagine a Harry Potter film where Harry and Ron yell back and forth at each other for the entire film. Or you could imagine a Harry Potter film where he falls in love with Hermione and they spend the entire movie flirting with one another and give no regard to the actual story. You could even imagine a scene where Harry tries to lead Dumbeldore's army into an actual battle with the evil wizards and most of them are killed and he has to run away in shame and defeat. What about Harry introducing himself as "Harry the Chosen One". All of these ideas seem pretty silly to anyone who has read the books or seen the movies, and adding them in would obviously draw the ire of fans of the books as well as the movies. As silly as these ideas seem and as much as it would have alienated the fanbase, they were in fact added into Prince Caspian (but not Harry Potter).
If it doesn't make sense for scenes that are not in the Harry Potter books to be added to the Harry Potter movies, then how can it make sense for scenes that are not in the Narnia books to added to the Narnia movies?
Secondly, they released this movie during the early part of the summer, when there were MANY big name blockbuster movies lined up to follow it. This movie would have to compete with Batman, Indiana Jones, Iron Man, Hulk, and even Disney's own movie, Wall-E. They never gave this movie the chance that it deserved. Combine a bad release date with poor marketing and its little wonder that this movie did poorly in the U.S.
Darth Sparhawk
New member
For me this is the crucial part. Still, internationally it is OK with 230 $ mln. and I hope for more Narnia movies.
Me too Grace, me too! I hope it will. I want to have faith that it will. I want it to be great and I want it to succeed...but mostly I want it to stick to the books. Apart from that they're wasting their time and money....and ours.