That will be the ruin of if for sure. No true fan will go see it. I know I won't, at least not more than once. Non-fans really could care less about Narnia. Look at what happened to PC. So far from the book, so little success!
The Series is threatened.
- Thread starter Caspian'sQueen
- Start date
That will be the ruin of if for sure. No true fan will go see it. I know I won't, at least not more than once. Non-fans really could care less about Narnia. Look at what happened to PC. So far from the book, so little success!
Jane-Guard of the Volturi
New member
Key term there was "good movie," my friend. ^_^ And I find it hard to believe that our fans won't see it just because it doesn't stick exactly to the book. Sure, we might be disappointed, but I'm still seeing it, if it looks like a good movie.
uniquemonke
New member
i loved the second movie! i liked it even more then the first one, i saw it twice!
Well, "good movie" is a matter of opinion. What's good for some it's not for others. You could say that horror movies are "good movies." I detest them all.
I remember seen PC the last time at El Capitan Theater in Hollywood with many other fans. Many booed at the changes, and very loud at the "kiss." So no, it's not hard to believe that fans will not support it when the changes not only contradict the book but makes a joke out of the characters.
But all of that was already discussed and re-discussed in these threads. The majority of fans did not like it!
Truman
Banned
I walked into the theater hoping they changed PC in the movie, because I finished reading the book and MAN! I thought it dragged so badly. I especially hoped they would cut the time spent travelling through the forest to get to the How; they did (YES!). All kinds of other things... I'm just glad they made the movie what it is.
Sometimes books need to be changed. They should make "The Scarlet Letter" into another movie. Yeah, they've made like 9 scarlet letters before, but I read the book. Talk about boredem! The emotions of the people play a big part. They could really make a good one if they expound on the music (has to be a good score, or it'll fall flat). The camera angles have to have a certain way of treating the characters on screen. The color tint, the acting, even the lines! Sure, change the book a bit, but a movie isn't going to be good if it has no cinematic artistry. "Braveheart" was wonderful, but is radically different from the real history surrounding William Wallace.
"Prince Caspian" was a good movie because it did away with many of the unneeded lines and descriptions. "Lord of the Rings" would have been terribly dragging if it followed the books verbatim. Changing the book is sometimes necessary, because the book, if directly copied, would look rather lame to a viewer (just think if they included Aslan at the end... prancing with Bachus! nnooo!!). Think of the people who didn't read Prince Caspian. Reading is different than watching, and PC was done marvelously IMO. Much more mature than the first, and captivating cinematically as well.
And if this particular series does not continue, they'll never be able to do it again, because everyone knows the actors, and the actors grow up.
Sometimes books need to be changed. They should make "The Scarlet Letter" into another movie. Yeah, they've made like 9 scarlet letters before, but I read the book. Talk about boredem! The emotions of the people play a big part. They could really make a good one if they expound on the music (has to be a good score, or it'll fall flat). The camera angles have to have a certain way of treating the characters on screen. The color tint, the acting, even the lines! Sure, change the book a bit, but a movie isn't going to be good if it has no cinematic artistry. "Braveheart" was wonderful, but is radically different from the real history surrounding William Wallace.
"Prince Caspian" was a good movie because it did away with many of the unneeded lines and descriptions. "Lord of the Rings" would have been terribly dragging if it followed the books verbatim. Changing the book is sometimes necessary, because the book, if directly copied, would look rather lame to a viewer (just think if they included Aslan at the end... prancing with Bachus! nnooo!!). Think of the people who didn't read Prince Caspian. Reading is different than watching, and PC was done marvelously IMO. Much more mature than the first, and captivating cinematically as well.
And if this particular series does not continue, they'll never be able to do it again, because everyone knows the actors, and the actors grow up.
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MrBob
Well-known member
"If Walden Media looks like they're changing the book to make it a good movie, then YAY! XP"
Jane, as Barbarian mentioned, good is subjective and altering the plot of the book can be dangerous. Keeping with the plot of the story is important in any book-to-movie endeavor. The movie does not have to be verbatim, either, but it does have to be able to follow the spirit of the book.
This is where LWW exceled and PC failed. Yes, in LWW they did have some parts where the movie went beyond what was in the book such as the waterfalll scene and the lack of romping with Aslan after he rose from the dead, but overall, the two mediums had the same feel to them.
PC had so many changes that it was virtually a different plot than the book. Changing Peter's character from the beginning, adding the conflict between Peter and Caspian, virtually taking most of the characters of Lucy and Edmund, etc. changed the feel of the movie into something very different from the book.
They can easily make VotDT into a good movie without altering the plot of the book too much. It will be hard to fit all of the adventures into a 120-150 minute movie, but they still need to keep some things in while being able to leave out others, even if I wanted to see the Undersea people.
We have already had one scare where the role of Trumpkin is being threatened for the movie. That may not be an issue now, but it will if and when TSC comes out. With Trumpkin on board, they will either have to change Aslan's first task for Jill or not have Trumpkin as the Regent.
The key to VotDT is to balance the book's complete plot with the change of medium to a movie format. They did a wonderful job in LWW but not as well in PC. How they handle this balancing job will determine the future of the series.
MrBob
Jane, as Barbarian mentioned, good is subjective and altering the plot of the book can be dangerous. Keeping with the plot of the story is important in any book-to-movie endeavor. The movie does not have to be verbatim, either, but it does have to be able to follow the spirit of the book.
This is where LWW exceled and PC failed. Yes, in LWW they did have some parts where the movie went beyond what was in the book such as the waterfalll scene and the lack of romping with Aslan after he rose from the dead, but overall, the two mediums had the same feel to them.
PC had so many changes that it was virtually a different plot than the book. Changing Peter's character from the beginning, adding the conflict between Peter and Caspian, virtually taking most of the characters of Lucy and Edmund, etc. changed the feel of the movie into something very different from the book.
They can easily make VotDT into a good movie without altering the plot of the book too much. It will be hard to fit all of the adventures into a 120-150 minute movie, but they still need to keep some things in while being able to leave out others, even if I wanted to see the Undersea people.
We have already had one scare where the role of Trumpkin is being threatened for the movie. That may not be an issue now, but it will if and when TSC comes out. With Trumpkin on board, they will either have to change Aslan's first task for Jill or not have Trumpkin as the Regent.
The key to VotDT is to balance the book's complete plot with the change of medium to a movie format. They did a wonderful job in LWW but not as well in PC. How they handle this balancing job will determine the future of the series.
MrBob
I walked into the theater hoping they changed PC in the movie, because I finished reading the book and MAN! I thought it dragged so badly. I especially hoped they would cut the time spent travelling through the forest to get to the How; they did (YES!). All kinds of other things... I'm just glad they made the movie what it is.
Sometimes books need to be changed. They should make "The Scarlet Letter" into another movie. Yeah, they've made like 9 scarlet letters before, but I read the book. Talk about boredem! The emotions of the people play a big part. They could really make a good one if they expound on the music (has to be a good score, or it'll fall flat). The camera angles have to have a certain way of treating the characters on screen. The color tint, the acting, even the lines! Sure, change the book a bit, but a movie isn't going to be good if it has no cinematic artistry. "Braveheart" was wonderful, but is radically different from the real history surrounding William Wallace.
"Prince Caspian" was a good movie because it did away with many of the unneeded lines and descriptions. "Lord of the Rings" would have been terribly dragging if it followed the books verbatim. Changing the book is sometimes necessary, because the book, if directly copied, would look rather lame to a viewer (just think if they included Aslan at the end... prancing with Bachus! nnooo!!). Think of the people who didn't read Prince Caspian. Reading is different than watching, and PC was done marvelously IMO. Much more mature than the first, and captivating cinematically as well.
And if this particular series does not continue, they'll never be able to do it again, because everyone knows the actors, and the actors grow up.
so why not add a couple of attack helicopters and some huge explosions then? I mean, if all I wanted was entertainment out of the Narnia movies, well, then there's better junk out there than PC.
Sorry, but to me and many fans here, Narnia is not just another fantastic tale. In Narnia, there is nobility and divinity in the way the good characters are to behave.
I guess some people don't care if they drag the character of Peter in the mud. a silly romance, and treat Aslan as just another dumb beast-hero type as long as they get their entertainment.
And Truman, when you say that the book was boring and all of that, it tells me that you missed the entire theme and the whole spirit of the book.The whole movie was NOTHING like the spirit of Narnia, and that's why you liked it.
Darth Sparhawk
New member
Same here. I like the PC movie more than the book. I feel characters closer that way and I think that it works for the movie better, because it makes the story more exciting and the characters more human. This is MY opinion, the way how I feel. In my opinion I think that a direct adaptation of PC would have made the story seem dull, as a movie can not represent the wonderful style of Mr. Lewis and his way with words.
So I will expect the same treatment of VdT. If I want the book, I will read the book. I want a good, exciting movie.
You are right about one thing DS: The movie DID NOT represent CS Lewis at all. They really messed it up. You all can like your movie. I am sticking with the book. So much better.
Mrs Gil-Galad Took
New member
I enjoyed the movie as a movie on it's own. Not as a part of CoN. I only saw it once and really don't care much about the dvd either. This was NOT Lewis his story. If you read the books you'll know how Lewis wrote them and the spirit was missing in the movie. Hollywood always seem to change it for the sake of desperate teens who are in need of a new idol they can drool over. It was not even the kis that bothered me at all but it was useless because there was no chemistry between Susan and Caspian. No...I stick with the books. After all the movies were made AFTER the books and NOT before the books. If the books weren't written -boring or not- then there wouldn't be LWW and PC movies
Darth Sparhawk
New member
"at all" is a bit harsh, yes, there are changes and I wholeheartedly support them, as I am happy with the final product. Yet I want to add that the movies are separate from the books, which in my opinion should be obvious. It is natural as they are different forms of art, born in different times. I can understand the frustration of die hard fans of the books, but keep in mind that the movies are adding many new fans to the story, who will eventually buy the books.
After this, everybody can decide what he likes better. To me, however, people should be respectful even if they don't like something.
There's nothing disrespectful in what BarbarianKing says. The movies are seperate from the books but I guarantee you that the franchise won't last one more film if they venture off the path from the books again. The die hard fans not only won't accept it, they'd become Disney and Walden's worst nightmare and would likely discourage people from seeing it. If people liked the film, then good for them. There are parts that were well done. But the film as a whole was not Lewis' work. It was put in a modern view and it's not a modern book. So much of the book that contains the real treasure of it all was lost while useless extra action and romance were thrown in to take it from being a classic that is awesome to the basic cookie cutter style of Hollywood which is easily forgotten.
I agree with BarbarianKing, Mr Bob, Copperfox, and Nessa. The books will always rule and if the films don't start sticking to the books the franchise will be done and rightly so. I'd rather see Lewis' stories preserved where people get his actual stories than see them reduced to the typical dribble that Hollywood puts out, thus giving people a false impression of Lewis' works. His works became classics for a reason and they've been out a half century. One just doesn't change them with ease if they're intelligent. They are works of art that have changed peoples' lives and molded them into the people they are today. It IS possible for them to stick to the books and get a great movie. I firmly believe that. Otherwise I'd suggest that they quit and go home now. There's nothing wrong with thinking that way. It's not disrespectful to say that. I love the cast and crew to bits and think they're capable of getting it right if they get a good script. That's the kicker these days.
I have no doubt in my mind that serious trust was broken between the fans and franchise. The older die hard Narnia fans both online and offline were greatly put off by aspects of PC for various reasons. Some young fans were too. Many young fans who aren't as attached didn't care as much and just wanted basic entertainment which they can find almost anywhere. Several just liked the guys in the films and didn't care what they were doing. To them I'd say, find a thrill for entertainment elsewhere if possible rather than support classics being ruined.
Sure films need to be adapted which means some changes but the spirit of the characters and the plot need to remain in tact. This didn't happen in PC and people were upset. If you'd loved a character for 30+ years and someone represented them where they weren't recognizable as the character you'd known, you'd probably be upset too. They need to pick and choose carefully what they put in. Hopefully they can do better with this next film. I'm just hoping to see a lot more respect for the classics. These are NOT your normal books that can be played with at will in any way one wishes. One just does not do that with classics.
I agree with BarbarianKing, Mr Bob, Copperfox, and Nessa. The books will always rule and if the films don't start sticking to the books the franchise will be done and rightly so. I'd rather see Lewis' stories preserved where people get his actual stories than see them reduced to the typical dribble that Hollywood puts out, thus giving people a false impression of Lewis' works. His works became classics for a reason and they've been out a half century. One just doesn't change them with ease if they're intelligent. They are works of art that have changed peoples' lives and molded them into the people they are today. It IS possible for them to stick to the books and get a great movie. I firmly believe that. Otherwise I'd suggest that they quit and go home now. There's nothing wrong with thinking that way. It's not disrespectful to say that. I love the cast and crew to bits and think they're capable of getting it right if they get a good script. That's the kicker these days.
I have no doubt in my mind that serious trust was broken between the fans and franchise. The older die hard Narnia fans both online and offline were greatly put off by aspects of PC for various reasons. Some young fans were too. Many young fans who aren't as attached didn't care as much and just wanted basic entertainment which they can find almost anywhere. Several just liked the guys in the films and didn't care what they were doing. To them I'd say, find a thrill for entertainment elsewhere if possible rather than support classics being ruined.
Sure films need to be adapted which means some changes but the spirit of the characters and the plot need to remain in tact. This didn't happen in PC and people were upset. If you'd loved a character for 30+ years and someone represented them where they weren't recognizable as the character you'd known, you'd probably be upset too. They need to pick and choose carefully what they put in. Hopefully they can do better with this next film. I'm just hoping to see a lot more respect for the classics. These are NOT your normal books that can be played with at will in any way one wishes. One just does not do that with classics.
Jane-Guard of the Volturi
New member
I've been a fan of the books since... before I could read, which means it's probably about 10 years, but, like I'm a fan of Harry Potter, and Twilight, I don't expect to see an exact translation of the book. Compared to the BBC version, the Disney movies are much less true to the book, warranted, but they're also much better movies. I'm sure there are people who would disagree with me on that, and this, but I think that books have to be changed to become good movies. Sure, there are always diehard fans who will be disappointed, but, being a Narnia fan myself (though perhaps not quite as diehard as some of you guys *bows*) I'd say I'm willing to go through some major plot changes if it means the movie is better. The problem with PC wasn't that they changed it from the origanal book, it was that they didn't change it the right way. ^_^ The movies are a franchise in their own right, and they haven't changed (or ruined) the way I read the books.
I am going to say this one last thing then I'll leave this thread because all of this was already discussed in detail in many threads in this section. Some threads don't even appear in the page anymore.
The Chronicles of Narnia books are not just another fantasy tale. If it was, I would also put it in the same level with HP and many others. In fact if it was just another tale, there are better ones out there than that to be honest. The Chronicles of Narnia has something that no other fantasy tale has: they show us the Character of God and the way He expects His servants to behave. Lewis uses a lot of images to show this to the common people, including the concept of "magic." If every fan of the books were to grasp this portrayal of the Divinity of Aslan to it's fullest, everyone will be against most changes in the films.
The PC movie completely did away with the nobility and chivalrous ways the characters are portrayed in the books. They made light of the full divinity of Aslan and he hardly appeared there. They tried to make it appeal to the masses for the sake of money and from the answers here, it looks like thy succeeded to some extent. But they never fooled us, the fans of the books who understand the concepts that Lewis was trying to teach us. We have read some more of Lewis' works and we know that what he said in CoN have a deeper meaning to be just another fantasy tale. For some, this is not very entertaining and of course, are in favor of changing the books just so they can get their entertainment guilt free.
So yea, give us another movie like PC that will totally destroy the spirit of the books, and you can be sure they will never make another one. If I have to, I myself will organize an oppositional movement to kill-off of any other movie that will mock the works of Lewis.
Like I said before somewhere else, the movies were about something similar to Narnia, heck, it even used the name Narnia, but they were not about the Narnia we love.
See ya.
The Chronicles of Narnia books are not just another fantasy tale. If it was, I would also put it in the same level with HP and many others. In fact if it was just another tale, there are better ones out there than that to be honest. The Chronicles of Narnia has something that no other fantasy tale has: they show us the Character of God and the way He expects His servants to behave. Lewis uses a lot of images to show this to the common people, including the concept of "magic." If every fan of the books were to grasp this portrayal of the Divinity of Aslan to it's fullest, everyone will be against most changes in the films.
The PC movie completely did away with the nobility and chivalrous ways the characters are portrayed in the books. They made light of the full divinity of Aslan and he hardly appeared there. They tried to make it appeal to the masses for the sake of money and from the answers here, it looks like thy succeeded to some extent. But they never fooled us, the fans of the books who understand the concepts that Lewis was trying to teach us. We have read some more of Lewis' works and we know that what he said in CoN have a deeper meaning to be just another fantasy tale. For some, this is not very entertaining and of course, are in favor of changing the books just so they can get their entertainment guilt free.
So yea, give us another movie like PC that will totally destroy the spirit of the books, and you can be sure they will never make another one. If I have to, I myself will organize an oppositional movement to kill-off of any other movie that will mock the works of Lewis.
Like I said before somewhere else, the movies were about something similar to Narnia, heck, it even used the name Narnia, but they were not about the Narnia we love.
See ya.
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Copperfox
Well-known member
You know what the "Prince Non-Caspian" movie was like? It was to the actual Chronicles of Narnia as the movie "Willow" was to "The Lord of the Rings." In "Willow," George Lucas tried to use the superficial mood of Tolkien, decorated with jazzy visual effects and cutesy bits; but not knowing the first thing about God and holiness, he could not capture the true spirit of Middle-Earth.
But Lucasfilms has more excuse than Walden Media, because they really can plead ignorance. Walden Media's empty suits CAN'T plead ignorance, because they DID do a good enough job with "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe." Thus, ruining "Prince Caspian" was NOT an innocent mistake--it was PREMEDITATED SABOTAGE.
But Lucasfilms has more excuse than Walden Media, because they really can plead ignorance. Walden Media's empty suits CAN'T plead ignorance, because they DID do a good enough job with "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe." Thus, ruining "Prince Caspian" was NOT an innocent mistake--it was PREMEDITATED SABOTAGE.
Darth Sparhawk
New member
Well, die hard fans might try to destroy the movies, Barbarian King, but I can telly you that of the CoN movies appeal to the fans of HP and LotR, it doesn't need fanatics to survive. PC was less successful because the book is less sucessful that the LWW and because it got sandwitched between Iron Man and Indy - and nothing stood a chance against the Lucas Arts juggernaut, not until the Joker stole the thunder with TDK.
Still PC grew a very decent numbers and I can tell you that if the next movie is with the same quality, as a fan of fantasy, I will support it with all my heart. I can't say what other people will do, I speak for myself. I will do my best to support the movie, as I have done with my fave movies. And I am sure that there are other people like me.
About the fact that Narnia is special - it is a great series, but IMO there are other works in the same genre, who are also very strong, possibly stronger, to me HP is such series. It is a matter of taste and of course everybody has the right to defend and bash what he wants, but I will use my right to defend Narnia movies and Walden and attack bashers for narrow-mindedness, arrogance and fanaticism whenever I find them.
As I have done with HP fanatics as well.
I respect NarniaFans here tremendously, even if I disagree with them sometimes. I think that they are kind and good people. But I will not compromise with my beliefs and my tastes.
PC was a great movie, Narnia is a great franchise and I prefer this movies to the BBC "loyal adaptations" any day. I prefer the movies even to the books.
Time will tell who will succeed. But even if Narnia series is not finished, well they are separate stories, so it isn't such a big deal. I am concerned whether a good movie can be made from the prequel or "The Horse and His Boy" in general, so I personally think that it will stop as the "Silver Chair".
And if I am right and the remaining two movies are as good as PC - who I like more than LWW, BTW - I am happy with that.
Still PC grew a very decent numbers and I can tell you that if the next movie is with the same quality, as a fan of fantasy, I will support it with all my heart. I can't say what other people will do, I speak for myself. I will do my best to support the movie, as I have done with my fave movies. And I am sure that there are other people like me.
About the fact that Narnia is special - it is a great series, but IMO there are other works in the same genre, who are also very strong, possibly stronger, to me HP is such series. It is a matter of taste and of course everybody has the right to defend and bash what he wants, but I will use my right to defend Narnia movies and Walden and attack bashers for narrow-mindedness, arrogance and fanaticism whenever I find them.
As I have done with HP fanatics as well.
I respect NarniaFans here tremendously, even if I disagree with them sometimes. I think that they are kind and good people. But I will not compromise with my beliefs and my tastes.
PC was a great movie, Narnia is a great franchise and I prefer this movies to the BBC "loyal adaptations" any day. I prefer the movies even to the books.
Time will tell who will succeed. But even if Narnia series is not finished, well they are separate stories, so it isn't such a big deal. I am concerned whether a good movie can be made from the prequel or "The Horse and His Boy" in general, so I personally think that it will stop as the "Silver Chair".
And if I am right and the remaining two movies are as good as PC - who I like more than LWW, BTW - I am happy with that.
That's the thing with books being made into films. The stories are chosen because they're good stories. If all people are interested in are good films then they should write their own good stories and make some. But if one is going to make a film of a book then they should stick to the story that was worth making in the first place. When the plot is changed to make it a good film it becomes worthless to the book fans most of the time. The story is what made it worthwhile from the start and that's what book fans want to see. Some changes can't be helped in adaptation, but when handling books in general, but especially classics....they shouldn't be changed any more than they absolutely have to be. People who are interested in just good films should write original scripts and have them made into good films. If the film can't be made well with the plot in tact, it shouldn't be attempted in the first place.
Tread carefully with that. You can attack ideas and you can disagree with people. But when you venture into attacking the other members, you cross the line and won't remain on the forum. I hope that is completely understood. It's not the law on here that everyone has to like what happened with the film and Disney/Walden are up for some criticizm. It's part of being in the spotlight and the cast and crew are tough skinned enough to handle it. They're professionals. They're amazing people. Fans should try to keep it respectful, but all you can do is disagree. Calling people names on here like "narrow-minded" or "arrogant" will get one banned if it happens again. Attack ideas and not people.
Darth Sparhawk
New member
Oh, Into the Wardrobe, I have nothing against people. Actually, I think that it is pretty clear that I have high opinion of people here.
But my opinion about the feelings which cause people to bash the movies - I said it, I won't repeat it, but I that's what I think. Besides, the attacks on screewriters and producers are also attack for people, so to me this seems pretty strange.
But if I am not wanted here, no need for banning. Feel free to PM me and I will leave. No problem with that. But think about how dangerous is for your hatred for the movies to cause fellow Narnia fans to leave. Maybe two threads, for movie fans and movie bashers are needed. I dunno. But I think that fans of the movies have their right to like them and talk freely about themwithout contantly reading how bad and awful are them.
I dunno, you tell me. But I love this movies and for me there is nothing wrong for a Narnia fan to defend Narnia movies in a Narnia forum.
Best regards!
But my opinion about the feelings which cause people to bash the movies - I said it, I won't repeat it, but I that's what I think. Besides, the attacks on screewriters and producers are also attack for people, so to me this seems pretty strange.
But if I am not wanted here, no need for banning. Feel free to PM me and I will leave. No problem with that. But think about how dangerous is for your hatred for the movies to cause fellow Narnia fans to leave. Maybe two threads, for movie fans and movie bashers are needed. I dunno. But I think that fans of the movies have their right to like them and talk freely about themwithout contantly reading how bad and awful are them.
I dunno, you tell me. But I love this movies and for me there is nothing wrong for a Narnia fan to defend Narnia movies in a Narnia forum.
Best regards!
Darth Sparhawk
New member
Well I guess I wouldn't be one of those people... since I agree with Darth on practically every point he just made.
Thank you, Truman.