The Series is threatened.

Let me clarify something up front. I don't hate the films at all. I struggle with bits of them very much and have high expectations of them. There's nothing wrong with that. I love the cast and crew to bits. They are phenominal people. I don't hate them and I do think that they're the best team. I struggle with the script writers more than others...but they already know that. I don't hate the films. I have problems with hollywood's imput and the "suits" who have their little formulas for what makes a film good...which tend to be too narrow.

It wouldn't be me running you off at all. Nice try, but blame isn't necessary there. Nor warranted. The only person running you off would be you. You have a choice to call people names or not. As I said, you can attack ideas all you want, but not members. There is a difference for the cast and crew. They haven't joined the discussion here yet. If they did, the same rules would apply. Attacking their work...it's normal. Attacking their person...not cool. I may not like everything that Marcus and McFeely do. I generally don't. But others can tell you that when I met them face to face I was polite and respectful. You can like the movies all you want. But you have to be cool with people not liking them too. I don't just post "I didn't like the film" I post exactly what I thought was wrong with it. Constructive criticism isn't a bad thing for the filmmakers to learn from. I'm on 3 main Narnia sites and see a lot of reviews and hear a ton online and off...I'm not just speaking for the fun of it.

Many fans are wary of where the series is headed and they should be. If they want to see Narnia, they have reason to worry. If they want to see loose adaptations, they might not mind so much. We've seen leaked early versions of scripts that are the stuff made of nightmares. We've heard imput on characters being where they shouldn't be. So, no, it's not that I hate the films at all. I just have overwhelmingly high expectations of them. I want to see the beloved stories Jack wrote and I grew up on. Nothing less. PC was less to me. LWW did pretty well overall with maybe one exception I can live with.

We're not just haters because we want to hate something. We're critical. That's not a bad thing. We have grievances, and after Disney/Walden refused to listen before the films came out...they should expect to hear this sort of thing. In many ways it was provoked in my opinion. The fans stated what they did and didn't want and no one listened. They did what they wanted and what they thought best. But sites like this exist for fans to have their say about it. I'm glad you liked the films. It's the thought that in the future they'd dare to continue messing with the stories in order to make the films better in their own eyes...yeah, that's something the older fans will never tolerate or support. We don't hate them. We disagree. We may hate some of their choices, but not the people.
 
"We're not just haters because we want to hate something. We're critical."

but this doesn't mean you're a hater, just a disliker !! ;) to me, haters insult other people work just because they're not well person ... I don't think you're like this !!!! :D
 
Well if most here disliked PC because it wasn't exactly filmed according to the books, then I'm probably going to like any loose adaptions made in the future. PC, the book, IMO sucked, and sucked bad. I walked into the theater hoping they would've changed the movie drastically. They did, and I loved it. To me, cinematic artistry overrides original intent. I thought the movie "Peter Pan" (2003) was wonderful, though it was drastically different from the book, just as "Hook" was, which I also loved.

If the producers plan on changing VotDT a bit, I don't mind a bit. I enjoyed the book, but they might make it better (to my satisfaction, at least). Let 'em change it. Might be better. PC was, anyway. :rolleyes:
 
I'm in agreement with Into the Wardrobe on a lot of points. Many of us who were disappointed in the films, were disappointed because of significant changes that were not necessary for the film and in fact detracted from the film in a significant manner. There were too many hollywood teenager cliches in the Prince Caspian film and that is where most of the damage was done to that film. Peter's arrogance and attitude were a serious turn-off for me as was the whole romance between Susan and Caspian. Neither of those were needed for the movie and both of those were strongly objected to by the fans of the series. We may not have the sheer numbers of super-dedicated fans that LotR has, but we still have enough to make a significant impact on the business of the film. People who would have seen an adaptation that followed the book more closely and kept with the spirit of the series several times, saw it once if at all. While a more loose adaptation might have widened the audience a bit, the actual fan base was not there and that's what hurt PC's revenue in the long run.

We all have a right to differing opinions of the film, and that's what makes a forum such as this one a wonderful place is that we CAN express our differing opinions. Some on here have expressed that they enjoyed the movie more than the book, others have felt that Disney/Walden did a very poor job with the adaptation. There is no wrong or right about these opinions, they are just simply different.
 
Wardrobe, I was trying to say that if I don't add something constructive to the forum and am irrelevant, I wouldn't want to ruin your discussion and I will willingly leave. As I have said, I have huge respect for people here, although I believe that the ideas behind their bashing are wrong and the names were focused on the ideas, and not the people. I apologise if it has sounded bad. But I do think that maybe a fan-only topic about the movie will be useful, so all Narnia fans could be feeling well.
May I start such topic?
 
WOOOAHHH! When I say I leave a thread I never come back but I clicked here on accident!!

I hope no one gets banned. That would not be fun. And no Darth, it was already tried before and it got locked. Just like I would expect them to lock a thread ONLY for people who disliked the movie. You cannot exclude anyone. Sorry.

But people who liked the changes to PC hear me. We are really not against good entertainment, really. In fact, we have great ideas for making VODT as entertaining as possible. Why don't you go contribute your ideas too? You are all welcome:

http://www.narniafans.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22646
 
I suggest some people should be a little more openmind, I mean, it's still a movie, they want to make it great, and amzing !!! so if they change stuff, and add some effects, I think some people should be a little more understanding, justmy opinion you know ...
 
Powl' said:
I suggest some people should be a little more openmind, I mean, it's still a movie, they want to make it great, and amzing !!! so if they change stuff, and add some effects, I think some people should be a little more understanding, justmy opinion you know ...
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Says who? Does "open-minded" mean accepting whatever junk Hollywood tries to ram down your throat? it that's what it means then no thanks, I prefer to not to open my mind to that. I however am a very discriminating person and will watch anything with a very critical eye.
I don't have to like what you liked and YOU don't have to like what I like. That is life. Just like there are many people who agree with our views, so are many who disagree. If we only reach out for those who agree with us while shunning and insulting (not that you insulted me Powl', you did not) those who disagree, we are not learning about life. Not everyone will agree with our views. We must get used to disappointment.
 
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Hollywood is not a terrible system that always gets everything wrong, you know. Lord of the Rings came out of Hollywood, remember, and I didn't find it too bad. ;)
 
BarbarianKing said:
Says who? Does "open-minded" mean accepting whatever junk Hollywood tries to ram down your throat? it that's what it means then no thanks, I prefer to not to open my mind to that. I however am a very discriminating person and will watch anything with a very critical eye.
I don't have to like what you liked and YOU don't have to like what I like. That is life. Just like there are many people who agree with our views, so are many who disagree. If we only reach out for those who agree with us while shunning and insulting (not that you insulted me Powl', you did not) those who disagree, we are not learning about life. Not everyone will agree with our views. We must get used to disappointment.
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no I meant, by openmind, just to not except something really stuck to the book, because you will be disapointed when you see the changes for the next movies ... see what I mean ??:confused:;)
 
Powl' said:
no I meant, by openmind, just to not except something really stuck to the book, because you will be disapointed when you see the changes for the next movies ... see what I mean ??:confused:;)
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Yes, I know exactly what you mean. However, when it comes to The Chronicles of Narnia, I have very high standards and high expectations. I will not lower that. I will not accept changes that destroy the character of the "characters" and makes a mockery of the divinity of Aslan. I know they will make changes, and some changes are good. The changes in PC were terrible.
For pure entertainment, I would watch "Spaceballs" anytime or even "The Fifth Element" as opposed to PC.

And I did not like the LOTR movies as much, so yea, a "good movie" is still a matter of opinion.

As for other books, they can make all the changes they want, it doesn't matter. The CoN series, no, I can't accept that.

(Unless of course the come from the following thread:D

http://www.narniafans.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22646
 
Sounds like you follow the books a little too religiously. :rolleyes:

You mean to tell me you would have enjoyed it if the filmmakers included Aslan, the great, powerful lion who rules like God over Narnia, prancing around like a fruity wimp with Greek representatives? I don't think so.

Many of the kids' lines in the book were a far cry from realistic-sounding. To me, it makes sense that Peter would have conflictions with Caspian since he was a king over Narnia for practically 20 years. I mean, wouldn't he feel the least bit uneasy about passing his kingship to a guy who doesn't know much of what to do at all? I know I would if I were him. These changes are practical and expected.

True feelings of real people are involved; you can't assume everything to be cool with everybody like when reading a book. This is a movie where people have emotions that reflect outward to people watching, not a paper with written words on it that you could interpret as you will. Filmmakers have these things to think about, and I thought they did wonderfully with it. Change the book or not, realism regarding emotion must prevail or else the movie'll look rather stupid. :( That's my opinion.
 
Truman said:
Change the book or not, realism regarding emotion must prevail or else the movie'll look rather stupid. :( That's my opinion.
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Like I said before, all of these thoughts were already rebutted in many threads right before and after the movie came out. And not just by me either. I am not going to repeat myself.

What makes a movie good is still a matter of opinion. However, the Divine aspects of the book, the values of honor, loyalty, chivalry, faith, trust, and submission are not up for discussion in my book. If they want to make a movie that will take all these things away then, go ahead. I am sure some people would not mind. I do.

So if you have an opinion about these or other issues, I suggest you do a search of the threads. It's all there. All your opinions have been thoughtfully refuted. I am done here cause some people just don't accept that others have high expectations and high standards when it comes to The Spirit that Lewis put into TCoN.

And yes, Truman, most fans here were disappointed that the movie did not include The Dancing Lawn and Aslan's Romp scenes. GO FIGURE US FANS, RIGHT? So yea, PC the book is awesome, if you don't take it as just another fantasy tale.

over and out! :)
 
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Truman said:
You mean to tell me you would have enjoyed it if the filmmakers included Aslan, the great, powerful lion who rules like God over Narnia, prancing around like a fruity wimp with Greek representatives? I don't think so.
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Is that seriously all you get out of the Romp scenes in the book? How pathetically sad. :(
 
Sunrise said:
Is that seriously all you get out of the Romp scenes in the book? How pathetically sad. :(
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Ouch!:D
And here I was trying to be gentle. :D You all thought I was hardcore? LOL.

Sunrise, you must understand that that came from someone who saw "Christian allegory" only in every other book and thinks that Prince Caspian the book "sucks." We all know that Christian themes are in every chapter of EVERY BOOK. That is why we oppose some of the changes, but like I said, some people just can't accept that.

Now seriously, over and out!!! LOL
 
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BarbarianKing said:
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. However, when it comes to The Chronicles of Narnia, I have very high standards and high expectations. I will not lower that. I will not accept changes that destroy the character of the "characters" and makes a mockery of the divinity of Aslan. I know they will make changes, and some changes are good. The changes in PC were terrible.
For pure entertainment, I would watch "Spaceballs" anytime or even "The Fifth Element" as opposed to PC.

And I did not like the LOTR movies as much, so yea, a "good movie" is still a matter of opinion.

As for other books, they can make all the changes they want, it doesn't matter. The CoN series, no, I can't accept that.

(Unless of course the come from the following thread:D
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yeah I see what you mean, but I said it in another thread, I didn't really like the PC book, so I prefered the movie, and the adventures of the Pevensies and Caspian ...
 
It's a sad thing that people today think making a movie "realistic" or a character "human" means dragging that character through the mud and tossing garbage into the story. Fairy tales never do that: the heroine is always pristine, the hero is always spotless. Even in today's re-imaginings of old fairy tales such as in Ella Enchanted or Beauty, this principle doesn't change. Peter and Caspian both were strong characters who had goodness at their foundation in the book, and it would have saved the film, to my mind, if they had been allowed to retain that. They wanted to do the right thing, even if they couldn't figure out what that was. In the film, Peter clearly isn't that bothered about doing the right thing; he is consumed with his own reputation. While this may be unerstandable to today's teens who are consumed with their own reputations, what would it have hurt to give them an example to look up to rather than just another Harry Potter type?

(Not to diss Harry, I love HP -- but we already have a troubled teen hero in Harry, we didn't need to turn Peter into one.)

So, to bring this back to the subject of the thread: if the series is threatened because of tepid response to PC movie, I don't mind. If the direction the writers went with the story in PC is an indication of the direction they want to move the series, then I think it's best if they do stop filming now.

I did like PC as a film; just not as a Narnia film.
 
BarbarianKing said:
All your opinions have been thoughtfully refuted.
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My opinions have been refuted? BK, you have to understand that opinions cannot be refuted. False information can be refuted; my opinions always remain the same. You can change someone's opinion; you can't refute it. So I hope we have that little mistake cleared up.

BarbarianKing said:
...The Spirit that Lewis put into TCoN.
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Last I read, Lewis was never really involved to the point of obsession like many here are (I can list a few). In fact, I've heard many die-hard Narnia fans before (from other forums) say that the books are best read in order of publication. Lewis said the opposite, as well as leaving much of the books to the reader's imagination, and also said he didn't mind so much--

Huh? Lewis? Not minding? I stick by my guns: you're following the books a little religiously. You need to cool down a bit.

Sunrise said:
Is that seriously all you get out of the Romp scenes in the book? How pathetically sad.
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I'm sorry... I guess I didn't read it enough (maybe... 3 million times) to actually get the meaning behind the prancing cat--er, I mean lion. :rolleyes:

inkspot said:
It's a sad thing that people today think making a movie "realistic" or a character "human" means dragging that character through the mud and tossing garbage into the story. Fairy tales never do that: the heroine is always pristine, the hero is always spotless. Even in today's re-imaginings of old fairy tales such as in Ella Enchanted or Beauty, this principle doesn't change.
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First you go saying that we throw garbage in movies because it makes them look realistic, then you turn right around and talk about fairy tales. :rolleyes: You just proved my point so well. Fairy tales vs. real-world stories. I consider the Narnia films slightly off-par with fantasy since the beginnings begin with real-life situations, like the London bombings in LWW.

I loved Adamson's quote in the commentary, about how people expect to go into the theater and see four children and a house, but he wanted the audience to "wake up" because these children are facing real situations with real people. This isn't a dreamscape that you can wake up from if things go wrong; you could legitimately die in Narnia.

Lewis' vision of Narnia is that of the child's wonderland, no question. LWW covered that. Now on with the show! You don't need "garbage" in a movie to make it realistic, true. But you need conflictions in character. All life for all time has conflicted everyday (except for Adam and Eve's time, of course). Are we to disrupt that fact with the idea that fantasy time is equal to playtime? Bless Peter Jackson for not going off with that idea: we would've gotten another 70s cartoon.

Prince Caspian, the movie, is a far, far cry from having "inserted garbage."

(...And Ella Enchanted... IMO, was also indupidably... what's the word... foolish? no no... weird? nah... oh I know! Embarrassing to watch, even though I was alone in the room.)


...Off the record, I've watched many movies. No, not just new ones; I'm not an idiot kid who hates the old-school way (I very much enjoyed His Girl Friday, btw), so I'm certainly not biased toward any movement in the film world toward a more liberal approach on the earth as we know it. I think $56 mil isn't too shabby for the second. People still liked the movie. (I personally loved it, and will probably watch it twice within the first day of getting it. :p)

Like I said, however, these are my opinions. No, you can't refute opinions, just change them. Barbarian, I agree with the allegory factor in the other books (which has been clearly pointed out to me). I stand corrected there; that's why I didn't respond again. :)
 
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