The Series is threatened.

Seeing as they are getting a new director for this next one, it can only get better. I don't think they will 'pull the plug' unless it is absolutely necessary.

Prince Caspian is simply the book no one had heard of. People hear of LWW, LB, and maybe MN but PC and the rest simply fall in the shadows. I do agree that we need to wait for the international releases before we make the call.
 
SweetWaters said:
Comments like this are really making me sad. Guys, I'm a huge fan of the books. I love PC, and I'm disappointed with the stuff they changed or left out of the movie. BUT I think it was still a great movie; first, just in terms of amazingness, and also in terms of the spiritual lesson. I want this series to be huge, and I hate that other fans would turn on such an amazing work as this movie really is. Guys, I've been through some pretty intense arguments here at TDL, and I've maintained all through it that I was going to stick it out because I love this forum so much. But I have to be honest; I'm really seriously considering leaving right now because I can't deal with all the hate that's going around. I'd hate to be gone until VDT comes out and is awesome enough to turn things around, but I feel like it's the only thing I can do, because lately just coming on here has been really depressing...

:(:(:(
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Lady of the Lion's Mane said:
^^Grace: I UNDERSTAND AND AGREE. The whole reason I came back after a 2 year hiatus was hoping to find some like-minded people with whom I could discuss the PC movie (Sorry, it's AWESOME) and Narnia in general, etc. Alas, I came here to find a massive amount of, as you put it, hate, going around, on the movie and all. :eek: It has not made me happy.
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I hope nobody will leave TDL just because some folks were disappointed in the movie. Good grief, everyone has a right to their opinion, and I don't hear any of the disappointed people threatening to leave because some people liked the movie! Further, I have not heard many people say the movie was bad; most of us who had issues with Peter's character and Aslan's lack of presence also said we thought the film was terrific as an action-adventure movie in its own right.

I've read very few comments here that the film was bad from start to finish or should be a horrible flop. But even if someone thought that, they have the right to say it, and it really shouldn't encourage anyone to leave the forum, depressed.

TDL is about the Narnia films, of course, but it is also about the books, about spiritual and ethical topics that relate to the writings of CS Lewis, about chatting with friends and Duffering; there is a whole lot more to the site than movie reviews. I hope and pray no one will go away mad just because PC film didn't live up to the expectations of many who loved PC book. That would truly be throwing out the baby with the bath water.
 
In some respects, the film WAS bad from start to finish. And there was NO NEED for it to be bad, they CHOSE to make it bad. There was NO NEED AT ALL to make Peter look like a bum and a loser, they CHOSE to do that. They have themselves to blame, NOT Indiana Jones, if the series falters. Like POTW, I went to the LWW movie in theaters many times, but I only went to this one once, and came away with a bad taste in my mouth.

I could have swallowed everything else; but smearing Peter's character, and their denying Aslan's omniscience as God ("WE will never know..."), were both unacceptable, and COMPLETELY unnecessary for them to have done.
 
inkspot said:
I hope nobody will leave TDL just because some folks were disappointed in the movie. Good grief, everyone has a right to their opinion, and I don't hear any of the disappointed people threatening to leave because some people liked the movie! Further, I have not heard many people say the movie was bad; most of us who had issues with Peter's character and Aslan's lack of presence also said we thought the film was terrific as an action-adventure movie in its own right.

I've read very few comments here that the film was bad from start to finish or should be a horrible flop. But even if someone thought that, they have the right to say it, and it really shouldn't encourage anyone to leave the forum, depressed.

TDL is about the Narnia films, of course, but it is also about the books, about spiritual and ethical topics that relate to the writings of CS Lewis, about chatting with friends and Duffering; there is a whole lot more to the site than movie reviews. I hope and pray no one will go away mad just because PC film didn't live up to the expectations of many who loved PC book. That would truly be throwing out the baby with the bath water.
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I agree inky, I hope no one would leave based on that either. It would be rather narrow minded to think that everyone would love everything about the film and it's ok if they don't. It's great if they do. But if people were to spend their lives continually running away from things because people don't agree with them they'll eventually find that they're pretty lonely. Let's face it. It happens. The film was good for what it was. It wasn't anywhere near what I'd hoped for, but that can't be changed now. It all came down to the script again and I had an idea that this was coming so I can't get too down I guess.

I think it's good for all opinions to be voiced. I think it would be terribly mean and unloving toward the filmmakers if the fans told them only what they wanted to hear and not how they really felt. If you're happy then say you're happy, if you're disappointed then say so but include specifically why this was the case. If people merely came on and said that they loved it and loved everything about it and didn't really feel that way it would be a great disservice to the filmmakers. They need to know what the fans really think.

When it comes down to the end of the day we do love the filmmakers. We do think highly of them as people and we care about their well-being. That doesn't mean we'll like or love everything in the films and that's ok. I think they're grown up enough to handle that and they understand this concept.

By all means stick around. We love all our members. Just remember that it's ok for everyone to have an opinion, whatever that opinion may be. Fans need to be respectful, but honest.
 
Copperfox said:
In some respects, the film WAS bad from start to finish. And there was NO NEED for it to be bad, they CHOSE to make it bad. There was NO NEED AT ALL to make Peter look like a bum and a loser, they CHOSE to do that. They have themselves to blame, NOT Indiana Jones, if the series falters. Like POTW, I went to the LWW movie in theaters many times, but I only went to this one once, and came away with a bad taste in my mouth.
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I would encourage you to see it again. I think I was so keyed up with worries when I saw it, a lot of what I saw was the discrepancies between the book and the movie. I went to see it again last night, and I found a whole lot more to love about it. In fact, when the train station started to disintegrate and the kids made their way back into Narnia, I was in tears, just like I was at the beginning of LWW actually. I saw a lot more of the old PC which I was looking for when I saw the film a second time.

I still have tremendous issues with it, but I can say that I enjoyed it as a good action-adventure film, and I am more kindly disposed toward the changes now than I was. I do hope to see a very decided move back toward the books in VDT, and I am very hopeful about this because of the new director. I admired Amazing Grace, and he think he can give us a VDT we can all relate to and see the spirit of CS Lewis' Narnia.
 
Knight of Narnia said:
Prince Caspian suffers from a bad plan put into effect by Disney/Walden.

1) Summer = Superheros ; Fall = Fantasy. This is the rule that the box office seems to follow. Disney/Walden attempted to go against "flow" and their movie is experiencing trouble for it.

2) LWW did most of it's business in the weeks following the release, due in large to a relatively uncrowded box office that followed. The same can be said for LotR. There are too many big budget movies coming out this summer for PC to be able to regain its foothold in the box office the same way LWW did.

3) Poor marketing. I mentioned this on another thread but I still think that D/W almost ignored this movie when it came to marketing the film. Few trailers, little use of the website, little use of television, and little use of retail outlets to drive sales will wind up hurting them in the long run.

4) Competion from within. Disney is poised to push Wall-E as its "premier" film for the summer, and will leave PC stranded.

PC will still do well overall. It may not turn the profit that LWW did, but this might teach D/W a lesson on how to market a film.
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Excellent points.

1.) Going against the grain worked fine back in the seventies when blockbusters began but now you almost ahve to stick with the tried and true formulas for releasing films. You don't see Batman ro Spider-Man tryignto comepte durring Christmas.

2. Correct. The only film LWW, went againts was Peter Jackson's King Kong. PJ may ahve been the king in 2003 with ROTK, but Kong was less of a Christmas tiem film and more of a summer hit. ( what else was out then? Oh yeah a bunch of indie flicks that won Oscars.)

3. And with what they did advertise, they almost shwoed too much like the River-God or Reepicheep. They especailly showed to much of PRince Caspian himself. Agruably that was one of CS LEwis's problems with the title of the book itself was that it gave to much away. You "know" what the story is about before you start and in terms of the trailers as soon as you saw Ben Barnes say, " I am Prince Caspian" you said, ok, that's him. On the converse Speilberg and co wisely used the aura of mystery for Indiana Jones. Movie goers should want to go to the movie and when you get everything handed to you early on why go?

4. Nothing to address there. IT's pretty much true, I've seen them promote more for Wall-E. Which while I admit I want to see, I wonder if a little kid going to want to see a moive where the main characters don't really talk?
 
Those some good points. If you don't keep the mystery of the movie in tact, people will not go watch it to see what happens.

Look at the movie Cloverfield. The trailers were amazing, they didn't show you anything that would show you what the Monster was until after the movie was already released for about a week. They released it at a great time. The beginning the year is for romance comedies mostly. Releasing a Monster movie is a perfect time for that. Cloverfield didn't have to go up against the summer blockbusters or the winter family movies.

However, Cloverfield had next to no advertising. Well, except the viral marketing. Which wouldn't have been good for a movie like Prince Caspian. PC was the kind of movie that needed a lot of attention before it's release, but it barely got any.

I think it would have helped the movie if one of the fast food places would have done a kids meal deal. Then not only would have the kids known about the movie, but so would have the parents.

Whenever a new Harry Potter movie is released, you see so many tv spots and advertisements that I get so sick of the movie before I even see it.

It would have just been nice if Prince Caspian had gotten more advertising.
 
Jersey Dagmar said:
Those some good points. If you don't keep the mystery of the movie in tact, people will not go watch it to see what happens.

Look at the movie Cloverfield. The trailers were amazing, they didn't show you anything that would show you what the Monster was until after the movie was already released for about a week. They released it at a great time. The beginning the year is for romance comedies mostly. Releasing a Monster movie is a perfect time for that. Cloverfield didn't have to go up against the summer blockbusters or the winter family movies.

However, Cloverfield had next to no advertising. Well, except the viral marketing. Which wouldn't have been good for a movie like Prince Caspian. PC was the kind of movie that needed a lot of attention before it's release, but it barely got any.

I think it would have helped the movie if one of the fast food places would have done a kids meal deal. Then not only would have the kids known about the movie, but so would have the parents.

Whenever a new Harry Potter movie is released, you see so many tv spots and advertisements that I get so sick of the movie before I even see it.

It would have just been nice if Prince Caspian had gotten more advertising.
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Exactly, or look at the upcoming "The Dark Knight" ( Batman Begins 2). They're usinng the right blend of on-line and TV, and theaters. But then again that needs very little coverage because of certain real world events ( like the death of Heath Ledger.)

Fast food helps ! Kids always get the kids meals and as soon as they see a toy for a movie they go, " I wanna see it" ( but at the same time it hasn't helped Speed Racer.) and once kids get an idea in their heads it doesn't go out.

I think some of what may ahve hurt it were teh controversial changes. Fans did complain a lot about Susan fighting, the night raid, and character changes to Peter adn Caspian. oh, and the kiss. Look at the Two Towers. AS soon as word leaked that Arwen was to fight in Helms Deep, fans got up in arms and Jackson fixed it and realized he went to far and ahsn't even put it in the Extended Edition. Besides respecting the soruce material they should have respected the fans wishes. Jackson tried hard to do that and he and GDT are making a point of talking with fans on theOneRing.Net's forums. Fans liek it when we have some sayin films based on fantasy works.
 
Well, the changes in the movie of Prince Caspian bothered me very little. Being it isn't my favorite book from the series I wasn't too upset over some of the differences.

Susan fighting was fine by me. We are living in a different time now and a woman fighting is acceptable. Sure, back in Lewis's time it was not, but I think Susan just sitting on the sidelines in the movie would have caused it to more harm then good.

And Peter and Caspian? Not my favorite of characters. Though I enjoyed Caspian's character in movie more then Peter's.
 
inkspot said:
I hope nobody will leave TDL just because some folks were disappointed in the movie. Good grief, everyone has a right to their opinion, and I don't hear any of the disappointed people threatening to leave because some people liked the movie! Further, I have not heard many people say the movie was bad; most of us who had issues with Peter's character and Aslan's lack of presence also said we thought the film was terrific as an action-adventure movie in its own right.

I've read very few comments here that the film was bad from start to finish or should be a horrible flop. But even if someone thought that, they have the right to say it, and it really shouldn't encourage anyone to leave the forum, depressed.

TDL is about the Narnia films, of course, but it is also about the books, about spiritual and ethical topics that relate to the writings of CS Lewis, about chatting with friends and Duffering; there is a whole lot more to the site than movie reviews. I hope and pray no one will go away mad just because PC film didn't live up to the expectations of many who loved PC book. That would truly be throwing out the baby with the bath water.
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ACK. I just wrote out a whole long reply in which I basically said I can understand that people would be disappointed in the movie, but I don't like the attitudes of giving up on the whole series and being universally negative, thanking Inky for encouraging me to stay and explaining I haven't decided if I'm going to stay yet or not... And my computer just lost it all. I really don't feel like typing it all out again, so there is the condensed version. :p

I really do thank all the people who have been so nice and encouraged me to stay... :eek:
 
Susan fighting was fine by me. We are living in a different time now and a woman fighting is acceptable. Sure, back in Lewis's time it was not, but I think Susan just sitting on the sidelines in the movie would have caused it to more harm then good.
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A woman fighting would have been acceptable in Lewis' time. Women's rights were just getting off the ground, women had become actualized to make a huge difference in World War II. In HHB, Lewis even tells us that Lucy the Valiant went to war with her brothers. This character trait of Susan the Gentle was not something Lewis through in because he grew up in medieval times and thought women to fragile to fight.

What we object to here isn't a woman fighting, but Susan fighting, when it is clear in the books she was "Susan the Gentle," too tender-hearted to shoot a bear which might be a Talking Bear even though it is about to eat Lucy, too tender-hearted to kill a Telmarine soldier though he is about to drown Trumpkin. Her disdain for violence and bloodshed were part of her character, and the director chose to obliterate that part. If they had transformed Lucy into the one who did the fighting, Lucy the Valiant, in the film, it would have been better.

As for Susan's staying on the sidelines causing "more harm than good," Lucy in the film stayed on the sidelines, and she did not cause any harm. I'm not sure what you mean by this ...
 
She was given a bow and arrow was she not? What's the point of having a weapon if it's not going to be used?

And what I meant was that if she didn't help in the battle, what would have she done? She tried going with Lucy to find Aslan, but that failed. So after that what as her purpose? To just stand around and look pretty?
 
Jersey Dagmar said:
And what I meant was that if she didn't help in the battle, what would have she done? She tried going with Lucy to find Aslan, but that failed. So after that what as her purpose? To just stand around and look pretty?
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So, in order to have a meaningful role in a "war" movie, you have to be one of the soldiers? If the script had been more faithful to the book, Susan and Lucy would have had the best possible roles, to my mind.

Not that I did not enjoy the movie, I really did. Even more the second time, as Grateful Surrender says. I really liked it! I just feel it could have been even better if they had paid more attention to the real themes of the book and employed some of the books more magical moments as scenes in the movie.
 
Jersey Dagmar said:
She was given a bow and arrow was she not? What's the point of having a weapon if it's not going to be used?

And what I meant was that if she didn't help in the battle, what would have she done? She tried going with Lucy to find Aslan, but that failed. So after that what as her purpose? To just stand around and look pretty?
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Technically, the fact that her failed attempt in going with Lu was the writers' fault. Had they not deviated greatly from the book they could have avoided the whole "standing around, looking pretty" problem.

But I Didn't mind Susan fighting. By that point I had given up on my disappointment in the adaptation of the book.
 
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I have not read all of the posts but this is what I think from the few that I did read. Yes Caspian has suffered. It did not do as well as Lion and it might continue to do worse but what did they expect when they drifted soooooo far from the book that so many people loved. I personally left the theater the first night and was so disappointed I was crying. My sister convinced me to go watch it again and look at it from a different angle and so I did. Now I must say after talking it through with fans that have read the books as well as those who haven’t I do like the movie. I think what Prince Of the West said on the fist page is so very true. When Lion came out people couldn’t wait to get their hands on the DVD and after that the extended version and then yet another extended version but I fear that when Caspian comes out most fans will respond the way POTW did and may or may not buy it and if they do it will be a cheaper used copy. We see the same thing in theaters. When Lion came out people would go see it, then take their families, then take their friends. It was watched over and over by the same people as well as first timers. Caspian however not so much. For one, people aren’t brining their little kids to see it because it is too violent. Sure there is no gore but most parents with smaller children object to fighting as much as gore. I am sad that Caspian is taking such a big hit but what did Walden / Disney expect when they stray so far from the book. If they were going to botch one book I think Prince Caspian is the best book to do that with because over all it is the least favorite book of the series but I hope they get a clue.
As for Ben Barnes not doing a good job I think that is very wrong. Ben was just as good as Will if not better but I think the reason he is labeled that way in this film is because of the roll he was given to work with. He is not the kid Caspian we all were expecting and from there for many people it was down hill from there.
The fact of Susan fighting upset me as well. Ink I think you hit the nail on the head with this,
inkspot said:
In HHB, Lewis even tells us that Lucy the Valiant went to war with her brothers. This character trait of Susan the Gentle was not something Lewis through in because he grew up in medieval times and thought women to fragile to fight.

What we object to here isn't a woman fighting, but Susan fighting, when it is clear in the books she was "Susan the Gentle," too tender-hearted to shoot a bear which might be a Talking Bear even though it is about to eat Lucy, too tender-hearted to kill a Telmarine soldier though he is about to drown Trumpkin. Her disdain for violence and bloodshed were part of her character, and the director chose to obliterate that part. If they had transformed Lucy into the one who did the fighting, Lucy the Valiant, in the film, it would have been better.
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Some say that Lucy could not have logically fought in the Movie because she was so young and I think that is nonsense. In the first film Edmund was not much older than Lucy was in PC and he fought till the very end. Lucy fighting would have been a good addition to the movie if they had to have a woman fighting but they made Susan out to be more like Zelda the Warier Princess than what Aslan called her which was Gentle. She was known in the Golden age as the most kind, gentle, loving, caring person not a girl who goes out and kills in battle. This disappointed me more than even the liberties that they took with Peter’s character
 
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THEY CAN'T CANCEL THE NEXT FILMS! Caspian was amazing! I loved it. So did many others. If they cancel the next few films then many people will want to know what happens! ESPECIALLY ME! Uh... that's sad that it dropped. But it also has Indiana Jones come out like a week after it. So? I see why. I hate Indy. So I still am a Caspian fan.
 
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