The Series is threatened.

THANK YOU, BarbarianKing! You at least can see that it IS NOT "myself" I need to "get over;" what I'm upset about is what they did to the CONTENT. Just as you observe, modern popular culture is always trying to pull down what is noble and superior.

I started the thread "Losing the Concept of Virtue" back when I first began to find out that "Prince Caspian" was going to be "denatured." As an early illustration for that thread, I contrasted the classic Western movie "High Noon" with its grossly inferior cable-TV remake. The original "High Noon" was a noble tale of duty and honor, and the remake drained off about two-thirds of the moral uplift. The original "Prince Caspian" was in large part about the passing of wisdom from one generation (Peter) to the next (Caspian); but the movie scarcely left Peter anything TO pass along to Caspian.

I could accept the so-called humanizing, actually diminishing, of heroes, if it were true that no one in real life is ever a glorious hero. But in actual fact, even among mortals (without at this point gazing on the ABSOLUTE perfection of the Lord Jesus), there ARE glorious heroes to admire. To name just three who come to mind from real history, there's Yi Sun-Shin, the patriotic liberator of Korea; Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, the valiant leader of the 20th Maine Infantry in the American Civil War; and Eric Liddell of Scotland, whose real-life deeds were GREATER than what is shown in the movie "Chariots of Fire." Since there ARE great hearts in the mundane world, why can't we allow a fictional character like Peter Pevensie to be at least AS great as they?
 
Copperfox said:
THANK YOU, BarbarianKing! You at least can see that it IS NOT "myself" I need to "get over;" what I'm upset about is what they did to the CONTENT. Just as you observe, modern popular culture is always trying to pull down what is noble and superior.

I started the thread "Losing the Concept of Virtue" back when I first began to find out that "Prince Caspian" was going to be "denatured." As an early illustration for that thread, I contrasted the classic Western movie "High Noon" with its grossly inferior cable-TV remake. The original "High Noon" was a noble tale of duty and honor, and the remake drained off about two-thirds of the moral uplift. The original "Prince Caspian" was in large part about the passing of wisdom from one generation (Peter) to the next (Caspian); but the movie scarcely left Peter anything TO pass along to Caspian.

I could accept the so-called humanizing, actually diminishing, of heroes, if it were true that no one in real life is ever a glorious hero. But in actual fact, even among mortals (without at this point gazing on the ABSOLUTE perfection of the Lord Jesus), there ARE glorious heroes to admire. To name just three who come to mind from real history, there's Yi Sun-Shin, the patriotic liberator of Korea; Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, the valiant leader of the 20th Maine Infantry in the American Civil War; and Eric Liddell of Scotland, whose real-life deeds were GREATER than what is shown in the movie "Chariots of Fire." Since there ARE great hearts in the mundane world, why can't we allow a fictional character like Peter Pevensie to be at least AS great as they?
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You're welcome. Yes, I believe also that humanizing would be ok if, there was nothing else to compare. But yes, you have mentioned some of my heroes, people who did great and honorable deeds, some against terrible odds. The reason why Peter's character was not as great in PC is because moviemakers don't believe in those values anymore and think that no one else in the modern world believes in them. Or worse, they do believe in them and are purposely trying to undermine them.
 
BK, it's fitting that you display a picture of Susan with her bow, for you also are on target!

There ARE plenty of Hollywood-lice ACTUALLY trying to destroy moral ideals, so that THEY won't have to answer to those ideals. What I'm saying here is not directed at the Narnia adapters, but at out-and-out clods like Ted Turner. No one who understands Hollywood can say sincerely that ALL they care about there is money. There are persons in show business who feel a distorted sense of mission--a "mission" to lower all moral standards, so that they themselves can live like pigs and not be made ashamed of themselves.
 
Everyone has their right to think whatever they want on this movie. I completely disagree with Copperfox's and Barbarian King's takes on this movie. Doesn't mean I have inherant right to post here and they don't. Everybody bring something different to the table, including their own past and perspectives, so you can't expect everyone to like the film, same as everyone can't dislike the film.
 
Daishi said:
Everyone has their right to think whatever they want on this movie. I completely disagree with Copperfox's and Barbarian King's takes on this movie. Doesn't mean I have inherant right to post here and they don't. Everybody bring something different to the table, including their own past and perspectives, so you can't expect everyone to like the film, same as everyone can't dislike the film.
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I am glad that you feel free to express your opinion without diminishing the freedom of others to express their own. I am impressed.
 
Considering the quality of Christian testimony Daishi has offered elsewhere on-forum, I am not at all surprised at this display of the right and legitimate kind of tolerance.
 
Daishi said:
Honestly I think the big punch to Narnia's gut was Indiana Jones the next week. Indy's had one of the biggest openings ever. There's tons of parents out there who remember vividly the first trilogy. I mean heck, even the final Rocky and Rambo movies did well, and those petered out as series. Indy went out strong. So one thing to consider as well is that America's dollar is weak right now, our economy just isnt strong. With less cash to spend Indy's soaking up the dollars.
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I totally agree. It had more to do with other movie releases than it had to do with anything. Hindsight would suggest that Prince Caspian should have been released prior to mid May, but the studios probably had no clue originally that the Indiana Jones film would be released over the Memorial Day weekend. Nor that the extremely popular "Sex in the City" would be released after that. Each of the films grabbing the number one spot for each week.

It was just a case of bad release time. I also agree that the film will do extremely well in foreign theaters to more than make up for what happened here. So I'm not worried about the film not making enough money to continue the series. They are already too far committed to VODT to stop now anyway.
 
Well, I was about to make another plea to get back on topic, but it seems that it already happened so I will leave that out.

Do you guys think that we ought to petition Disney to release VotDT in some time other than May, since we all seem to think that timing was the problem?
 
You can try, but it would be a case of amateurs trying to advise experts within the movie industry. Besides, there are probably all manner of factors in play that we have no idea about. I think it would be more fruitful to advise them to stick to the stories more scrupulously, and not mess with characters. Then they'd have a guaranteed fan base who would be happy to spend more and more on their productions. If they keep going on the path they are, they'll alienate them.
 
But if they keep going by the book word for word, for instance, HHB will just be a lot of conversations and walking. And VoDT will end up "OH look it's ___________." That will be interesting for those of us that LIKE the series, but it turns off people who are new to the series. I'm not saying they shouldn't stick to the book at all... I just think that adding a bit of creative energy to it will only help the sales.

I think what is most valuable to ask of us is to support the films. We shouldn't spend all our money seeing them, but we should go and see it at least, and maybe we ought to try and convince people we know to go see it. The majority of us have been in situations where people say "Let's go see a movie- but which one?" and suggesting Narnia will help them get sales up. Maybe they won't get Narnia to number 1... but it's like raising awareness about an issue. If disney won't advertise PC, we can...

And as for contacting Disney, we do have SOME people on this forum with connections (I think?) Maybe we can, in the least send a formal letter/petition asking them abou the timing of the release of Caspian. That might clear some information up, and bring it to their attention that we feel it was a factor, WITHOUT telling them what to do. Keep in mind, this is all suggestions.... you can ignore everything I've said if you want...
 
I don't think anyone wants the movies to be "word for word" from the books -- we liked a lot of the additions to both LWW and PC. What we object to is trampling on the spirit of the books and adding things that would have CS Lewis turning in his grave ...
 
inkspot said:
I don't think anyone wants the movies to be "word for word" from the books -- we liked a lot of the additions to both LWW and PC. What we object to is trampling on the spirit of the books and adding things that would have CS Lewis turning in his grave ...
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Haha, sorry I just picture CS Lewis turning in his grave saying something along the lines of "Oh my book, they've massacred it...." :p

But anyway, yeah, I see what you mean.. but aren't we already discussing this in the "Peter, Noooo!" thread? (And like 12 other threads?) I think this is more about will making the Narnia films MORE true to the books draw in MORE people or scare away more people... I feel like the changes they made MIGHT have had to do with sales in the first place.. and they didn't work, that's what makes it sad. So the question is, if we were to protest these changes- were they the ULTIMATE cause, or were they just a factor? And quite honestly, we're just going to have to trust the new director and producers and such to handle this, that's what's frustrating.

We all want the series to suceed as movies, but the question is, how can WE help it suceed as movies without having to go throught the bureaucracy of the movie business....:confused:
 
For my part, I've no particular interest in seeing the movies succeed. As I mentioned in some threads discussing Lion, I don't buy into this cultural mythology that the best possible thing that could happen to books is to be made into movies. Some books have been terribly mutilated in the transition (e.g. Jackson's Lord of the Rings, and the production of Little Women a few years back that was nothing more than a feminist screed.) I'll applaud the movies to the degree that they properly reflect and respect the spirit of the books. If they violate them, I will not only not support the movies, I will oppose them. Whether the movie franchise succeeds is no skin off my nose; in fact, if they don't do justice to the books, I hope they fail.
 
Unlike PoTW I loved PJ's LOTR, so no comparison there. But like PoTW I do not care if the movies succeed, if they are not going to be true versions of the books we love. I would rather they made no more of them than to continue in this vein of making them stray further and further from the intent of the stories.

I don't think the changes from the book are the reason PC hasn't done as well as LWW. LWW had lots of name recognition and many people who have read it never even connected PC to it because they never read any further in the series. The summer release was also a stupid move. But the movie can still do well internationally, and I hope that it does. Then I believe the new director will put VDT back on track.
 
inkspot said:
LOL! Now we are all wondering ... "Was it my post?"
:)
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Haha, that's the way to go, be inconspicuous. =P

But yeah, I think we all agree the summer release was dumb. And it'll prolly do well overseas, coz I know some of my friends over there are like "PRINCE CASPIAN!" :rolleyes:
 
QA48 said:
On another note, now that I know Michael Apted (sp?) was the one that directed Amazing Graze I feel a lot more relieved about him directing VODT!
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So glad that it helped! :)
Tweetsie said:
I think what is most valuable to ask of us is to support the films. We shouldn't spend all our money seeing them, but we should go and see it at least, and maybe we ought to try and convince people we know to go see it. The majority of us have been in situations where people say "Let's go see a movie- but which one?" and suggesting Narnia will help them get sales up. Maybe they won't get Narnia to number 1... but it's like raising awareness about an issue. If disney won't advertise PC, we can...
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AMEN!! Hear, hear! Disney didn't get with the program and I am most seriously displeased with them! But! We, as loyal Narnians, must step up to the place and do the job that they didn't! Rally people, rally!!!!

As to all of you who are so disappointed. I am so sorry, I wish I could give you all a hug and make you feel better. I feel much the same way about some of it, (yet still LOVE this movie). But I honestly think that you will be very pleased with VODT, so don't lose hope.:)
Courage all!
~Alaina
 
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