White Which=kirtle Lady? Jadis is the Emerald Witch

Thinking about it in a sort of logical way you'd reckon that 'dress' would be more noticeble..'lady in the green dress' is more obvious than 'lady who wears green belt'!
Even though she is a saucy fox..and a terror!
 
rosymole, PrinceOfTheWest thanks guys...it's just kirtle didn't ring any bells and I've read medievil fiction before...so...oh, and my dictionaries didn't have it either...so I didn't bother with the online ones...LOL Thank you.

And yeah, PrinceOfTheWest you're totally right, There is NO Textual evidence of Jadis and the Green Lady being the same...it's not canon.

You can speculate, about other things but, I don't think Mr. Lewis would have missed that at all...I mean...he was writing all the books simultaneously no? At least that's what I got from this site's description of the books oh, and *madglompsnarniafans.com* they suggest using the original publication order for reading the books, the same way they're going to do the films...LOL I love that...its the best order I think...sorry...so off topic, but its an obsession of mine...LOL

Now you mention it rosymole she was a fox (not in the animal sense like she was a serpent...LOL) but in the sense that she had to use allure to lure Rillian away from his quest for vengeance...and she so easily fooled the children. I don't think Edmund ever thought Jadis was beautiful or any of the other children either...hmm...

And on a last note...if Jadis is the devil (satan) couldn't the Green Witch just be the serpent in the garden? *shrugs* Maybe? I know it's a strech...but I'm looking for symbolism in SC.
 
Well, there's always room for finding unintended symbolism such as the snake motif (it would have been very odd to have the witch morph into, say, an antelope). The think to keep in mind is that each book was written independently, and without consideration that there would be one following. Lewis didn't set out to write seven books (like Rowling has); he set out to write one, then when there was demand wrote a second, and so forth. Such sporadic writing makes for a lot of loose ends, and the identity of the Emerald Witch and her connection (if any) to Jadis is one of those loose ends.
 
Well, antelopes aren't menacing...LOL but she could have been something else lethal...like say...a dragon? Or maybe a tiger, or any number of other creatures so that's why I thought maybe you know the serpent wasn't coincidental...JKR is soooooooooooooooooo not coincidental...drives me nuts I swear...but I love it...LOL

But I thought he wrote the books all one after the other and kind of muddled, I mean that's what it said on the site...hmm...surely after the second or third he knew he was going to go on for a bit, no? I dunno. :eek:
 
Hi, WolfsBane, I don't remember seeing you post before, but I haven't had time to be online a lot lately.

I like your style, and especially like your support for publication order when reading the books, it is really the best way.

I am agreeing with you and PoTW that Jadis and the Green lady are different people, but I do not think the serpent motif is coincidence: the serpent in religious works is nearly always evil.

(Wonder what that says to Christians about Harry Potter and the evil snake he's been battling? Could JKR be using biblical symbolism?! I hope so. :p )
 
Hi, WolfsBane, I don't remember seeing you post before, but I haven't had time to be online a lot lately.
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Hello...yeah, I'm new, I don't get on a lot either...LOL :D Nice to meet you.

I like your style, and especially like your support for publication order when reading the books, it is really the best way.
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That's how I first read them...and I'm just stubborn...I can't see them anyother way...chronological order isn't always the best...that's why author's use flashbacks and flashforwards...

I am agreeing with you and PoTW that Jadis and the Green lady are different people, but I do not think the serpent motif is coincidence: the serpent in religious works is nearly always evil.
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Well, I just thought...someone was making an argument for Jadis being the devil, and that made sense, and since The Green Witch isn't Jadis (but I'll get to that in a minute) she might possibly represent another character from the Bible right? She was obviously a serpent, I mean, as I said before she could have as easily been a panther or a full fledged dragon but she wasn't...and I thought...well snake...and she spoke so prettily too how she fooled everyone as much by her words as her appearance...so...maybe? LOL

(Wonder what that says to Christians about Harry Potter and the evil snake he's been battling? Could JKR be using biblical symbolism?! I hope so. )
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Well the Gryffindors are lions ;) and she did say she had read C.S. Lewis, I can't believe she called him dry though...I really think that she meant something else...oh well. But it could also be that it's unintentional on her part...but...that's for another thread... LOL

Okay so about the White Witch/Lady of the Green Kirtle (this is tickling my brain, a green lady...isn't there one in the Arthur legends?) anyways, I just finished The Silver Chair, and I read this:

"And now they all saw what it meant; how a wicked Witch (doubtless the same kind as that White Witch who had brough the Great Winter on Narnia long ago) had contrived the whole thing, first killing Rilian's mother and enchanting Rilian himself."

It's in the Chapter 15 "The Disappearance of Jill" pg. 226 of my paperback.

The important part, I think is that statement...Mr. Lewis says: "...the same kind..." not the same one *shrugs* sounds to me like maybe there's something to be said for that theory she was of the same race...but not that they're the same person.
 
Yeah, I just found that out in another thread. It was an editor being presumptuous - there's zip support in the text for that assertion.
 
This is just an idea that i didn't see posted so i thought i would add it.
Ok well if Jadis is pronounced Jay-dis it sounds like it is derived from the word Jade. Jade is a green rock. And the Lady of the Green Kirtle obvious trate was here green kirtle so there might be some connection
 
Wow, that's a stretch for ya!

Keep in mind that Aslan killed Jadis at Beruna. Despite what the hag in Caspian said about how you can always call back witches, that experiment was never tried - and even if it was, it would not mean a reincarnation.
 
they aren't the same person...the silver chair mentions that the lady of the green...came from the north LIKE the white witch i forget exactly witch chapter but i am sure it was in the silver chair
 
hmmm...not so sure about that. I'm not saying the Lady of the Green Kirtle was exactly the White Witch, but some odd re-encarnation? Perhaps...

I believe that what was written on the ruins of the ancient giant city, which said something like: Though now -insert right words over here- and throneless I shall be, while I ruled the Earth was under me...

...or something like that. I don't believe it was written by an old giant king. Perhaps the Witch wrote it when she created that world Underground?
 
Well, according to what the Witch told Rilian, it was written by an old giant king, so if you are going to say it isn't, you'll have to find support for that somewhere.
 
I know that is what the Lady of the Green Kirtle told Rilian, but here's my reason for thinking there is indeed some deeper connection between this lady and the White Witch: I don't know if the LoTGK is a very reliable source...she could have, very well, lied to Rilian.

And there is another thing as well...we know how Queen Jadis (or the White Witch) was brought to Narnia, how is was all a rather complicated mistake. Wouldn't it take another thing like what happened to Polly and Digory (TMN) to bring the Lady of the Green Kirtle - a witch of the White Witch's kind - to Narnia? I think that wouldn't be very probable, thus it is more likely that there is some kind of connection between both witches, that maybe she is the White Witch in some other form.

Just a theory, though.
 
there is definitely some connection between the two figures but they cannot be the same person as the white witch was killed in LWW.
 
queen_aravis said:
And there is another thing as well...we know how Queen Jadis (or the White Witch) was brought to Narnia, how is was all a rather complicated mistake. Wouldn't it take another thing like what happened to Polly and Digory (TMN) to bring the Lady of the Green Kirtle - a witch of the White Witch's kind - to Narnia? I think that wouldn't be very probable, thus it is more likely that there is some kind of connection between both witches, that maybe she is the White Witch in some other form.

Just a theory, though.
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I agree with you. The only other "occurence" such as Digory and Polly's and the Pevensies + Eustace and Jill would be the Telmarines. So what if the White Witch, while she was away from Narnia (for what 1000 yrs?), got married(well, she just married to get the kid---I'm trying to say this as delicately as possible b/c the presence of children) and left a lineage?

I am writing a fan-fic--about 12 pages in---and it is about the white witch. Coming sometime----lol.
 
Finally! Someone who shares my theories! Yay!

Well, I don't really know if the White Witch had a child, but perhaps she experimented, while in life, with ways to remain in Earth even if she was physically gone...does anyone get that?

Anyway, if you ever read Harry Potter you'll understand what I'm saying: just look at Voldemort and how he remained "alive" even after his body was destroyed.
 
Well, I don't read HP, so I don't know what your talking about.

BUT I understand completely. I know in the Star Wars series, u think the Emperor dies after The Return of the Jedi, but then he returns later in the series because he(as a sith) figured out how to keep his soul from going into the force--or whatever--- and had a ton of clones of himself.

So, maybe the White Witch did that, or she had some kids.
 
You guys are busily importing other mythological strains into Lewis' cosmology. He never wrote that sort of thing. You, of course, are free to imagine what you wish, but please don't go saying that Lewis wrote that sort of thing into the Chronicles, because he didn't.
 
They're not the same people. The book states that The Lady of the Green Kirtle is of the same breed of Northern Witches as Jadis, so they're not the same person.

This person gave a good response to the question

"Reader: In the LWW the witch was destroyed by Aslan. So I want to know how she came back to be the Lady of the Green Kertle in the Silver Chair.

The Professor: The Lady of the Green Kirtle is a different witch altogether than the White Witch. She is also called the Green Witch and Queen of Underland. She is a lot like the White Witch—beautiful on the surface but ugly underneath. But your question is understandable because we never learn where she came from. In Magician's Nephew, Narnia is newly founded by Aslan and Digory accidentally causes the Queen Jadis (from another world) to be brought into Narnia, bringing evil with her. The Tree of Protection protects Narnia for a time—but not forever. Eventually Jadis returns in the LWW and casts Narnia under her spell of winter for 100 years. Then, you're right—she is killed. So one might think that would be the end of evil. But unfortunately, it's not. If the White Witch was the same as Satan—the ultimate source of evil on earth—then you would think that her death would put a stop to witches and the like. But she is not the equal of Satan, just a picture of the presence of evil. And so, we can assume that evil, once entered into Narnia, bred more evil and resulted in evil beings such as the Queen of Underland. Narnia isn't totally delivered from evil until the Last Battle, just as earth will not be totally delivered from evil until after the end times when Jesus returns and defeats Satan once and for all."
http://www.roarofnarnia.com/ask_the_professor.aspx
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So it goes back to The Magicians Nephew when Digory accidently brought the Witch into Narnia and Aslan says "Evil will come from evil" and "As Adams race has done the harm, Adams race should help to heal it", which probably explains why Aslan calls upon the children from our world to help Narnia from the forces of evil, but that's a different discussion :D

While Jadis was alive she created and gathered many enemies of Narnia who would continue to breed and, therefore, continue the reign of evil throughout the land
So, basically, when Jadis (evil) was brought into Narnia, evil would continue to fester in Narnia until the end of its world
 
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