White Which=kirtle Lady? Jadis is the Emerald Witch

I do not think that the Emerald Witch and Jadis are the same person, but I have a theory, pretty far-fetched. Could the Deplorable Word not truly kill people, but simply transfer them to other worlds? Could the Lady of the Green Kirtle simply be another Charnish witch?
 
NO! There is a charatcer page in my horse and boy book and read Jadis's descrption and it said she was the witch in the silver chair...and all witches like Nikibrik said in prince caspian that they can come back 2 life
 
iMerge with an older thread on this topic.

Some back-cover copy on some editions of the books or BBC videos say Jadis and the Green Witch are the same person, but there is nothing in the actual text of the stories which says so.
 
But do you have any evidence from the text that they are the same person? i don't think there is any.
 
well i remember in the silver chair that someone mentioned the white witch and someone thought that maybe that was not her but of the same crew...i forgot who said it though..
 
TrueNarnian said:
well i remember in the silver chair that someone mentioned the white witch and someone thought that maybe that was not her but of the same crew...i forgot who said it though..
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That's from the conversation with the older dwarfs and the owls in the cave after the travellers are rescued - the important point is "of the same crew" - not the same person.
 
Yes, but in Prince Caspian..Nikibrik says there is always a way to call a Witch back..but I dont think it was her? but how else could the emerald witch come into Narnia??
 
Try reading back through this thread, TN - this is all discussed much earlier. You can skim through and just note the salient points. There's been lots of supposition on the point, but no support from the stories themselves that they're the same person. Hasn't prevented people from doing lots of imagining and speculating, but I'm a textual literalist. If Lewis didn't write it, then it wasn't so in Narnia.
 
Elf Of The Grey Havens said:
I do not think that the Emerald Witch and Jadis are the same person, but I have a theory, pretty far-fetched. Could the Deplorable Word not truly kill people, but simply transfer them to other worlds? Could the Lady of the Green Kirtle simply be another Charnish witch?
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Yeah, maybe she's her sister. That would make sense.
 
Elf Of The Grey Havens said:
I do not think that the Emerald Witch and Jadis are the same person, but I have a theory, pretty far-fetched. Could the Deplorable Word not truly kill people, but simply transfer them to other worlds? Could the Lady of the Green Kirtle simply be another Charnish witch?
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Well, if you ignore the fact that Jadis said in The Magician's Nephew that the DW killed everyone but her, and the fact that this took place in Charn before Narnia even existed, and the fact that Aslan spoke in TMN of an evil having entered the new-created world (by which he meant Jadis), and the fact that Jadis was not immortal until she stole the apple and so presumably her sister would not be either (which raises the question of how she would live through the centuries from TMN until SC), and that the descriptions of the Green Kirtle lady don't make her look anything like Jadis, and that the magic she works is quite different, then yes, that theory flies.

It's a bit like a theory that Stonehenge was erected by the Egyptians at the same time as the Pyramids - all you have to do is ignore the lack of evidence for Egyptians being in the country at the time, the difference in architecture, the different dating of the two artifacts, and a few more minor details. In most circles where the word "theory" is treated with any respect though, people would point and laugh. :p

TrueNarnian said:
Yes, but in Prince Caspian..Nikibrik says there is always a way to call a Witch back..but I dont think it was her? but how else could the emerald witch come into Narnia??
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Not sure whom you mean by "her", but it's plain in PC that there was some magic proposed that would either resurrect the White Witch or summon her ghost. That said, when Nikabrik says "Whoever heard of a Witch that truly died?", there is no evidence whatever that he is speaking from personal experience, and it may be only an appeal to superstition and commonly-held belief.

How else could the emerald witch come into Narnia? In a world in which there are Hags and Cruels and Werewolves and retired (or disgraced) stars living quietly on islands in the eastern ocean, there's no difficulty in assuming the existence of a wicked witch or two. She could have been a descendent of the WW, or a student of hers (or someone who followed a tradition started by people who admired Jadis, in the lands where she lived before she conquered Narnia), or... fill in the blanks as you please.
 
White witch=Green kirtle

I do believe that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are one and the same person. Because, 1) Jadis is the only survivor of her world, therfore, there can't be any other charninan witches nor anyone of her same bloodline 2)It does say in PC that you can bring a witch back to life 3) Jadis was always a master at transformation and disguise, which fits with GK turning into a serpent 4) Jadis is the only witch to ever be imortal (meaning that her spirit, not her body is immortal), and it says that GK was around since the beginning of the Narnia, this tells me that it must be Jadis 5) Just because she doesn't look the same as Jadis doesn't mean that she isn't her, she could have taken on a new form 6) The idea of Jadis having descendants is totally out of the question, Jadis was the most evil being in all the world and would never want to share power with anyone, not even her own descendants
Those are all the point I can think of at this moment but I am sure I will think of more. I have never seen the movies but I have always thought the two were the same, only by reading the books.
 
I don't believe they are one in the same person, only of the same 'kind' meaning that they were of the Jinn race, perhaps. And Jadis did have a sister, but she was destroyed along with the rest of Charn when Jadis uttered the forbidden word.
 
the_white_witch said:
I do believe that the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are one and the same person. Because, 1) Jadis is the only survivor of her world, therfore, there can't be any other charninan witches nor anyone of her same bloodline 2)It does say in PC that you can bring a witch back to life 3) Jadis was always a master at transformation and disguise, which fits with GK turning into a serpent 4) Jadis is the only witch to ever be imortal (meaning that her spirit, not her body is immortal), and it says that GK was around since the beginning of the Narnia, this tells me that it must be Jadis 5) Just because she doesn't look the same as Jadis doesn't mean that she isn't her, she could have taken on a new form 6) The idea of Jadis having descendants is totally out of the question, Jadis was the most evil being in all the world and would never want to share power with anyone, not even her own descendants
Those are all the point I can think of at this moment but I am sure I will think of more. I have never seen the movies but I have always thought the two were the same, only by reading the books.
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Taking these in order:
  1. It's true that there was no-one left alive in Charn except Jadis, and no way anyone but her could have come from Charn to Narnia, so this correctly rules out anyone else from Charn being the GKW. But it doesn't rule out the possibility of descendants (discussed later).
  2. All we know from PC is that Nikabrik, the Hag and the Werewolf all believed that a witch could not be truly destroyed. But if there was no other witch than Jadis, how could they have come by this belief? Not by example, obviously. And however they came by it, is there any evidence that the belief was true - or that these three would have successfully brought Jadis back in material form?
  3. Jadis was seen to successfully disguise herself with magic, but not to transform herself into another creature. Also, in her normal form she was strong enough to break iron with her bare hands - and transforming into a serpent would have been less effective than defending herself in Witch-shape.
  4. Where's the quote for GK having been around since the beginning of Narnia? I don't remember that. Until Aslan killed her, Jadis's body was immortal - ageless, that is; clearly she could be killed - as a result of eating the apple from Aslan's garden. There's no evidence that her spirit was any more or less immortal than anyone else's.
  5. Why would she do this? No-one left in Narnia knew what Jadis looked like, except Aslan, and she could hardly have hoped to deceive him if they had ever met. The GK's physical form was plainly much feebler than Jadis's; it was the work of a moment for the Prince to kill her.
  6. Evil and powerful people have been known to want descendants before now - even if only as feeble copies of themselves that they can feel superior to. It might have pleased Jadis to have great^n-granddaughters running about the place, a race of naturally gifted Witches and none of them more than a feeble and short-lived shadow of their immortal foremother. We don't have direct evidence either way, but my point is that either view can be argued for.

@IceMaiden - We have only Mr Beaver's word for it that Jadis was half a Jinn and half a Giantess. It's highly doubtful that he had direct evidence. :)
 
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