Ben Barnes comments on the ‘Narnia’ vs. ‘Harry Potter’ question

316 Comments

1. To me…being a passionate Christian…Harry Potter is full of witchcraft (dark new age witchcraft) where as Narnia is still not so…hmmm, how do I say it? It does not revolve around new age, demon worship.
   And like Ben said…if you are just going from a “is it better?” stand, we don’t know (though I would say Narnia is better. 😉 ) because HP is still new…we know Narnia can stand the test of time…will HP is the question!

   • I totally agree! HP IS full of witchcraft!

     • No there is plenty of religious symbolism and is the struggle between good vs. evil, coming of age, and the values of friendship and love. Don’t start accusing something you have never read, I hate it when people do that. READ THE BOOKS! Then accuse all you want.

       • “the struggle of good vs. evil”

         You mean evil versus a worse evil.

         • Wrong again, sweetheart.

         • Exactly, Jmr7!

         • right, sweetheart. no one has ever joined christitanity because of Harry Potter, but they have increased the practioners of occultism. that’s according to the occultists themselves. And there is no increase in occultism after reading Narnia, but there IS an increase in christians.

           BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM.

         • That’s a bold statement. I need sources of information.

         • yes, mr spock. lol

         • Good one jmr7!!!!!

       • I’ve been told all that I know by people who have read and studied the books. Also, how many books don’t have the struggle between good vs. evil, coming of age, and the values of friendship and love? Most do, but that doesn’t mean that they’re something you should read. Actually, that the HP books have those aspects make them worse, because people subconsciously think “Harry loves his friends. Therefore, he must be good, so nothing he does is bad.” That’s wrong, because he does lie frequently, and for something even worse, casts spells (check out the quote from Deuteronomy in one of my comments below).

         • He doesn’t lie frequently. He keeps secrets because he loves them. Besides Edmund lied and heroes in Narnia did use some methods of magic. They may not have practiced, but certainly used and so does Aslan. Yes he we are symbolizing him as god, but he does use power often today would be referred to as magic. You clearly haven’t read the books so there isn’t much of defense in your case. Of course Harry loves his friends he sacrifices himself in the end to save them like his mother did for him and which had kept him alive for the 16 years of his life. If anyone you should think is evil should be Voldemort and Bellatrix for torturing abusing their power and believing themselves to be inferior then muggles and half-bloods or mixed bloods. Oh and Bhuddist monks have read the books and that they are not evil books. There is evil in it yes, but there is good, love, bravery, loyalty, and many more. So I ask who is evil Harry who literally sacrifices himself for all his friends safety and well-being or Voldemort who kills people right and left simply for his own selfish gain? Tell me! I don’t want any round-about-way of answering the question, just answer straight.

         • The end doesn’t justify the means. From the information you have given me, Harry’s self-sacrifice is a greater thing than Voldemort’s selfishness. However, you have not given me all the information to be had. Deuteronomy says that there is to be no “caster of spells”. Harry casts spells. Therefore, he is going against a direct command from God. Anything supposedly good that comes from these spells is tainted by the sin that was committed to make them happen. Do you support Glozelle’s double sin of murder and treachery when he stabs Miraz in the back, killing him? Yes, Miraz was bad and Narnia was surely better off without him, but that does not forgive Glozelle’s sin, even if it had been made due to pro-Narnia sentiments.
           Also, your example of Edmund lying is completely irrelevant. C.S. Lewis was making a point that in that part of the story Edmund was not a good character. Fortunately though, Edmund reforms. However, your using him for your example in that case essentially the same as saying that Harry’s not bad, after all Judas lied by saying “Surely it is not I, Lord?” C.S. Lewis is making a point that lying is wrong. J.K. Rowling, however, makes Harry’s lies look like a good thing. Just keep this in mind:
           “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor”

         • WHEN YOU WANT TO poison children, you hide the poison in sugar- halloween candy. Then they are disarmed enough to swallow it. You dont try to poison children with healthy broccoli. Likewise, you taint lovely relationships and action and fun with your hidden agenda, occult indoctrination. you can then rationalize with, “but there is so much good in HP”- and overlook the main progress- witchcraft has grown in acceptance and practice among the youth by leaps and bounds. DONT BE A SUCKER, DONT TAKE THE BAIT- SHUN HP!

         • About Harry disobeying a direct commandment from God in the comment below, Destrier, first of all, Harry isn’t real. He’s a character in FICTION. Although, at the same time, he is a role model, in a way…
           You make good points, though, and I find it hard to argue with you. 😉
           Personally, I am not sure where I stand. There ARE such things as under-reacting (forgive me if that’s not a word ;)) and OVERreacting, as well. I niether support HP, nor do I completely HATE it either. I just want to be rational.
           and Angelica- About the Buhddist monk thing, first of all, all due respect to our Buhddist brothers and sisters, but just because THEY think it’s right does not make it right. I am sure there is a majority of Buddhist monks that AREN’T pleased with it either.

         • Actually, I think people will think “Harry is just a human, he can make mistakes, but he figths for the good thing” (love, friendship, freedom, tolerance… these things are good, no matter what). He certainly doesn’t lie frequently, and then only about minor things – or do you want to tell me that you never, ever uttered a single lie? Why you didn’t bring your homework, for example? Never said you were allright when in fact you felt really bad? I’m not trying to say it’s okay, I’m trying to say it’s human. I for one don’t want to read about perfect, godlike beings, I want to read about humans. And as to his casting spells… well… at the time that Deuteronomy was written, cars and mobile phones would be seen as “witchcraft”, as “casting spells”. Think about that.

           By the way, I know quite a lot of “passionate Christians” who love Harry Potter. Because they are not blinded by the flashes of spells, because they see the humanity, the wisdom, the importance and beauty of friendship and love, of fighting for those things.

2. The problem with HP is that it contains witchcraft, and claims that that is a good thing. Witchcraft is directly related to astrology, idolatry, and any other forms of devil-worship. Inviting this into your life, even as “just” entertainment is dangerous. Also, if you are a Catholic, keep in mind that witchcraft, even if it’s “just” entertainment, is strictly forbidden by the Church. In view of all of this, I think it is a wise decision for any Christian to avoid these books. I repeat, the witchcraft contained in them is dangerous for your soul.

   • Believe me when I say, that’s what I was saying I have a problem with. I just didn’t use the term in the story. It does contain witchcraft, but it doesn’t contain *actual* witchcraft. It contains about as much actual stuff as Mary Poppins. My personal point of view is that the use of this term can desensitize the reader to the word, and when they hear it, they think it is okay. In fact, many believe that even so-called “white magic” is okay, based on the name (when it isn’t).

     • incorrect, it contains well researched , reality based occultism, which actual occultists have commented on, remarking that it was deeply imbedded with actual occultic practices and authentic occult history.

       • It does contain real stuff, to be sure, and Rowling even said as much. However, she herself said that she doesn’t believe in it, and went so far as to infer that they were ridiculous for even believing that these things would work.

         • yes, that a nice ploy she uses to gloss over her destructive material.

         • She loved C. S. Lewis and E. Nesbit, but was not such a fan of Roald Dahl. As for the Enid Blyton books, Rowling says she read them all, but was never tempted to go back to them, whereas she would read and re-read Lewis. “Even now, if I was in a room with one of the Narnia books I would pick it up like a shot and re-read it.” (http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/1998/0798-telegraph-bertodano.html)

         • i wouldn’t expect somemone who has made one billion dollars indoctrinating the world in occultism to be real truthful and forthcoming about their motives. lets use a little discernment as to what would look better for her.

         • Yes it does; Author have to do real research on anything and everything! There is real magic and evil witchcraft in it; sorry must disagree!

         • No they don’t. There’s a reason the vampires sparkle and werewolves aren’t humanoid in the Twilight saga. She knows nothing of vampire lore.

       • SO WHAT- occultism in the youth is now accepted rather than avoided, which is just what satan wants and God abhors.

   • That is SO true, Destrier’s Rider!The good guys in HP are doing stuff that the bad guys do in Narnia!

     • I totally agree with all of yous…its really bad for the chidren and for anyone really….I am a Muslim and we also agree and believe witchcraft or practicing it, is forbidden…the same as the Christains believe…I notice there is some similarities between the two…and the narnia series are real classics as Mr Barnes has stated!

       And thats exactly right Fireflower….I love the quote you have written!…Thanks Paul!

     • not to mention she has actually mentioned in interviews she “channeled” the material from an outside force.

       • Could you show me the interviews? You can find all of her interviews at http://www.accio-quote.org/

         • i will, just not on holy saturday.

         • yes, i would like to see this too. And while i appreciate your respect for a Holy day, I cannot help but think you are avoiding the question…

         • no, ive been cooking and cleaning for company. i just did dishes and clened house for 4 hours today and im bushed.

   • it is very wise to avoid HP, as it is intended as a gateway into occultism, aimed at children with no defenses against its indoctrination, and contains actual historical incantations.

   • guys seriously! I have some solid christian friends who LOVE Harry Potter. and I love my friends. Its a personal preference weather or not you like Harry Potter. 😛

     • I did too; how can you stand that?? I mean the bible says to stay away from that stuff; it is part of the temptation in the wrold; hasn’t anyone heard of Live in the world, but not of it?

3. Considering the first HP book came out about 16 years ago I’d say it has staying power yes.

   • Well obviously they’re still releasing material. Staying power can’t be judged until it “sits” for a while. Look at LOTR. The books were around for years, and there were still many great fans. The films have been finished for about six years, but they’re still popular and much-loved. That’s early staying power. If, after HP 7.2 is released, the fandom is as rabid as now, then, and only then, can we say the Harry Potter has real staying power and is truly a classic.

     • Precisely. There hasn’t been an end to Harry Potter in those 16 years. The true test will come in about 3-5 years.

     • a classic in evil indoctrination of children, that is.

       • Agreed; you go girl!!

4. I don’t approve of Harry Potter, and even if I wanted to read it or see the movies, my parents wouldn’t let me. =P

   I get really, really angry when my peers say that HP is so much better than Narnia. As soon as they get to a certain age, many people decide that Narnia is childish. Now, I can’t blame anyone who says that the HP movies are better- at least compared to PC. But that doesn’t mean that Narnia in and of itself is inferior.

   • I think Narnia and HP books are equals but for a different level of readers. The Harry Potter books do not encourage people to practice witchcraft and if one reads the books you will see they show the darkness of magic but also the light of it. I’ve read both Narnia and Harry Potter and I am a Christian and I love both. They both have magic in them so to say that because there’s magic in Harry Potter it’s bad, you’re also saying that about Narnia. Both Narnia and Harry Potter show the distinctions between the good magic and the bad magic but you can’t start making presumptions about Harry Potter if you have not read the books and know what’s in them. If you want to fight against the Harry Potter books, be my guest as it’s your choice but get your facts straight and read the books to know what you’re fighting against. I have read the Harry Potter books several times (because I heartily enjoy them and think already a classic) and there are strong themes focusing on death (how it affects people, how it is horrible to kill, and how that loved ones are still with you even if they’re gone) and love. Love I find is the strongest theme in the whole books focusing on the sacrifices characters do for one another to keep them safe because they love them.

     • There’s a very distinctive difference between the magic in Narnia and the magic in HP. The actual characters in HP (both good and bad) have or obtain magical powers. This is witchcraft. Period. In Narnia, the only characters besides Aslan that can do anything magical are obviously evil. It is also pretty obvious that two of them are witches (Jadis and the Lady of the Green Kirtle) and the other is demon (Tash). Aslan represents God, so of course he can do anything, or work through certain items (such as Susan’s horn). In view of that, “good magic” in Narnia is more like a miracle or divine intervention. That’s the difference, and it’s a very big difference. HP says witchcraft can be good (which it can’t), while Narnia says that witchcraft is always bad.

       • This is clearly a very controversial subject. I apologise in advance if what I have written is offensive, or further divisive.

         I’m not sure these distinctions of always hold up. Is ‘good magic’ – or miricles only from Aslan in Narnia?

         In the Magician’s Nephew a magic apple (which admittedly must have been created when Aslan created the world of Narnia) heals Digory’s mother. It is Father Christmas (possibly as a mediator for Aslan, but not explicitly) who gives the children their Magic gifts. In the Horse and His Boy, the Hermit, Bree, Aravis & Hwin witness the battle through a magic pond – which seems to have no connection to Aslan at all. In Prince Caspian, Glenstorm is a ‘star gazer’ – this sounds awfully similar to Astrology and could be considered encouragement for this kind of thing if we take it too seriously. The star Coriakin uses magic to make the Dufflepuds invisible – it isn’t Aslan who does it.

         I’ve heard plenty of people criticise the Narnian books for presenting magic in a positive light, just as I’ve heard people criticise the Harry Potter series. (A friend actually criticised ‘the deeper magic from before the dawn of time’ as being occultic – I tried to show him that this was actually a reference to the resurrection which I’m not sure he buys.)

         We all know that C.s. Lewis is a Christian and to read his books as occultic is to mis-read them. I haven’t had much exposure to Harry Potter, but I do wonder whether we’re judging these books / movies fairly; or whether J. K. Rowling is similarly misrepresented if we see her as an occultist.

         (Most of the anti-tolerance I’ve seen from Christians has originated because we are fearful that evil will take over the world if we don’t stamp it out first. The apostle Paul said that anyone who fears has not been perfected in love because perfect love casts out all fear. If the Harry Potter books are evil, then we serve and are loved by a God who is far bigger than that evil and we don’t have to fear that he can’t save people in spite of these books. If Harry Potter is not evil, than we’ve wasted a lot of energy, alienating people who may have otherwise been open to the gospel). We are not called to stamp out the darkness in the world, but rather to be lights in the world. People are saved when they come to know Jesus, condemning the things we’re scared of doesn’t save anyone.

         • I really agree with your comment, Tox. I wish there was a “Like” button 😉

         • your summary of the criticism of Harry Potter as” fear -based” is an innaccurate conclusion. It is the promotion of the enjoyment of darkness and occultism that is the objection.

         • Still waiting for your citations. It’s now been 4 days.

       • Tox,
         You’re right. And Dr Cornelius was very definitely a magician yet Aslan doesn’t seem to have punished him for it.
         I think that JK Rowling had no intention of encouraging the occult. In her books it is made clear that, while there are such things as true prophecies, it is idiotic in the extreme to try to dabble in foreseeing the future (and that the acquisition of wisdom is a prerequisite to making any sense of portents). Likewise though there are “ghosts” in her books she makes it clear that trying to contact the dead is absolutely out of the question.
         I think people miss the very simple point that in the Harry Potter books the “magic” is just a straight literary substitute for technology in the real world. It has nothing to do with “witchcraft” as fools try to practise it in real life. There may be some unstable or reckless people to whom the Potter books act as a spur to the occult, though I doubt it, and I expect that in any case where that is said to occur the person in question was looking for trouble already well before Harry came into their purview.
         (I still re-read the Narnia Chronicles much more than the Potter books.)

       • dr coneilius is a “magician” of fairytale magic. HP contains real- life wicca witchcraft. one doesn’t exist, the other does and is condemned by God.

   • Narnia is written in a particular literary style, it is just following that format. it is not “childish”. And adults have written many books for 60 years plumbing the depths of meaning in this series. cs lewis himself said publicly that it felt “handed” to him by a higher source, and wrote itself. Narnia is more classy and highminded, not vulgar and crass like HP.

   • Me too; i think some people say that just because it is new and ‘cool’and everyone watchs it!!! Why can’t people see it is wrong….Lord , please knock some sense into people!!

     • amen. CS. !!! teenagers enjoy HP more because it is harsher and more gory. which makes it cooler in this world.

5. There was a mistake in the article. While J.K. Rowling is a fan of Narnia, he choice of doing seven books was based not upon Narnia, but upon the fact that british boarding schools tend to do a 1st-7th year setup, and harry potter is esstentially a british boarding school series, that just happens to have elements of fantasy (in a way that Narnia was a Wartime series that just happened to have elements of fantasy.)

   I didn’t read all the narnia books when I was younger, mainly because it often seemed to me like he wrote them independently of each other, instead of as a unified whole, but I can recognize the thoughtfulness and depths of Lewis’s writing, having studied some of his other writings as a adult. I think the strength of Narnia lies in its relatability of characters – We can feel for the young protaganists, and be swept up by their journey and trials.

   Harry Potter does have that element too. You have to try hard not to feel for Harry, Ron, and Hermione, because it is hard not to find things about oneself that manifest in the personalities of the three main characters.

   Both Rowling and Lewis excell in creating vivid settings and characters to inhabit them. They both craft engaging plots that get you on the edge of your seat, and your heart pumping faster as you can’t wait to turn the next page.

   Harry Potter doesnt actually contain witchcraft in it. There is no relation to Rowling’s useage of mock-latin, and what pagan’s practice and believe in. Her magic is more scientific than mystical *though the horcruxes do explore the concept of the soul, and the evils of murder from a more spiritual point of view.* Kind of like the magic in Narnia, Rowling draws from mythology, but makes it her own, just as Lewis and Tolkein did.

   To claim that Harry Potter is Demonic, or anti-christian requires you to have very little knowledge of christanity itself. Even from the first book, the christian parrallels were apperent to christian scholars. She echos christian symbolisem throughout the series, echos christian writings, and even has bible quotes that pop up in one scene, which she uses to make a point about the nature of life after death, loss, and the power of accepting death.

   Many christians today now read harry potter, because they got over all the lies (oh, they drink each others blood in rituals, they summon satanic demons to beat up and murder their rivals, they molest each others, etc *all of which people claimed about the books, but none of which are true*) They now see the value in the books, which explore the power of love, friendship, courage and bravery, and the battle between good and evil, Which Narnia too explores, though sometimes with less subtlety (but lewis was writing at a time when children were less valued and trusted to comprehend as children are viewed to be today, which is a matter of time, not lewis’s character, since he was more direct even then most authors of his time.)

   Even though we havent had a new book from the harry potter arena since Beedle the Bard, the harry potter books are still going strong… and you don’t sustain a series of books for well over ten years, sell nearly half a billion copies, and spawn one of the most successful film franchises of all time without staying power. Harry Potter is not going to disappear anytime soon. it has already proven itself well.

   People will still be talking about Narnia, Harry Potter, and Lord of the Rings in 60 years, as exemplary british fantasy.

   • I actually read a true quote from Rowling herself, in which she stated that she chose to do seven because of Narnia. It also lined up perfectly with the school system. I will try to find the quote for you.

     • In a load of research, I haven’t found the quote. I will have to alter the article when I have a chance until I can find where I read it.

       • I have also heard something about that too!….where J.K Rowling did indeed do it for her honour of the narnia series!…If I find the quote, I’ll post it here!

       • Where do you stand on all this, Paul? You said u were a youth pastor for 15 years now…what do YOU think? There is no right or wrong answer, really, it’s based on your personal opinion…

         • First, I’d like to thank you and everyone who commented about how hard I’ve been trying to keep the peace. It’s difficult, when it comes to an issue such as this.

           Personally, these are my thoughts, in brief.
           1) Hate the use of “Witchcraft” and that there are (Rowling admitted) spells taken from actual source material. This was shocking to me, to read, as I had heard that she made up all of them. Apparently that was not the case.

           2) I enjoy some, but not all of the films, but have never read any of the books. The ones that I like are 3, 5, 6, and 7. It’s likely that I’ll enjoy 8 as well.

           3) I think it comes down to good parenting, and a solid foundation of faith. For instance, there’s a woman that was turned on to witchcraft from reading Narnia. Is that rare? I don’t know, but I’ve yet to hear someone openly claim that Harry Potter did as much, yet someone was from Narnia. She might have bigger problems, though, and it’s very sad to see.

           4) I think that, because it’s literature, people can usually sort things out. It’s a train that’s already been moving for over 16 years, and it’s about to reach the end of the line, with regard to new material (unless Rowling does write more). We can choose to get on board, or stay off, but one way or another, it’s not going to pull you in a direction that you don’t want to head.

         • sure Paul 🙂 I can imagine it’s tough to have to put up with all this without “taking sides”.
           My response to your thoughts:
           1) Interesting, “actual source material”? are we talking ACUTAL spells? I thought the same thing myself, actually. Very interesting, however…
           2) I will agree on that much. i have seen bits and pieces of the films, not enough to understand the general storyline, but I will say that while the subject matter is contraversial, I appreciate the artistry and work that was put into the movies.
           3) Definitely. My parents have seen one of the movies, and ever since then, they did not want my brother or I to watch them. They said that eventually, we will watch them, because they ARE very entertaining, but I understand what you mean. About the woman, however, I do not think it was Narnia that turned her to witchcraft. It could have had more or less an impact on her, it was probably other influences in her life.
           4) And yes, I agree with this too. We can at least appreciate the hard work that Rowling put into HP as an author.

     • more likely in an effort to counter narnia.

       • False. She enjoys the Narnia books and would read one in an instant if she found one on a bookshelf in a room she was in.

         • i know she says she enjoys them . but watch what she DOES, NOT what she says. she thinks CS Lewis was sexist , amongst other misunderstandings. if she doesn’t even get the “Susan issue “, how much elsee is distorted in her mind she doesn’t reveal?

     • creepy!

       • I don’t think C.S. Lewis would be very pleased!!!

   • that is an absurd claim, that to claim HP is demonic requires you to have very little knowledge of christianity. that is jut a veiled insult with zero logic.

   • HP is still going strong, just like sin is still going strong. that is not evidence that it’s a good thing.

     • Hold up one second, I understand your hate for Harry Potter, I really do. But I would not go as far to say it is a sin.

       • well, yeah..i think it is sinful to do anything that is against Gods word…and magic and witchcraft is…no matter how good it might seem or if it has good quotes. God can’t touch or do anything with it(witchcraft,sin,evil…ect!)….thats my point.

       • I don’t “hate” harry potter. I don’t believe reading it is a “sin”. From my research on it and its origins and material matter, I strongly believe it was inspired by the dark side, as a lure for the innocent and spiritually unformed . It has borne bad fruit, making our young people less hesitant and more oblivious toward evil. Topics that would once have had people crossing themselves and making short prayers to God when they heard them are now considered “entertainment”. St. Padre Pio, the Italian monk who bore the wounds of christ for 50 years before his death in 1968 wouldn’t even look at ANY film, saying “the devil is in it!” This was a priest who had many miraculous gifts, including reading of souls . What was once also used for making healthy material like the TEN Commandments and Ben Hur is now cranking out rapes, murder . torture, necromancy, fornication and more as “fun” subject matter to sit and munch popcorn to. The fact that people are so spiritually clueless these days that they are bringing 8 and 6 year olds to these movies is shocking. The communist/Marxists bragged back in the mid 20th century that they could bring down capitalism in 50 years just by introducing debasing music and resulted in now 2 generations that are so callused that they can tolerate such harsh material and ENJOY it. The same is happening in movies. Go listen to music before 1960 and movies before 1965 and see how much gentler they are, If HP had been introduced in 1940, it would have been run out of town, people would see that it reeked of evil. Today in the world of Freddy Kruger and Nine inch nails, people bring their 8 year olds TO it. This is the slippery slope down to Sodom and Gomorrahville.

6. If J.K. Rowling say she LOVES narnia so we should say she is a narnia fan right?

   Ok a narnia fan with imagination wants to follow lewis steps and create a book why not? Then she creates Harry potter, based on lewis steps, making it similar, on some ways.

   If any of us narnia lovers (fans) write a book, dont you think the base will be Lewis? Thats what she did! She had… maybe luck that lots of people liked? Or its just the new way the world could re read narnia? Maybe she wanted to re create it as with the new days words? Based on new problems? But with same solution.

7. I hate Hp because of witchcraft!!!! I would never watch it!!
   What makes me angry is that one of my closest friends LOVES HP when I hate it. Narnia has a little bit of sorcery, but not like HP when it’s based on every thing. I hate that Narnia has a little bit of that nonsense!!!!

   • Narnia does not present sorcery as a good thing, that’s the difference. It portrays sorcery as an evil to be avoided.

     • that is meant as a lesson, which is a good thing. so don’t hate it, understand it’s there for a purpose. Not to turn kids on to sorcery, which HP has done.

       • I’m still waiting for a citation of a source on this account.

         • hang on honey, im still dying eggs and doing dishes- lol

   • I don’t even look at it in stores! And i am not crazy;but i notice that the more i look at it,it kinda tugs at me like, …”it isnt that bad….it is this or that, but it is good!”…that was satan talking ,hello!

8. No offense, but it still boggles my mind that so many Christians do not read/watch Harry Potter because it has “withcraft.” I mean, the moral of the story is so blindingly obvious. I’m not a Christian, yet I still picked up on a lot of Christian allegory in the series. Harry Potter has inspired a generation of children and teenagers to read more, and made them more aware of the dangers of apathy, bigotry, and prejudice. It has made millions of children and teenagers better adults. That’s magic.

   As for the books, I’ve read both. And from a non-biased point of view, the Narnia books are significantly inferior to Harry Potter. Thematically, Potter tackles much more mature and adult subjects (especially in the later books) without ever coming across as forced. As anyone who has read the series, the most powerful thing in the wizarding world is the redemptive power of love. Love is the very foundation on which the Potter series is built. Maternal love, platonic love, and romantic love are all endlessly present. Genocide, bigotry, racism, loyalty, friendship, death and how to deal with it (a major theme in HP) are some of the many themes in Harry Potter. It’s a classic coming of age series. Whether you’re 10 or 90, you’re bound to relate to one of the myriad of characters. Besides, I dare you to name one character in Narnia who has 1/10 of the depth Severus Snape has.

   Narnia books, sorry to say, are rather childish and very preachy. Lewis is a great storyteller, but it seems to me his ideas are more important than the characters, which is a major fault of his. He has a great imagination, but honestly, his messages often come off as very in your face and it lacks the maturity of the Potter series.

   Taking the Potter and Narnia books, in my humble opinion, it’s vividly transparent that the former created something much more grand than the latter. Rowling created an EXTRAORDINARILY detailed universe, and while Lewis’ universe is nothing to be shrugged at, it simply pales in comparison. And plot? Potter has a much more intricate plot, and the characters are far more dimensional, gray, and affecting.

   • cs lewis was a famous scholar. it’s not like he didn’t know how to write detailed material- try reading his space trilogy” if you want something filled with description. He wrote narnia in the classic fairy tale format, which has its own traditions, including clean, bare bones writing, the “once upon a time” intro, the particular formats based on celtic, greek, etc myths. not to mention all the biblical allusions. try reading a few commentaries on the narnia series and you will find its YOU that doesn’t realize the depths of his material. there are college courses that delve into his narnia writings, they are that rich in meaning.

     In contrast, most learned scholars mention HP is like pulp fiction trash.

     • Lewis was a scholar and it’s just that it seems childish to you.whether you’re 10 or 90 you can see yourself in the Narnia series too. And we need to understand that HP characters are entirely different from Narnia.
       I have not read or seen HP and has no intention of doing so just because I don’t like the sound of it.@Noctis: You said that you’re not a christian. I hope that you’re searching for the truth

   • if you want to see the deep hidden meanings in narnia that you are not currently picking up on, try reading the 3 commentary books by Dr. Devin Brown,— and A Family guide to narnia: Biblical Truths in CS Lewis’ The Chronicles of Narnia. by Christin Ditchfield. You will be blown away and impressed by how much content and how masterfully he wove in the subtext. It will no longer seem “childish, ” but you will recognise Narnia for the masterpiece it is.

9. Where to start? Hmm… A few years back, in about fourth grade, I was looking for a “middle schooler” type series. I decided to try Harry Potter. The first two books I liked, third was okay, but at the fourth book I stopped 200 pages in. Why? First, the plot was confusing. Second, it was quite a bit violent, considering this is targeted at preteens/teens. Here’s a great link below that somebody wrote that I agree with.
   http://www.thelionscall.com/articles/harry_potter.cfm
   Harry Potter could possibly be anti-Christian from my view. Most children know that Harry Potter is fantasy. J.K. Rowling even stated she has never had a child tell her they want to be a wizard. I certainly don’t. But the issue I have is there are really demons and evil out there. I’ve even seen Satanic bibles in our Barnes and Noble! Some kids could think that’s cool, and there’s a possibility that could drive them to Satanics.
   Now, in Narnia, our main child characters never practice magic. Lucy tried, and Aslan stops her just in time. Discipline and punishment is visible in Narnia much more than in HP. In the first book, Harry disobeys a teacher, and for that… joins the Quiditch team! Edmund follows the WW, and he almost DIES. Characters in Narnia sure learn better things from their mistakes.
   Overall, I would not have children under 14 read the novels until they understand witchcraft is not okay.
   P.S. I can’t remember it exactly, but in The Magician’s Nephew, there is a line about “children shouldn’t know things about magic” or something, supporting that if shown the wrong way, children can be lead to witchcraft.

   • At least you read or tried to read the HP books. Most Potter fans have noticed the change in quality and material through the seven books. However in time you have to realize that it is no longer directed towards tweens/preteens after Prisoner of Azkaban. Overall the books seem to be directed towards a generation starting from preteen to the beginnings of adulthood. If you look through that type of lens, it could make understanding the change in quality a bit more. This is a suggestion because I never read the books through the lens of an adult looking at it from a Christian stand point or what-should-my-child-read stand point. I read them as I grew up from 11 to 17. Just like Harry!

     • You prove my point right in that statement above. Children ages 11-17 do not have the experience or discernment to understand that they are being indoctrinated. That is why it is especially sick this woman has targeted the young audience with their open minds and twisted them to be favorable to subject matters that would have easily been exposed as spiritually dangerous a generation ago. And starting the books as more child friendly, and then progressively turning darker and more violent was a classic “bait and switch ” move which ought to raise a red flag right there. Anyone born after 1980 has no idea how society was so much gentler and kinder previously. The devil has darkened people’s conciousness slowly and surely and now you have 6 year olds watching movies with people getting their faces ripped off and drinking blood instead of kinder, gentler pursuits. There is a whole generation of young people now that think this dark, harsh material is the normal standard. SOCIETY WAS NOT LIKE THIS BEFORE AND NO ONE WOULD HAVE even LET A SERIES LIKE HARRY POTTER IN THEIR HOUSE BEFORE, never mind intentionally filling their kids minds with it. As an adult who was raised in society before it was so antichristian, morally twisted and hostile to goodness, you can see the darkness seeping in. It’s very sad.

       • You didn’t get my point.

         • you are not a mind reader.

       • What you’re saying, in a way, is that teenagers cannot discern but adults can. Exagerration does not help anyone.

         • teenagers of today will be mightily surprised when they are senior citizens and realize they didnt know diddly squat . youu’ll believe that only when u experience it for yourself.

         • High Queene ShellyBelly: I appreciate you sharing your views on what you know is right and wrong, but putting down other people in order to express them is exactly what they said NOT to do.

         • please do not read hostility into that comment. She said I was exagerating, and I m saying it is a natural development of life that when you are a teenager, you are filled with energy and boldness. Scientists have discovered that the brain is not actually mature until age 25!! by the time you are 50+ , you are a completely different person and realize that you were not as worldly as you thought you were before 25. This subject has been famous since the writings of the ancient greeks. you read into my statement and interpreted it as an insult and it was not directed to her personally , as I stated “teenagers of today”. plural – and general.

10. The truth is both Harry Potter and narnia have witchcraft, yes. But what makes them different, the fact that in Narnia witchcraft is evil but in harry Potter it’s a “tool” that can be used both as good and evil. That is why I think Harry Potter is very dangerous to get involved with. God said that Sorcery and witchcraft is evil, but harry potter implies that it can be good. By this time most people complain saying “it’s not telling you to practice witchcraft”. Maybe it isn’t, but isn’t implying that it’s good a sin in itself? And if peoples tart to think it’s good then that might lead to them “experimenting” with it, which is extremely dangerous and has destroyed many people’s lives. I don’t like any comparison between Harry Potter and Narnia because of one simple point. Narnia is based on christian principles, Harry potter is based on satan’s principles, and I think that makes them SO different that there not comparable.

    Has anyone here read or heard of the book “Out of Darkness” by Ben Alexander? It’s a very good book and it talks about a man’s escape from a life of practicing Sorcery and he tells about lots of experiences at seances and many other things. Half the book is devoted to telling about current popular things in society that are satanic and are very dangerous, one of those is harry Potter.

    Here’s an article his website has posted about harry Potter:
    http://www.espministries.com/Topic-Harry%20Potter.html

    If you’d like to know more about the book I encourage you to buy it here, it’s worth the money trust me:

    http://www.espministries.com/resources.html

    • excellent articles, thank you.

      • Ur welcome 🙂

        • I agree with you totally Caleb.Thanks for the articles. We had a children’s\teens programme some time back and a pamphlet was given outtitled ‘HP :in the clutches of Satan’
          Strong believers need not worry over it muchbut the teenage is a time when u get influenced too easily and that is a danger that HP can inflict.

11. If you haven’t read the Harry Potter books then don’t claim it to be witchcraft. Say you believe it is because that is better then stating it as a fact, when it is not true. As I said earlier read the HP books and pretty much all of you have read the narnia ones so the battle is already half won. If you haven’t ready the Harry Potter books then your witchcraft argument is not valid. They both have the same equal lessons to be learned like love and friendship.

    I personally believe that Harry Potter will become a classic and will stand the test of time and it has shown that very well through the audiences it has gathered from 10 year olds to 50 year olds. On top of this there is already a theme park in Orlando Florida based on the magical series. I wish they could have a theme park for Narnia and Lord of the Rings too, but I’m grateful that there is one to prove HP’s worth.

    • when you are 50, you’ll more easily see through JK Rowling agenda.

      • and i caution anyone, do NOT read HP, you will give negative spiritual forces legal permission and access to your life, according to spiritual laws. Renounce HP, and get any related material OUT OF YOUR HOUSE. listen to actual ex-occultists and protect yourself by following THEIR advice.

        • I can except your views on the matter and giving your own little preachings. However, I think advising people not to take other people’s advise is just wrong.

          • I think you mean “accept”, not except, and “advice”, not advise. 2 different meanings. and I was saying to do some research on the advice EX-OCCULTISTS and ex-new agers have to say about the hidden dangers they experienced and then had to fight to escape. there are plenty of people warning about Hp, Twilight, His Dark materials, and more leading them down an unpleasant path. It never hurts to be informed BEFORE you delve into this dark side. I wouldn’t call that preaching, it’s called being responsible and mature about what you dump into your or your kids heads.

            And why is it people should’t listen to my advice to be sensible , but should blindly obey yours to be foolhardy? when people are under 25, they sometimes think they know it all, till they get older and realize just how rash they were.

          • Yes I meant accept and advise. That’s not what I meant. I mean that you can make your own advice, but don’t advise people not take other people’s advice. I never told people not take your advice. I only made my own and you made your own, but making an advice to against another’s is just rude. Let people decide who’s advice they want to take. Mine or yours. Understood?

          • The second sentence is preparing for the rest of my post. Not with the first sentence. I really wish they could give a delete or edit button here it would really help.

          • no, belittling people about their “little preachings” is meant to be demeaning, and therefore rude. I’m just trying to get people to open their eyes, like you would before someone gets started with a ouija board, for example, if they dont’ know some people have actually been possessed or had frightening pyschic phenomenon or hauntings start from using a ouija board, it is a kindness to inform them. then if they decide to go ahead and play with fire, at least you have given them the opportunity to protect themselves. it’s not meant as censorship, it is a kindness to inform someone of a danger they may not be aware of.

        • Only if you actually believe in all the magic. It does not open spiritual forces legal permission to do up your life. They can do it any time they want, and if they do, it’s because Satan wants to knock you away from your relationship with Jesus. You give more power to those forces by panicking about Harry Potter being a so called “magnet” for demons, etc. What you should be doing, if you don’t agree about Harry Potter, is realizing that your attitude can drive people away from God and that you should trust God to fulfill his plan whether or not it goes with your opinion. The only true judge of all of this is God. And from my viewpoint, I think from what all Rowling has gone through in her life and her success with her books will bring her closer to God.

          • I personally know a world renowned exorcist from the vatican. He has witnessed people levitating and crawling up walls while under demon posession. Stories that make your hair stand on end. It is wise to be prudent and listen to people who have many years experience in the field of occultism and people that have escaped from heavy duty witchcraft use, people who have actual experience in these fields. they have more first hand knowledge of what stuff is out there in the real world than your average schoolkid.

12. De que una saga sea mejor que otras es solo la perspectiva de la persona, yo soy fan de las dos sagas pero me gusta mas HP, y veo que muchos se ponen a hablar mal de HP sin haberse leeido un libro o ni siquiera haber visto una pelicula de la saga y eso me molesta porque solo estan demostrando que son unos prejuiciones y que solo se dejar llevar por lo que dicen los demas.

13. Personally I don’t care if HP has witchcraft or not, I just don’t find the series all that interesting. The witchcraft ‘argument’ is irrelevant to me. As far as I’m concerned HP is too popular now to not stand the test of time. The differences between Narnia and HP are great. Narnia is considered high fantasy where the Narnian World does not take place in a modern setting – rather, a fairy tale-esque medieval setting. Even its ‘modern’ setting takes place in 1940’s England, which also has a nostalgic feel. By contrast, HP is what is considered contemporary fantasy, which is incorporated in the modern setting. I think that makes HP more popular, given that youth can relate to it more. It doesn’t make any better than the other – it just makes them different. If anything, HP should be compared more with Twilight, while Narnia will have to share more in common with Lord of the Rings. The magic argument is nonsense, as magic is a major element of both worlds. The pot calling the kettle black, if you will.

    • excellent points.

      • ditto

14. I’d also like to add that medieval movies (in general) don’t tend to do as well as fantasy movies setaim a modern time when it comes to popularity and especially the box office – indicating that Narnia has is at a slight disadvantage to HP when it comes to finding an audience.

15. When I first read the Harry Potter books, I thought they were very contemporary: magic wands had a lot in common with credit cards, which by invisible means make things come into your possession. I could see why people would be scandalized by them.

    Since then, I have decided (I could be totally off-base) that Rowling is an extremely apt pupil of Lewis. In defending fantasy and science fiction from the charge of just being “mindless, escapist trash” Lewis said there were two kinds of escapism. The first we might call “lottery ticket” escapism: fast cars, beautiful people, luxury yachts, posh hotels and private jets. In this category, Lewis also put school stories where the awkward hero scores the winning goal and gets the popular girl. The odds that these things will happen in real life, of course, are so remote they might as well be in a galaxy far far away. Technically, they “could” happen, but for Lewis that only made such stories even worse for the soul.

    The other kind of escapism, the good kind, was fairy tale escapism, away from this dull, gray, mixed-up world, into a world of stark moral choices, in which the heroes must choose the better side and struggle to overcome their own fatigue and character flaws and weaknesses. For Lewis, this sort of story was needed medicine. The Chronicles of Narnia, by their longevity, are certainly a fantastically successful example.

    What Rowling accomplished, I think, is to artfully weave together these two forms of escapism. She lures you in with wonderful magic wizbangs, only to then confront you with stark moral choices. She sets the story in modern England, but one magically concealed and guarded by a government bureaucracy (an impenetrable defense if ever there was one). She thus persuades us that all of this “could” happen, like in a Harold Robbins novel, only to sweep us unto a battle between real good and real evil.

    We first enter the magical world through Diagon Alley, a shopping mall. Only later do we meet the Mirror of Erised (Desire spelled backwards), the ultimate window shopping experience, and we learn that men have wasted away in front of it. Later, we meet house elves; who could not use one of those? Then the muggle-born Hermione brings up the issue of slavery. In Goblet of Fire, we meet portkeys; I need one connected to the beach! Only then, a portkey becomes the jaws of a deadly trap. And the last book, beautiful and deadly Deathly Hallows become the center of the struggle.

    As I say, I could be off base, but these interwoven fantasies, bad and good, might just be what gives HP their power. I agree it is very uncertain how HP will hold up, but it depends how many other books approach the moral center that both CoN and HP possess.

16. My grandfather was a church minister here in England and made a point of highlighting the Christian themes found in Harry Potter when many church groups were going crazy over the witchcraft ideas of the series.

    What is frustrating is that many of those who avoid HP due to witchcraft are adopting a ‘black and white’ approach, forgetting that everything is really shades of gray. Not once is the source of the magic alluded to, let alone is it suggested that it is the work of the devil.

    As some have already pointed out, Love is the most powerful magic in Harry Potter and it is the reason Harry survives evil numerous times – his mother gave up her life to protect Harry and that Love allows Harry to triumph over evil, just as Jesus gave his life so that we also may triumph.

    Some of the magic in HP is very, very dark (a character splits his soul to sustain his spirit) but so is the world in which we live in. Opponents of HP’s witchcraft need to come to terms with the fact that the Lord and his Love for us can be described as magical. Witchcraft and wizardry are words our kind has invented to describe something, not realistic forces of the Devil.

    Harry Potter, along with The Da Vinci Code, has done great things for Christianity over their years on our bookshelves; they have highlighted a religion, a way of life that I fear is slowly being forgotten. Debate over The Da Vinci Code allowed many to discuss religion in ways they never would. If that book has led one person to follow Christ, then tell me how it could possibly be a bad thing? Even if one non-believer merely contemplated God because of a book like that, it is a great thing.

    When my Grandad used Harry Potter to strengthen my religion, he left me a sermon that I have never forgot and to this day my faith is stronger because of the lesson my grandfather identified in that book. Do not say that it is a source of evil when for me it has been a source of faith.

    So many seem to want to hide from anything that is related to dark forces such ad witchcraft and wizardry, including Harry Potter. May I remind you that the Devil is at work like the dark forces in that book series; if you believe in good, you believe in bad. If you believe God to exist, then you accept the Devil to exist also; we can’t hide from Satan, nor can we avoid him like as if he were a book about witchcraft and wizardry.

    I prefer Narnia over Harry Potter because Rowling is often writing to please fans, and therefore dies not match Lewis’ bravery. But they both have a quality of magic as well as Christian allegory; to shun one and accept the other is hypocrisy.

    • are you kidding me? DaVinci Code PROMOTING christianity?? that pack of lies has driven thousands of people AWAY from christianity. go to www. catholic.com, there’s a whole section on the lies of DaVinci code.
      CS Lewis was making a big point when he wrote, The Last Battle- that christians would become blind and passive and ripe for con artists mingling Christanity with whatever the latest fad was. unschooled in the the doctrines of their faith, they were unable to defend themselves from disguised attacks of evil. Voila- today we have christians defending dark works like Harry Potter and DiVinci code, unable to discern they were created to undermine christianity. In Last battle, you see this portrayed in the creation of “Taslan” and the narnians (christians) were too gullible to see through it. (much to their demise). the bible says “Have NO PART in their works of DARKNESS” , and “if you are lukewarm( mingling with evil) I WILL SPIT YOU OUT OF MY MOUTH”. TASLAN= True God polluted by False God swallowed by the naive and uninformed.
      We don’t HIDE from evil, we IDENTIFY IT when we see it lurking and FIGHT IT.

      • I totally agree with you high queen.

        Harry potter also does not have good morals, it promotes revenge terribly bad. it also shows witchcraft as if it’s a normal tool to play with and use. In fact, a book not saying that witchcraft comes from the “devil” is THE VERY REASON it is bad. If it had said witchcraft came from the devil then people would know it was wrong. But HP presents sorcery as something to test, try, use for your own benefit and others. When the Bible forbids us ever even getting close to sorcery and witchcraft. It’s VERY dangerous, I’m sure there are many people who watched/read HP and decided to “try” witchcraft. it’s very enticing and I can’t see how ANYBODY who’s “supposedly” a christian would write a series of books based off of something forbidden by God. And don’t say Narnia is based off of Magic as well, it actually isn’t. The “magic” is symbolic of the spirit world, it doesn’t “refer” to actual sorcery. Plus “good” never uses magic, only evil does.

        • Revenge? Harry Potter does not encourage revenge but an effort to fight evil and the power of love.

          • you mean “for” the power of love. That is so true. Though Harry does have revenge feelings after Sirius Black and Dumbledore died, but in the end he didn’t vanquish evil through revenge, but for the reasons you stated. Then again we all feel the desire for revenge if we had a loved one killed, but we shouldn’t let that revenge turn us into a monster and become the sole reason of our desire to kill or vanquish evil. I feel a wave Xena washing over me again.

        • you have a good head on your shoulders, caleb. it is difficult to see bible believing christians that cant see a major ploy in front of their faces.

          Satan wraps his poison in ENJOYABLE THINGS, like enchanting novels. IT IS TO SEDUCE YOU AND WEAKEN YOUR POWERS OF DISCERnMENT. In the bible , they who had books on magic had their consCiences CONVICTED and they BURNED those books. BURNED them, not paid good money to see them made into movies.

          there is so much darkness in today’s entertainment world, even christians are used to the semidarkness and darkness, When you think witchcraft , murder , and torture are subjects for entertainment purposes, , your concscience has been darkened. very disturbing.

          • Yes, and in the bible;in bible days…if you were seen doing witchcraft,selling charms…ect you would be killed!

17. Harry Potter is fiction. The majority of us can figure out that the whole magical world that Rowling created is pure fiction. There is enough literary distance that when we close the book we come back to reality, and realize that Rowling spins a good tale and nothing more. We all can find evil where we want but that is not Rowling’s intent. When Rowling wrote the stories she was obviously very moved by her mother’s death. I am much more concerned about Halloween, an actual pagan holiday, than I am the Harry Potter series. God gave us choice. Do we see the good or evil around us? Which do you see? God’s love or Satan’s evil.

    Two men looked from prison bars,
    One saw mud; the other saw stars.

    • do your research , JK did, her books are all steeped in actual occultism,and its accuracy has been publicly confirmed by practicing witches.

      • “Two men looked from prison bars,
        One saw mud; the other saw stars.”
        Beautifully said Roger

    • 2Thessalonians 1:22 KEEP AWAY FROM EVRY KIND OF EVIL

      • Jesus walked with, ate with and spoke with tax collectors and sinners.

        • thessalonians was directed to children of God to not be involved with commiting evil.

          Jesus was human sinners superior, he was converting them . Not partaking in evil practices.

          • Jesus was 100% human and 100% divine. He was also a revolutionary. He was a living example of what to do when you’re spiritually strong enough. We’re not to judge others, right? So if we turn our backs on our brothers and sisters that have fallen into sin, then we’re basically doing just that. There are people that aren’t strong enough to go to a party and be an example. But there are people who are, and who just might be able to influence someone else to be strong as well. In over 15 years in youth ministry, I have known many many Harry Potter fanatics. I didn’t condemn them for it. Instead, I made sure their walk with God was a good one. Good is more powerful than evil. They know there’s a spiritual war going on for their souls. If you’ve read my thoughts on the series posted here, you know that I am not a fan of the use of Witchcraft, but I also know it’s not going to twist anyone that I have spoken to.

          • Amen, brother Paul. 😉
            Thank you for your understanding.

        • TO CLARIFY: Nowhere have I said I condemn HP readers. I am speaking out about opening your eyes to the creeping in of darkness into our entertainment world, to the detriment of our souls- creating confusion and spiritual apathy.

          I recommend that people into Harry Potter: research what CREDENTIALED EXPERTS are warning about concerning HP. That they should logically set aside their defense of HP and their affection for a second and listen to highly educated adults in the studies of abuse of the occult have to say about it. That there are certain dangers associated with such materials.

          next point- we ARE to condemn EVIL, and we are to point it out when we see it, otherwise we are to be held accountable for our brethren’s fall. I.m sure someone has that bible passage number.

          next point- witchcraft has twisted untold numbers of people going back eons, and it is enough of a sin that God wiped out whole cities to cleanse them of it, it was so offensive to him. why lead our children into being entertained by it ?

          • Thank goodness!….that’s all i am saying!

    • Okay you said it! MAGIC= witchcraft!…..good and evil don’t mix! GET THE POINT!

      • In that case, Narnia is demonic and evil…

        • No it is simblism not magic….are you saying that when Jesus rose from the dead it is magic? No, of course not! It is a belief….ect

        • narnian magic and miracles are representative of God’s almighty power. any other magic depicted is make believe , classic fairytale magic. What is in HP is actual Wicca- occult witchcraft. . that is condemned in the strongest terms by God as it is a religion that has false gods (the male horned god and the female goddess). Real wicca is an insult to God as it is a sin against the 1st commandment- the biggest sin possible. That’s why it’s labeled !st, guys. That is why it is disturbing that it is being introduced to children and has led to a big rise in interest in the occult the the past 15 years.

          the magic in Narnia and HP are EXACT OPPOSITES.

18. I’m a Christian and a huge Harry Potter fan. I know that witchcraft is bad but I more like the part where good triumphs over evil. Harry comes from nothing with a bleak future and through Hogwarts is accepted and finds friends. His struggles can be related to real-life struggles and that’s more what I like about the books. I’m also a Narnia fan though, as I’ve read the whole series and seen all the movies. Both are good in their own ways.

    • Okay ,
      1. witchcraft is against God and isn’t pure.
      2. God must remain pure and
      3. I am sorry but you can’t serve God and be a HP fan….as in you can’t say that you are a christain and do or see evil and allow it to come into your life! Read Gods word….study what he says… can’t you see?? there is witchcraft, i must disagree. I am sorry, but someone had to speak up.

      • I’m sorry that you think that you can’t serve God and be an HP fan, as I know hundreds of people serving God right now that grew up with Harry Potter.

        Please don’t say such brash things.

      • OH YEAH! I will stand with you, C.S.!!!!!!

      • and thank you for speaking up!!! people neEd to read the Book of Revelation again, see the increeping of evil- same in Last Battle. THE LATER NARNIANS WERE NAIVE AND TURNED INTO PUSHOVERS. THAT’S WHAT IS HAPPENING TODAY.

        reread the story of the frog put into slowly boiling water. he never jumped out and was boiled to death. look at our culture of today.

        it’s nothing against christians reading hHP, it’s that it can can have detremental effects on your judgement.

        IT’S NOT PERSONAL AGAINST THE READERS, IT IS AGAINST THE MATERIAL!!!!

        • But saying that if you’re a fan of Harry Potter that you can’t serve God IS personal. You see, I am a fan of Harry Potter, and while I know that I can personally improve and serve God more, being a fan of Harry Potter does not mean I am a servant of Satan. After all…those are the two that we can serve. And I know several Harry Potter fans that serve God with all their hearts, mights, minds, and strength–one being my younger brother who is so much more spiritually strong than me. I understand that people are Gray, not Black and White. And the goal is to become more pure day by day. And what C.S. said, that we can’t serve God when we enjoy Harry Potter, while I won’t say it makes me mad–because I understand where C.S. finds his/her reasoning–it makes me sad that he/she would condemn people so quickly.

          I have a good moral compass inside of me. There are several times that I’ve read books and felt, “This isn’t right. I can feel the Spirit leaving me right now,” and I’ve put the book down. I have not felt that with Harry Potter. That feeling of the Spirit leaving has happened with TV shows and movies as well. Some of those TV shows, books, and movies did deal with witchcraft, but not all. But I have not felt that with Harry Potter. And since that has not happened to me in all the years I’ve read Harry Potter–and this gift has been with me since I was very little–I do not say it is of the devil. So please do not say that I or those like me do not serve God.

          • I’m sorry! I didn’t mean to hurt you;sometimes the truth does hurt though. Let me explain this more clearly for you, okay?

            What I was saying is that i belive you can’t serve God and be a HP fan because:

            1.There is witchcraft in HP And the Bible speaks against it.

            2. I wasn’t saying you are serving satan, i was saying that i don’t think christain’s should read that book…ect

            I don’t mean to hurt your feelings.

            1.Just keep trusting God and read his word, okay?

            2.Don’t get upset because of my comments.

            and

            3. I am really sorry to hear this from other christains…this is a matter that needs prayer….

            Please don’t take this too hard, just talk to me ;i will talk it out with you; not fight….we can settle this!and peacably!

          • reading HP does not mean you are a servant of satan and no one is saying that What i am saying is: EXPERTS in the study of the occult WARN HP IS DETRIMENTAL to you. Along side the fun and charming characters and relationships is ACTUAL OCCULT MATERIAL. HUndredyear old satanic spells are sitting in your house. as there is a holy blessing on objects, there is also an UNHOLY “blessing” on objects. Just as early rock and roll artists in san francisco took their master tapes to be satanically consecrated to effect spells on the listeners, HP is filled with material written especially to draw down satan’s powers. if you wouldn’t keep a satanic bible in your house, it can be a spiritual danger to have an object in your possesion that has occult ties.

19. At first glance, my vote would have to go with Narnia being the better books. I am a Christian, and I did read all seven Chronicles when I was in elementary school. Harry Potter didn’t come out until I was in high school (and boy does that make me feel old!), so when I was reading the Harry Potter books, I was old enough to distinguish the difference between actually “believing” and “following” the type of magic in them, and reading them simply for entertainment. But Narnia has also always struck a special chord with me, because it was one of the first fantasy series that I vividly recall.

    However, I don’t think comparing these two books is as easy as people claim. Frankly, they have very little in common, other than the fact that they are both children’s fantasies. Narnia was designed to reach out to children and show Christian values – hence, the at-times preachy nature of it. Harry Potter was not designed to espouse any particular value set, although it does go into detail about such things as sacrifice, friendship, love, acceptance, good vs. evil, etc. But Narnia also tackles these issues too, but from a Christian viewpoint, where Harry Potter takes on a more worldly, “moral” one.

    Granted, there are some things I dislike about the HP books: the constant lying by Harry and his friends to get out of trouble, some of the jealousy and anger that crops up on Ron’s side, especially in books 4 and 5 to name a couple. But those are not a reason to condemn the series as a whole.

    Yes, Harry Potter talks about magic and uses “witchcraft”, “wizardry”, “sorcery”, etc. But there is not a single reference in the book to explain where the magic comes from. For all the indication, it seems to be an inborn gift, like being able to sing well, or write well, or play sports. If you’re going to take the stance that “magic” is bad, when it is approached in this fashion…well, then you might as well ban every kind of book where the hero has an unusual gift or ability. Harry Potter, X-Men, Spider-man, Percy Jackson (if anything, that’s more sacrilegious, since Percy is the son of a Greek god – I kinda think that one violates the 1st commandment about having no other gods?), and so forth. If people condemn a book without having read it first, then we might as well strip all fantasy and sci-fi titles off the bookshelves and force kids to read nothing but non-fiction and classics.

    Folks, this isn’t a world-ending issue! Harry Potter is FANTASY! It is FAKE! Children who are old enough to read these books are old enough to understand that it ISN’T REAL!

    I don’t see any harm in children reading Harry Potter – but I do think that parents should read the books first and be able to sit down with their children and explain it to them. But you could say the same thing about Narnia. It is the parents’ responsibility to inform themselves before they permit their children to read something that could be considered questionable. As a teacher, I’m simply thrilled to see so many children interested in reading again, and a lot of that is due to Harry Potter. I actually see just as many of my students reading Narnia as I do Harry Potter.

    Personally, I like both series. I love all three Narnia movies to date, but I’ve actually been somewhat disappointed by the Harry Potter movies. I think the books are far superior to the movies (but that’s a completely separate issue, and I don’t want to get jumped on for it.)

    • So anything that is fake is okay? no matter what it implies.

    • the point is that it is being passed off as fake when it is filled with REAL witchcraft practices. that is where readers are being disarmed, thinking it is harmless.

20. personaly i’ve never read the harry potter books and I agree we can’t judge a book by it’s cover personaly harry potter doesn’t intrest me but i do agree that Christians must be discerning & pray about what they think is right and pray about the series before they read it, yes harry potter will be just another classic in years i agree it is still new, i would advise Christians to also read Dutermony chapter 18, i like the narnia series because it does have alot of Christian symbolism, fairy tales, allgories depending on how one interprets narnia

    • Good idea about reading Deuteronomy, michelle. I just did, and I think that verses 18:9-14 is relevant to this discussion:
      “When you come into the land which the Lord, your God, is giving you, you shall not learn to imitate the abominations of the peoples there. Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in fire, nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the Lord, and because of such abominations the Lord, your God, is driving these nations out of your way. You, however, must be altogether sincere toward the Lord, you God. Though these nations whom you are to dispossess listen to their soothsayers and fortune-tellers, the Lord, your God, will not permit you to do so.”

      Reading HP or watching the movies is, essentially, like hanging out with those fortune-tellers and casters of spells. Also, since God does not permit His people to do the very things Harry & Company do, their magical powers surely could not come from Him. Yeah, I know they’re fiction and anything can happen in fiction, but, just as a Narnia fan might say, “Sword-fighting is awesome. I am so going to learn to do it!”, a HP fan might say “Witchcraft is awesome. I am so going to go to a seance!” Uhhh, this falls under the “bad companions” problem. As I said before, I think that HP is a VERY dangerous thing and people should avoid it.

      • Honestly, the only thing I heard from people watching or reading the HP books say is this: “Oh my god we shouldn’t be racist and lets make a day where we learn not to judge people by their skin color, or the amount of magic in their blood.” This is exactly what happening. And nobody went to a seance in Harry Potter FYI.

        • Angelica Chakraborty, please do not use the Name of God in vain. I know that WAAY too many people do, but it is still wrong, just as HP is wrong no matter how many people read it.
          caleb, above, put a link to a website above, and I think you should read it all the way. In case you don’t, I’d like to put a few highlights here:
          “Incidentally ever since the Harry Potter books entered the market hordes of teenagers have turned to the religion of witchcraft (Wicca) and it has become one of the fastest growing cult/occult in existence.”
          “Before some of my readers write and tell me that Harry Potter is a a hero and that there are witches who practice white witchcraft, ( good witchcraft), God reminds us that Satan comes as an angel of light (2nd.Corinthians 11:14).”
          “One woman, filmmaker and occult expert Caryl Matrisciana, focuses her efforts on explaining what she believes are the dangers of the Harry Potter series and how the books portray a lifestyle diametrically opposed to that of Christians. She has released a documentary video, “Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged, Making Evil Look Innocent,” that shows how the Harry Potter phenomenon is incompatible with Christianity. The video documentary details numerous similarities between the spells and magic used by Harry Potter and those used in the witchcraft of the Wiccan religion. ‘Such striking similarity,’ said Matrisciana, ‘is definite evidence that the author has meticulously researched Wicca and included its tenets in her children’s books. She writes her book series as fantasies, but the facts and details that she describes about witchcraft are very real!'”
          “The book teaches everything that God despises, including witchcraft, talking to the dead and reincarnation. Of course it is all wrapped up in clever covert fun.”
          “Children are very impressionable, and seeds are being sewn in their minds. The old adage goes, “what you see (and read) is what you are”.”
          “Another teaching tool found on the Scholastic website is the Harry Potter journals. Pastor Bob Coy of Calvary Chapel in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida tells of a public school teacher who looked into the journal of one of her 5th grade girl students, who wrote, “I’m a witch! You know you are a witch if you have dark spots on your private parts”. The ten year old child said she got the information out of one of the witchcraft books that she found on one of these web sites…after searching the internet for more information on Harry Potter.”
          “Unfortunately most people have no idea of what the occult really is. The Bible warns about the use of witchcraft in almost a hundred scriptures which I have written down in my book “Out From Darkness.””
          “In some instances I have seen psychic phenomena performed in the Harry Potter movies and book. For example, the movie showed Harry looking into a mirror and seeing the future. This is known as “mirror mancy”, this is a form of divination (the art of obtaining information of the spirit world forbidden by God Deut. 18:10). It is interesting to note that Sirhan Sirahan, who assassinated Robert Kennedy, said he practiced this phenomena and saw himself in the mirror killing Robert Kennedy before he committed the act. His defense was the “devil made me do it”.”
          “I was horrified as I saw another scene where there was a large glass cage with a huge snake slithering on the floor, apparently there was a boy being mean to Harry Potter. Harry then performed his magic and put the boy in the cage with the snake, who was terrifying the kid. Eventually he cast a spell and took this humongous snake out of the glass cage and left the boy locked in there. But the thing that got my attention, was when the snake was freed, it spoke to Harry and as its fork tongue shot out of its mouth, it said “thank you” to Harry Potter.”

          • Your comments are very interesting, and I can tell you are passionate about the subject. While I do not agree with you, I respect your efforts. It does make me curious: what do you think about other fantasy novels, in general? Narnia aside, as well as other fantasy novels that seek to affirm the Christian faith, how do you feel about the fantasy genre?

            I do want to point out one thing, as one who has read the books. Some may blow up at you for this mistake: your quote about mirrormancy and Harry seeing the future is not accurate. The mirror allows those who look into it to see their innermost desires. Some may take it as truth, but it is not. The point is to put yourself above your desires in this instance. I don’t know if this would still be considered mirrormancy, but it is not fortunetelling. In fact, fortunetelling is shown as a farce throughout the Harry Potter books.

          • Thanks for pointing that out. I would like to point out that I’m only quoting someone else. However, as this guy was in the occult and is now out, I think it can be trusted that this is still mirror mancy.
            About other fantasy novels, I actually like fantasy and such, but so many have the same problems that I see in HP. I am a huge fan of Narnia and LOTR, though, mostly because I know that they are good and wholesome and have Christian aspects. Actually, one of my dreams is to write a fantasy series that gives glory to God, in which the characters practice virtues, and anything they do wrong has consequences that show their error.

          • You’re Hopeless. As a matter of fact I’m Hindu and I am not so tightly bound to what god believes is right or not. I’m not an atheist, but I do not believe to lean so heavily on one way of thinking. Unlike you I am more open and embrace the light of magic and there are some things you will never understand about Harry Potter and nor will I understand how in your eyes magic is evil. If you think so then might as well ban all of Disney’s movies. Paul is right it is fiction and enjoy for it purely being fiction. Harry Potter is not dangerous and nor is Twilight and His Dark Materials. I have read all those books and I am still a happy, healthy, living being who embraces the earth like no other. The only danger I see is Twilight giving nightmares to little children.

          • it absolutely is forbidden, it is “sKrying” into a mirror- it is absolutely dangerous to do in real life.

            And Angelica, you are not trained in christianity most likely, so are not understanding the references to God commanding not to do these things.

          • @Angelica : You’re from India?

          • My parents are from India. I was born in New Jersey, but I was “trained” in the Hindu way of thinking till a couple years ago. So go ahead and tell me I am sinned and damned to hell because I am sure that is what you’re going to say or believe. On top of it I like HP, but keep in mind that I also like Narnia just as equally and along with Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Percy Jackson, Arthurian Legends, Inheritance Cycle, and HDM. And I am proud of it, well naturally since I’m in Gryffindor and I’m a Leo.

          • Angelica, no one here is saying you are going to hell. Telling someone they are “hopeless” is a little presumptuous also. “unlike you- I am more open” is kinda insulting. HP certainly doesn’t teach anyone manners, while Narnia promotes chivalry and apologies.

          • Your Majesty Shelly Belly,

            I’ve already apologized to you far down below. I didn’t say it directly, but it is what I implied. There are more than one way to apologize. I have left you in peace, but I will defend my beliefs just like you have done with yours. At least accept mine and leave me in peace with it. Can you at least show that much of respect after a duel?

            “To Mr. Harry Potter for pure nerve and outstanding courage, sixty points.” – Albus Dumbledore (Sorcerer’s Stone)

          • I didn’t mean “hopeless” in such harsh way. I meant it in light stressed way. In meaning it is very difficult to make people understand your point of view. It seems it did not come out the way I hoped. So I apologize for that.

      • also you are financialy supporting the dissemination of occult indoctrination materials., which God would disdain.

21. I think the most interesting argument here is that we shouldn’t read Harry Potter because it has “witchcraft.” Then the argument goes from defining what that “witchcraft” is.

    I believe (I have no facts to back this up) that J.K. Rowling chose the terms “witches” and “wizards” because they were already established as “magic-users.” She didn’t have to come up with a new term because as soon as her audience read it they would know “hmm…these people use magic innately.” She couldn’t use the term “magician” because magicians use sleight of hand, not true “magic.” And it would be hard to come up with a brand-new term that could get incorporated into society at large. Plus, witches and wizards have been in other children’s literature–not just as bad guys but also as good guys–so she already had a fan base. So one of the big reasons that J.K. Rowling is under scrutiny may be because of the words she chose.

    Another major cause for contention is her characters use magic (another reason her work is labelled “witchraft”). There are only a few fantasy tales where the main heroes do not use magic. You may say, “Well, Narnia is one of those stories,” but don’t forget Aslan. (Don’t blow up at me yet) Aslan talks about the Deep Magic from the Dawn of Time and the Deeper Magic from before the Dawn of Time, which allowed him to give his life for Edmund and turn back death. Now, we all know that Aslan is an allegory for Christ and that Christ uses divine power, not magic. But…this is a fantasy book. And the fact that Aslan called one thing magic means that, in order to be fair, we must label the other things he does (his breath, changing Eustace back, to name only two) as “magic.” We all know that it is divine power rather than magic, but C.S. Lewis himself let his audience call it magic. And, since we’ve covered that, I now cannot think of any fantasy book (that I’ve read) where the main heroes do not use “magic”–and I’m excluding fairy tales at this point, where some use magic and some do not.

    As stated in above comments, both Narnia and Harry Potter deal with good vs. evil, friendship, the nature of death, the nature of love. To say that one is better than the other… well, that I can’t say. Narnia was made for a slightly different audience than Harry Potter. It was written for the same age group, perhaps, as the first and second Harry Potter books. However, the audience for Harry Potter changed as the series progressed. It became older, and J.K. Rowling did that on purpose. So as far as one being better than the other, I think that the Narnia books are better than the first two Harry Potter books. As for the other books, I won’t even compare them because they were written for a different audience.

22. Oh a little note to HP haters: I thank you for hating it because without you all HP wouldn’t be the success story it is today. So I thank you for playing your part in making it one this generation’s greatest saga of all time.

    • evil has always been popular, that is no great accomplishment.

      • lol, so true 😛

    • These people are so crazy. I love both Narnia and HP. The thought of actually attempting witchcraft has never even occured to me.

      • Yes, see there it is, people. IT DEPENDS ON HOW FAR YOU TAKE IT. For some people, it becomes an obsession, which CAN become quite dangerous. Then, there is ALSO a majority of people who like Harry Potter, but purely enjoy it for the storytelling that do not let the uses of “witchcraft” get to them.

        • Here, here.

23. There are a few things that we’re all forgetting.

    Harry Potter is a work of fiction.

    It almost single-handedly got an entire generation reading books again.

    There are a couple of book series that are more dangerous: His Dark Materials and Twilight. The former was written as a response to Narnia by someone that hates C.S. Lewis. The latter was written by a Mormon that had some good intentions, but ultimately has led many to envy the life of a girl that is forced to choose between a soul-sucking glittery vampire and a werewolf, to ultimately marry one seemingly for one purpose, while still feeling conflicted enough that people remain on separate ‘teams’ regarding who she should wind up with. It leads to false pretense about what a relationship looks like, and is a romance novel in mythological clothing.

    I don’t like the use of Witchcraft in Harry Potter either, and we could argue about that until we’re blue in the face. Ultimately it’s going to do no good, and we’re going to keep going in circles about it. But there are bigger things to worry about than a seven book / eight film series that has yet to prove that it will be the Star Wars of this generation.

    • While it’s very, very true that Twilight and His Dark Materials are dangerous, HP is more so. This is because it’s somewhat subtle. People don’t see the trap until they’ve taken the bait. Moreover, it’s hailed as children’s series. Children are innocent and trusting. They’re also impressionable. They don’t always know what is good and what is evil. They’re opinions can be drastically changed by adults, older kids, and even fictional characters. If their opinion is swayed now to that witchcraft can be a good thing, do you think that they will not defend it when they are older and have gained more knowledge? Although High Queene Shelly Belly needs to calm down a little, she does have a point. These books are poison to children.

      • I know what you’re saying and I never said I disagreed about the use of witchcraft. However, I still contend that the others are more dangerous. Harry Potter effects people in a way that they look at things as make-believe. HDM and Twilight, while also dealing with the make believe, have elements and questions that all will deal with at some point.

        • And again, let me reiterate a point I made that I don’t think many people have addressed. It is the responsibility of the ADULTS to read the books, and sit down with their children and explain things if there is any question. My parents did not do that with me – but by the time I began reading HP I was old enough to distinguish the difference and to be able to treat the books as pure entertainment. Further, my parents allowed me to read Narnia without them vetting the books first (in point of fact, neither of them has ever read Narnia, and just getting them to watch the movies with me is a lesson in patience), but the instruction that they did give me and the grounding that I had in church and Christian values allowed me to make the mature choices about how much to believe in when it comes to fantasy. In point of fact, my parents trusted to the values that they have instilled in me that they never had to preview a book for me. THAT is the message that we should be sending to the children.

      • as someone who was formerly involved in new age and studied divination practices, I can tell you from first hand experience it’s all sweet poison and a soul sucking lie.

    • it has “only” darkened the minds of a whole generation of formerly innocent children, who now find darkness to be fun and enjoyable recreation. They are now the Tashlan accepters of the future.

      • I agree High Queene ShellyBelly! and everyone here….sadly witchcraft and magic does exist…i know i was shocked to find out this…but apparently yes it can be done by the help of the devils…..and using HP for children and adults to read and get into it can drag SOME people into these practices….and theres others that would use it for entertainment!…I believe these series should only be read by the adults(the ones who is aware of the existence of magic and know its evil-no such thing as good magic) and for the children to be avoided to read it…but preferably no one should read it.

      • Exactly, Shelly Belly. Everything here you’ve said, I agree with. Thank you for saying this.

        • thank you for the support, Not OTW. the fact you can be on a website like this and not all be on the same page about this is pretty much evidence to me that the dark side is making progress in blinding the upcoming generations.

          • Still waiting for your sources of information. It’s now Tuesday, and no longer holy week.

    • Yes, but people don’t always take fiction as fiction…they take it as real or as cool i wsih; and then they find out that it’s real!…..

24. “ignorance is your new best friend.” Now, I seriously think you ALL have to calm down with the whole witchcraft nonsense. Magic is magic. There’s a great amount of magic in Narnia though HP does in fact have more of it and its in your face. HP doesn’t go against our religion. It’s a flipping book. Sure Harry does magic but even if he uses it for bad at times, it is necessary in order to defeat the true evil in his world. But the novels have a good sense of right from wrong. Just because HP doesn’t have a lion representing God/Jesus or some animal representing Him, doesn’t mean he does not exist in that world. Sin is when its done for evil. Witchcraft is bad when it is used for evil, but if its used to defeat evil or is used for good, it isn’t bad really. On top of that, if you never saw the films or read the books, then you’ll never know. So don’t come sauntering on over here and commenting on what you don’t know especially since you don’t know you don’t know.
    Sigh. I just want to say that everything must be taken in moderation. Everything learned, read, said…God doesn’t mean for you to terrorize Rowling, calling her blasphemous for what she writes about. You can’t take the teachings and twist them around. Its fiction, its literature.
    However, I love Narnia more, that I will agree. But I like HP too. Just not as much, because Lewis struck a better chord in me. I suggest you read them. They don’t bite.

    • “even if he does use for bad at times, it is necessary”- you are now indoctrinated to accept evil- JK has accomplished her purpose. you have been suckered. try explaining to jesus when you see him that you had to use evil to accomplish good. good luck.

      • Yeeeeah. I was sucked in alright. I’m going to go to hell for reading a book about a little boy that waves a wand. You want the U.S Army to explain to Jesus about killing German troops during the Holocaust? Killing is bad, but you wanted the world to do nothing while Hitler…did what he did? I don’t think so. As I said, when necessary.
        And I think it is incredibly rude to say that I was “suckered”. If someone is comfortable with what they believe and who they are, a simple series of novels won’t change that. They provide simple escapism for readers. I won’t doubt there are freaks out there that are trying to make feathers fly for real. I hope they wake up and realize they can’t, but there is magic in our world too. The magic of the wind blowing against you during the spring, or the magic of lying in a field with the flowers all around you in a rainbow of colors and smells, or the magic of GOD, the magic of Christmas morning, the magic of decorating the tree, the magic of life! There is magic all around us, and if a person wants to write about wizards and what not, well she can. And there are spiritual themes in the novel if only you tried to see. There is a difference between over exaggerating, and under exaggerating. Some people over do it.
        You have to keep your mind wide open to things. You can’t just shut your mind and yell “NO!!” whenever you hear anything about something you were told is bad. Because you know what, I heard about the complaints before I read the series. I read it to see. Seriously, people make big deals out of EVERYTHING. I was so annoyed after I read the first few books because I kept thinking, “What, my dear people, are you complaining about. Is this the infamous Harry Potter? You MUST be joking. Did I read the wrong series?” The most important thing to remember is that it is a work of fiction and that that magic does exist in true life no matter who says it does. Or does it? 🙂
        But, my fellow Narnians, why are we so mad at J.K Rowling? There are many other book to be offended of. His Dark Materials! Oh, I read them. Beautifully written and a surprisingly good series, but did I believe what I read? ‘Course not! I can tell a work of fiction between the truth. Novels like these are meant for escapism. They are not biographies or anything. They aren’t bibles of how to live. And I am dumbfounded that HP worries everyone the most. I bet if you read both side by side, you’d like HP more. His Dark Materials would give you a heart attack.
        Twilight? Well, we need not worry about that. Twilight will die pretty soon, and the books aren’t offensive at all. I also read them -___- and, well, they are just a girl’s imaginary fantasy of men. Nothing to worry about really. Girls read that to escape the reality men
        And I am sorry, Paul, if I have stirred up any trouble along with the other…..fans. I only wanted to make a point and open the eyes of people.
        If you are so weak in faith that a simple series of books can change your way of thinking, PRAY. May God make you more tolerant.
        Also, we must learn to find God in other works of literature (other than His Dark Materials O_O). Even films! Who else have seen parallels to religion in the Tron films?
        “But still I can not see
        If the savage one is me
        How can there be so much that you don’t know
        You don’t know?”

        • i didn’t say anyone would go to hell for resding a book, nor that we shouldn’t defend ourselves in WW2.

          Lots of people ARE weak in faith, or naive. and HP with it’s friendly veneer can suck them right in. its main talent is to get you to drop your defenses and accept darkness as enjoyable. and that’s why marketing it to CHILDREN is especially heinous.

          you wont be seeing anyone reading HP in heaven, i doubt then we should be supporting it here.

        • and “tolerant ” is code word for brainwashing. better to be “obedient” to what God commands, which rarely involves “tolerating” what is evil.

          “what do schools teach these days?”

          tolerance as gospel, for one.

          • HOWEVER!!! You won’t be seeing anyone reading Narnia in heaven either. They won’t cut down heavenly trees for paper 😀 And God teaches us to be tolerant of others, so God is using code word for brainwashing others? Suuuure. You must also understand that children are naive to your supposed “evil” undertones. They won’t realize them. It’s the job of the parents of kids in teen years reading the series to sit and talk with them, and even then they do not have to. The books aren’t that heinous for that. The books become what you make them. If your child is reading the book and you make a remark or they hear a remark that says, “That book is full of evil!!” they will see the evil. HOWEVER. If they are ignorant to your supposed evil, they will hardly notice and once they finish the book or series depending on if they liked it or not, they will still be the same God loving person.

          • you have just supported the obection that don’t necessarily know what they are reading or how to discern hidden intentions in materials. that’s becasue they are innocnet and just learning. they should have the guidence of an adult.

            God does not tell us to be “tolerant”, he tells us to be loving and guide people to HIS laws, not things he disaproves of.

    • there isn’t magic in narnia…. would you say that Jesus used magic to heal?

      And I won’t read them I get upset that people; christains read this stuff; I don’t read for two reasons.

      1. parents won’t let me
      2. It contains witch craft , and God words speaks against it.

25. I’ve got half a mind to turn comments off on this post. Things have progressively gotten more and more out of hand.

    • I agree with you here, but it was indeed an eye-opener for me. Let’s not get HP fans and Narnia fans tangled up again it is way to messy. Keep it up so people can look back and learn, but make sure no further posts are made. Up to you though.

    • Terribly sorry :X

    • ahhhh, a little spirited debate never hurt anyone. at least it keeps things interesting.

      • Not when you are not being open-minded and accusing everyone going to the devil right and left. Honestly, I find it fascinating how you will find every possible way without even reading the books to defend your beliefs. One thing I’m certain people who are so close-minded can never change their views no matter how hard you try. I’m getting sick and tired of this debate. The only thing it has done is make realize how many narnia fans hate Harry Potter because they are so deeply bound to their religious views. So I think it is a good idea to turn this whole post off. This has gone on long enough.

        • or you could just stop posting yourself. perhaps others would like to discuss it. and i didn’t say i never read it, and i have seen some of the movies. i have studied a lot of material on harry potter and the source material JK rowling used, which makes me an INFORMED commenter, not a closed minded one just because i disagree with you. perhaps someone else is being petulant.

          • Then please give me some sources from the books or films to prove your point rather than just saying things without evidence. No argument can truly be valid if it is not backed up by evidence. I gave evidence to prove my point whether you agreed with them are not. Are they full proof evidence is another matter. I was not only aiming at you, but to others who haven’t and just accuse without looking into it to see if the accusations are true or not. Since you claim to have read them then I will take into consideration that your voice has value in the debate. That does not mean I agree with you that HP is evil, but I will let you stick to your beliefs in peace.

            “Besides the world is not split between good and death eaters. We all have both the light and the dark, it all depends on which you choose to act upon.” – Sirius Black (Order of the Phoenix)

    • I agree with you , but also with High Queen ShellyBelly; there is nothing wrong with it; it is good once in awhile; it has gotten out a little too far;sorry guys … (Still I think HP is wrong…no offense to anyone, just my oppion.

    • Paul, I’m sorry, but please, I really want you to turn these off. Things have gotten extreme. It’s been a week now, and I think everyone had a chance to voice their opinion, and loudly so.

      • censorship?

        paul, i really don’t want you to to close down discussion on an important topic, and neither do others who are still obviously reading and posting . this is america, not communist china..

        • All of us may not be from the US. I am, but it may not be the same for others. I’ve seen people who only speak Spanish here so they may live in an another country. I could be wrong, but I’m just saying what I’ve seen.

      • I agree. This is going too far. It is really sounding like a broken record of people constantly hurting people. As I said before it is a high school musical without the musical.

26. Hey all of you I want to make announcement: My University’s English Department and Harry Potter Club are holding a Harry Potter Academic Conference sometime this fall. Any of you interested in writing a paper then you may or if you want to come out of interest you can. I strongly suggest HP haters to at least come with an open mind and ears, and a closed mouth if you are willing to try an understand why so many people love it so much. This is going to be at UNC Charlotte. We are in a call for papers now and it would look good on your resume.

    • You can’t teach the blind how to see….

      • We can try and besides I said if they are willing. Anyways I’m trying to advertise. We really need some good papers. I’m doing mine on Harry Potter and Hinduism. Maybe I will also do another about the power of love in HP. We were originally going to do it this April, but we didn’t get enough to start a conference. So it is now postponed to fall. Thank goodness because now I can use the summer for research.

        • how about calling in some occultism/anti HP authors for balance? that would get interesting. 🙂

          • That is exactly what we don’t want.

          • HP fans want to plug their ears and stamp their tiny feet and whine, “no, IIIIIIIII like it, and don’t anyone else bring up valid points that may expose its damaging effects?” lol i’m sure there must be students in college mature enough to handle a balanced debate.

          • It is not a debate, but a conference. If there was a debate club and this was discussed then maybe. Our club is doing this to promote, not discourage.

      • …because God is the only one who can.

27. I love both HP and Narnia. I’m not even going to begin to involve myself in the “is Harry Potter right or wrong?” argument, because there seems to be enough of that going on here. =)

    I do much prefer the Narnia series, though. Those stories are such a huge part of my life and have probably influenced my views of Christianity, God, and heaven more than any books other than the Bible.

    Harry Potter, for me, is just entertainment. Just books to read and movies to watch- not really any different than any of the other books or DVDs on my shelves.

28. It’s true; “instant classic” is an oxymoron. Lewis said a work of art is a book you willing to read again, so HP qualifies there for many people, but a classic by definition is one that endures (“enduring classic” is redundant)after its time changes, so time will tell. Rev Michael Ward was asked at a conference about HP, and pointed out that after the 3rd book each installment ballooned in size and read increasingly like movie scripts which (masterly Brit understatement alert) “does not argue for artistic control.” However, the artistic control may manifest in a lot of ways: HP echoes the basic mythic plot of King Arthur, Parsifal, Abe Lincoln, The Matrix, and even Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer: the Geek who becomes Cool, the Nobody who finds himself at the center of everything. Whether that still means anything in 30 years, we’ll see, or at least my children will see.

29. As someone who has studied literature, particularly relating to narrative, symbolism, and myth, I want to leave a few quick comments on this discussion:
    1) Metaphor and symbolism exist in all stories. For those of you that take a literal “if magic is in Harry Potter, it must be because Rowling is indoctrinating into witchcraft,” then what do you do with the River God in LWW, Bacchus in PC, and the magician and dragon in VDT, among others who use magic? You can’t have it both ways. If you want to see the world in absolute black and white with no metaphor/simile/symbolism, then at least be intellectually honest and ban the Narnia books too. (though I’m of course arguing just the opposite)
    2) Fantasy literature (and its predecessors in literature – see the Fairie Queen and Midsummer Night’s Dream among hundreds of others) use fictional and mythological characters, including those who use magic, to say things metaphorically. Most of all, magic in stories represents power over the world – do you do evil with your power or do you choose to restrain yourselves and do what is right, often submitting to a higher power?. In Harry Potter, as a recent example, there are moments over and over again where this use of power is questioned – Harry’s insistence on using a disarming spell rather than a maiming/killing spell in the final book, for example.
    3) If it wasn’t magic, then it would be physical prowess with a sword that symbolizes power, or a gun or a quick wit or intelligence or science. Take the super hero genre – it’s super powers given by radiation or some sci fi invention that empower most of our current heroes – and many of these stories are about what do we do with the power/talents we are given? Do we do evil or do good?

    The argument over witchcraft misses most of the point of 1)how narrative/characterization/metaphor work, 2)that God’s truth is spread out in this world and can be contained in pieces at least in works that are not Overtly (with a capital O) Christian, 3)how fantasy and sci fi literature works, and 4) how the history of literature has played out.

    What worries me most is that there are people in this world that would see the series as literally preaching witchcraft. The fact that there are good people on this board that believe this means that there are also likely bad people out there in the world that would also take this literal stance on the other end of the spectrum and that would identify with the evil characters and want to do evil. But that’s an age old problem – at least in recent years, what do you do with those who watch Star Wars and see Darth Vader and the Emperor as role models and try to practice the dark side of the force?

    • this is a good example for all the people that insist that HP is “just a flippin’ book.” Star wars fans have now actually got the star wars belief system registered as an actual religion. It was “just a flippin movie, ” now malleable people actual subscribe to this and Star Trek philosophy as an actual religion instead of christianity revealed by the son of God.

      As it says in the bible, in the last days, people will have their ears tickled with strange fallacies that simply fit what they want to hear. thats why in this bible illiterate age, fun lovin’ Harry Potter is dangerous to those who will not be able to discern the approach of “occult works as fun”. Stories of murder and blood and gore for eight year olds is NOT holy and pleasing to God.

      • First: calm down.

        Second: Star Wars fans were putting “Jedi” on the census. It didn’t actually become a registered religion in England. They tried, but the government hasn’t gone so far as to recognize it. Plus, the people doing it weren’t serious. Those that did were doing it for a number of reasons, including privacy. Believe me, I read all about that when it was happening. I’m a pretty big Star Wars geek.

        Third: Harry Potter is not for eight year olds.

        • starting for first graders, on up.remember she geared it to the british elementary school system-

          • I believe it to be more for 6th graders not first graders, unless the British schooling is done differently.

        • and i’m very calm, in fact im half asleep. ha ha

      • I like starwars, and i was a big fan myself;until it was getting out of hand…they have started doing too much in the CloneWars;trust me;it isn’t pretty!

      • Actually the Force was after much studying on how the Force actually worked it is actually god and funny that Anakin was conceived by the Force itself. Anyways Star Wars has a great deal of religion when talking of the jedi and the Force. I really believe that the Force in some form or another actually exists. Anyways people no that witchcraft is not real. Come on you don’t see people begin levitating objects with a stick everyday now do you. Of course we do it for fun, but never serious. Actually come to the idea of having the power of the Force it said according to my dad and in fact he is reliable in this field of knowledge about our religion and Gurugees. That the gurus in India have these powers, but they don’t use them. I don’t understand that because what is the point of meditating and trying to obtain this power for many years. Finally have it, but not use it. That’s something to think about.

        • In my opinion, the whole “Force” idea presented in Star Wars is like God, always present, always guiding us. I don’t find anything about the Force contriversial. As a Christian, that’s how i choose to see it, although there are SOME Buddhist and Hindu influences in Star Wars.

          Also, Angelica, are you Hindu? or Buddhist, perhaps? You mentioned something about meditation…

          • I am Hindu. I stated that above a few days ago.

        • I mostly agree with that. Jedi aren’t wizards. And the force is like a super power for superman. That’s not witchcraft. But if star wars was about wizards who use magic, that I would be opposed to (And thank goodness it’s not! 🙂 I’m a star wars fan).

          • Whoops! I ment to reply that to reep’s fan girls comment 🙂

          • me too, but only for the original series…don’t really care for Clone wars anymore;as i stated before. The force thing is simblism to me….

        • star wars/ the force portrays good and evil as equals. in god’s revelation – we know that god is superior to satan. good is not equal in power to evil.

30. Oh and by the way, I say all this as an individual. Since it put the logo of my work on my profile, I want to distance myself from any official policy of the Foundation.

31. I agree with you Paul. The Bible says we should not fight about such things. But we should discuss them.

    But one last statement:

    Are you people seriously willing to sacrifice maybe your relationship with God or other people relationship with God just for a little bit of entertainment that you could easily get somewhere else that’s safe.

32. I have a lot of different stand points on this topic, even though I personally have never read/watcher Harry Potter. I can definitely understand WHY Harry Potter has become to contriversial. I will admit, I know there are a lot of kids that are totally OBSESSED with the series, and come on, people, witchcraft isn’t exactly the HEALTHIEST obsession. At the same time, I can also see that there is still an establishment of Good vs. Evil, and that there is SOME distinction between the two, despite the fact that both sides use witchcraft, which brings us back around to the whole controversy. However, here are my 2 cents on 4 things:

    1. To stay along the lines of the entire topic, I personally agree with Ben. Harry Potter is still “young” and cannot be fully considered a “classic” like Narnia just yet. I think that whether or not it ever becomes a classic, it WILL be remembered for it’s controversy.
    2. As I said, I have never read it, but I understand that part of the controversy is also about the “spiritual themes”. In my opinion, mixing witchcraft with “spiritual themes” is a little….different, and i almost want to say “One or the other people!” but at the same time, I cannot help but think “Well, there must be SOME redeeming qualities in the series.”
    3. On the comments: Well, first of all, there are alot of comments that i would love to adress and perhaps argue over, but for the sake of Paul and all the peacekeepers on Narnia Fans, i will spare you of my sometimes endless rants. 😉 However, I will say this: Destrier’s Rider, you adressed to Catholics in one of your comments. You are totally right! the church doesn’t smile upon witchcraft, nor does it take it lightly. I myself am Catholic, and I find it rather surprising how many Catholics are less concerned about the series compared to many Evangelicals and Non Denominationals. Don’t get me wrong, I know alot of Catholic speakers that are very against Harry Potter too. However, it’s just a reoccuring pattern i’ve seen. All in all, though, thank you, Destrier, for adressing everyone. Many times, Catholics are excluded.
    4. FINALLY, I just wanted to apologize to Paul on behalf of everyone. I’m sorry if we took this too far. However, the moment I saw the title of this post, I new that there would be more than 2483274 comments on the evils of harry potter. That doesn’t make it right to be so argumentative with each other, however.

    And, because I want to lighten this up, may i just say, Lookin’ cute as usual, Will! 🙂

    • Woah! sorry to take up so much room! I didn’t realize how long that was untill I pressed “Submit Comment”! I hope I made myself clear… 🙂

      • i liked the comment on Will i agree, but i like Ben better!LOL

        • haha, but Will is SOooooOOOO sweet! 🙂 and, ahem ahem, very cute 🙂

          • I prefer Skandar. Since we’re starting this topic up again and my cousin likes Ben and William Mosley. She was disappointed that Will M. was not in VDT and Ben didn’t look the same in VDT as he did in PC or sound the same.

          • Awww, Will Mosley was SO COOL! I totally miss him, he just IS the perfect Peter. I missed him too 🙁
            Yeah, like, what HAPPENED to Ben in VDT? He was way cooler in PC. 🙁
            But Will P. made up for his un-coolness 😉
            I liked Skandar more in PC than VDT.

33. i’m going to stay completely out of this discussion, because i haven’t read HP or seen the films, and so obviously cannot give any opinion that would be worth anything.

    but just reading through all these comments, it struck me as rather ridiculous. i mean, yes, we all have different opinions and beliefs, but it seems some people are getting way too worked up about this. discussion is only good to a point, then it crosses the line and becomes dissension. there comes a point when you just have to accept that others don’t agree with you, and move on without becoming judgmental and intolerant. you have to stand up for your beliefs, yes. but you also have to be open-minded and realize you cannot single-handedly convert the whole world to your opinions.

    ok that’s all i have to say. and maybe i shouldn’t have even posted anything, but i just felt compelled to say that much.

    • I agree with you that one should not enter a debate or discussion if they are not informed properly on the matter. Paul and others reminded me that we should appreciate others view. I do, but if the claim they claim are backed up then they should not start accusing based on assumption. So I made my peace and am simply going to continue on with my life. I’m just returning to see if the ones I rivaled are accepting my peace. You are perhaps the most sincere person I have heard on this topic. Thank you for voicing your opinion. I hope others will listen to people like you.

      P.S. If you known Harry Potter I would have said you are like Hermione Granger (the book-smart, logical main female character).

      • thank you 🙂

34. To all who think that “Harry Potter is bad because it contains witchcraft and says it’s a good thing”:

    Please do enlighten me – do you think that The Lord of the Rings is bad? Well, with opinions like that you probably do. But do you think that The Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella (and other fairy tales) are bad for your soul? They contain witchcraft, and the good characters cast spells, after all…

    Calm down, OK?

    As to HP vs. Narnia… I agree that HP is too new and no one knows if it will become classic like Narnia, but I bet it will. It seems to me that comparing those two is a bit pointless. They are both wonderful, but each in a completely different way… They are both fantasy, that’s the only thing they have in common…

    • Because I fall under your question: No, in fact THE LORD OF THE RINGS is my favorite book of all time. There are no witches and wizards in The Lord of the Rings. (You may be thinking of Gandalf and Saruman at this point.) Gandalf and Saruman are Istari. They are very different from traditional wizards. Even though they are sometimes called wizards, they are actually part of a group that came to Middle-earth, who were sent to help out. They are more like guardian angels, as far as their creation and purpose. I could go on. I wrote a letter to the newspaper about 10 years ago that responded to someone else about this very thing. I’m well versed in Tolkien.

    • the difference is : fairy tale magic is a concoction of novelists made up for entertainment and does not exist. Witchcraft is an actual religion that is now recognized by the US army, even. Witchcraft practice involves calling upon spiritual entities from other planes, worshiping gods other than Jehovah, and is strictly forbidden in the bible.

      the lord of the rings is drawn from christian principles and is a force for good.

      • Yes, okay, and where do you find that kind of witchcraft in Harry Potter? I don’t see any difference in Harry Potter’s magic and the magic of fairy tales. Is it just the use of the words “witch” and “wizard” that sets you of so much?

        To Paul Martin – yes, but I was thinking also about Melian, Lúthien, Galadriel, Finrod… They do magic. Why is that better than Harry Potter doing magic? I am also very well versed in Tolkien, you don’t need to explain to me what Gandalf was. My point is, in fantasy a witch or a wizard is a person who can do magic. In this sense of the word, Gandalf certainly is a wizard. As is Harry Potter. Where is the difference? I don’t see it.

        • All elves, save for Melian who was of the Maiar. They were all gifted with these abilities by Eru Illuvatar (essentially God). The elves were very symbolic of angels (or archangels in some cases).

          Gandalf and Harry Potter are not even close to the same thing. Tolkien was not bound by the definitions of fantasy. He redefined fantasy in general. Harry Potter does things that many traditional wizards and witches might do, more influenced by Merlin and Halloween.

          In the fiction of J. R. R. Tolkien, the Wizards of Middle-earth are a group of beings outwardly resembling Men but possessing much greater physical and mental power.

          • OK, I could say a thousand things to that… but… lets just say that the more I read this discussion, the more glad I am that I am not a Christian, because I can just read the books and enjoy them without turning every word over and pondering hidden meanings which might or might not be there.

            Don’t like Harry Potter? Don’t read it. But please just say “I don’t like it because…” not “It is bad because…” The good/bad thing isn’t in the book, it’s in the reader. A book is meant to be read, but it is up to the reader to draw his conclusions out of it, and if he draws bad ones, it isn’t the book’s fault.

          • I wasn’t very clear, as I have work to do, but that was just the bare minimum of explanations. Also, I’m not saying that HP is “bad” because of whatever. A Christian can enjoy Harry Potter. I know many that do. All things in moderation.

          • So true Ardnaxela, but the only problem sometimes is that most of them don’t read it and accuse of hating it. That is where the problem begins. For those who have and still hate then there is nothing more people like us can do, just accept their beliefs. I’m not Christian either and this whole argument just makes me glad I am not one. I’m just glad my religion is very tolerant to appreciate a good story as it is or even bad ones.

          • Angelica: do not say that about Christians. We all can learn something from one another as belivers in a Greater Being. In a way, saying such things is actually being judgemental yourself. We must tolerate one another, even while we may not agree entirely on certain subjects.

          • Alright maybe this should just stop. I’m pretty sure people know our opinions now.No need to keep fighting about it. We would all be strangers if we one day met in the real world. No need to make enemies of each other. Plus people are getting the idea that Christians and Hindus or what ever your religion is just fight. That’s usually not the case. I say we END IT here.

          • it seems like the putdowns and
            ‘intolerance”
            ‘
            ‘ is being thrown more AT the christians.

        • What did I say. I didn’t say anything offensive. I just said that this argument is really turning me off. I know that Christians like Harry Potter like Paul said because there are those religious aspects in the series. It’s just that certain tight believers have to bring up this argument. If I did offend you then I apologize, but my statement wasn’t to offend.

          • @ Angelica: I’m praying for you. And let me tell something straight out though it may offend you : there is only ONE way to heaven and that is through Jesus.

          • Thank You voyager for your concern from your point of view, but since I am a Hindu I will be fine without your prayers for me. There is more than one way to heaven. I’m not offended, but expected as much from you.

          • I’m from India and know about Hindus. Can you please tell me how you are going to get to heaven?

          • I would like to leave a few notes, to not just Angelica and voyager, but anyone reading this as well.
            First, to Angelica: I myself apoligize if I interpreted your comment incorrectly. Thank you for apoligizing, even though you didn’t mean to offend. Thank you for your understanding, I know it’s hard sometimes. 😉
            and Voyager: well, a LOT of notes to you. 😉 First of all, I think it’s very kind of you to want to pray for someone you have never met before, but you want to help. However, using it as a point isn’t the way to go.
            As a cradle Catholic, I have learned about World Religions from a Catholic point of view, but also in my schooling as well. As a Catholic, as Christian, more importantly, I was taught that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life. However, that does NOT mean that there is not truth in other religions as well. For example, I greatly admire the Hindu’s respect for all forms of life. I find much truth in that. As a Catholic, I am taught to see Christ in all people, young, old, and the poorest of the poor, in all forms of life. In this, I am loving my neighbor as myself, a command of Christ himself, voyager. This is just one example, but i find it to be important: Our differences unite us. Please rethink telling another that they will not get into Heaven because you may not agree with their views/religion entirely. It is not for us to judge, but for God.
            And perhaps it would be better to close this conversation, because it isn’t entirely related to the topic, and for Paul’s sake as well. 🙂

35. Read this please:

    http://www.thelionscall.com/articles/harry_potter.cfm

    • Hmm… if you pick it apart that much – unlike the Pevensies, Harry Potter never killed, not even in a battle, and even risked his life to try to save his enemies.

      • You’re right now I think back on it. He never did, he always just disarmed and it became is signature spell, which gave him away to be the real Harry during the flight away from Privet Drive. Of course they changed it to Hedwig giving up her life for him. At least she had a noble death in the film.

      • It’s not a question of killing. It’s the magic. I’m not against death in books, but I am against evil magic. As the article says when Lucy tried to use magic, she was scoulded (not in a mean way) by Aslan, but when Harry Potter broke rules (This is just from reading the article. I have and will never reaad those books) he was praised.

        • He was praised because he broke the rules to save everyone he cares about. Yes he broke thousands of rules especially in his first and second year, but he did in the end to save Hogwarts from Voldemort and the Basalisk that was petrifying muggle-borns right and left. Who care if he uses magic or not. The main point is the story not the world they live in. If you were born of magic in a magical world and was told that only way to help control it is by practice using a and that it could save a thousand people from certain death. Would you do it or just say that magic is evil and sit and let them all die because you refuse to use magic?

          • First of all, that’s fiction. I would absolutly never be in that situation. And if I was, I would pray to Jesus for help and not do any witchcraft. A wizard is a figure that expariments in witchcraft. And isn’t that what Harrry Potor is? a Wizard? I’m not saying that your not going to go to Heaven because you read these books. Totally another topic. But what I am saying is that witchcraft is a sin.

          • Forget that witchcraft is a sin and just answer my question. I pin you and others down in these types of questions and all you care about is that he casts spells. Look at the storyline and not thematic elements. It isn’t that hard to do. He is evil just for that one reason, then all is good quality means nothing to you when it is the same thing you see in Narnia. Its like not wanting to talk to black guy just because he is black and not caring whether he is a good and kind person who would allow himself to be killed to save you. Can you at least get this. I’m not trying to change your views, but trying to at least make you understand that you can’t just assume HP is this great evil without getting a chance to know him.

          • I assume the HP books are evil because witchcraft is evil. Witches are evil. Warlocks are evil. WIZARDS are evil. And Vampires are evil. That’s all I’m saying about this. If you’ve read my post up there, you would see that I said we should stop. So I think we should stop.

    • Great article! But one thing it left out in morality, HP shows revenge to be good. Which is a TERRIBLE thing to show little children.

      FOR THOSE SAYING THE MAGIC IS “FAKE”:

      Maybe it is, but you forget that “witchcraft” is real. it doesn’t matter whether the book is a “true” story or not, it shows something that DOES EXIST, makes it look good, then shows it to young children who(as everyone has seen) copy what they see in movies and other entertainment. It’s very dangerous and I can’t believe ANY christian would allow their children or themselves to read/watch the HP series.

      • Thank you, i agree!!!! You go caleb! THats what i was saying!

36. If she loves narnia, then why did she make those books, isn’t that to compete? I mean come on, witchcraft is evil! i seriously don’t care about if she likes narnia or C.S. Lewis…she is a witch and I am tired of only seeing HP on the news….on tv! I would rather watch Narnia and star wars 5X series 5x ; exclueding Clone wars…..There are evil powers out there ! Doesn’t anyone know it is real??

    To tell you the truth i don’t see magic in narnia, only belive and mircles ( i see things not as magic….i mean magic is witchcraft too) Aslan Jesus doesn’t use magic but his power for good; the white witch…ect they use evil and magic;not the other way around. i seriously don’t like talking about witchcraft, J.K Rowling or Harry Potter… to me they are all temptation and the ‘devils work’. I won’t watch it ,read it or even look at it; and as i have said a dozen times now, i don’t like talking about it.

    Hey, nice to hear about what Ben Barnes thinks though…i liked the interview! I am sorry that he read those books though….reminds me of somthing else….(personal)….

    Oh, by the way i always see J.K. Rowling as Jadis and all the evil stuff ( mostly becuase of what she writes!) LOL!!!
    Also I think that is part of the reason i am writting a book
    of my own , just to get my mind off her and HP

    i once had friends that played HP outside, i couldn’t stand for it, we had a debate about HP and Narnia…..actually maybe after this people can feel better, i know i do!!

    • Rowling had a very hard poor life until one day sitting at King’s Cross Station for a three hour train delay. There did Harry come fully formed into her mind. Harry Potter and Narnia are similar in the morals they have to teach and many other similar aspects like seven books and a lion symbolizing our heroes. They both deal with resurrection and sacrifice for love. The only thing is that HP has the theme and setting in modern day with people born with magic, which cannot be explained. The wands are there to harness their powers so they can control it and not cause devastation by accident. These are facts, not opinions. I will only state facts from now on. If you don’t believe me then listen to John Granger.

      • Well facts to the best of my abilities.

      • I have to disagree Narnia and Harry potter are not anything alike!!!!!!!

    • I do not think the disagreement here is over whether we should expose children to inappropriate material – no one here wants to see kids psychologically / spiritually damaged by inappropriate material. The disagreement is over whether Harry Potter is really bad or not. I doubt Harry Potter is any more harmful than ‘The Princess Bride’, ‘Star Wars’, ‘Lord of the Rings’, ‘How to train your Dragon’ or the Teletubies. However, I accept that I could be wrong. I applaud your passion to see children grow up in a wholesome environment, even if I disagree with your conviction that Harry Potter jeopardizes it.

    • Yet Ben is still perfectly intact, is he not? Does HE look possessed? He obviously isn’t practicing witchcraft.

      I think that yes, Harry Potter CAN become a problem, but there are things out there that are PRESENTLY a problem. Working on those things that truly ARE problems right now will benefit us more than arguing about the effect Harry Potter will have on people. And don’t see J.K. Rowling as evil, she is still a person like you and me, and she deserves respect. She is a very accomplished person, and we must show her respect for at least that.

37. I think you all are missing the point. What Mr. Paul Martin said earlier is right. All things should be taken in moderation. Now I am a Christian you see. I’ve been one since i was 9. However if there is one thing that can sort of annoy me sometimes its stuff like this. When it comes to certain subjects like these though i believe the Bible is left for interpretation. It has been for years. So i will bring up my point.

    1. I understand that the Bible condemns practicing witchcraft and that much is true, but what about everything else? Whether you like it or not there are other issues besides witchcraft that influence people today & many Christians as well. Violence covers a vast majority of movies, games, shows, and music. Yet everyone seems to be panicking over this issue of witchcraft which does have some spread but it is certainly not as widespread as other issues. I’m not putting this on every Christian since I am one myself but there are far too many who condemn people for watching HP and calling them “future occultist” and then turning around to watch their favorite horror flick. Lets face it alot of today’s media revolves around issues stated that we should stay away from in the Bible. Yet that doesnt seem to stop people from watching it. You ever seen an action flick? Chances are may of you have. How about “Thou Shalt Not Kill?” Yet i am willing to go as far as to say that a great number of Christians have seen shows with murders in them all the time. Whether its from cop shows to action movies. You can say “oh well it doesnt influence me the kill. It’s just a movie/show” Well then why cant you say the same with HP? You can say “oh well they use their weapons in defense against someone or to protect someone.” Well isnt that exactly what Harry and his friends are doing?

    Do you all understand? To completely bash HP like that and then to turn around and do something thats just as related seems very hypocritical to me. If you’re going to stand by the word of God stand by it whole heartedly and in everything but if you are not going to in everything you do or say don’t criticize someone because they’re viewpoint is different than yours. I do not like the idea of witchcraft but that is no reason to say that those who read it are devil worshipers. And considering that witchcraft is such a small portion of what is dominating todays media I’d like to think that you’d have alot more to worry about than this.

    • I agree, thank you for sharing your opinion, and peacefully too. 🙂

38. I think the chronicles of Narnia are the best 4ever

39. Did anyone see that interview on Oprah of JK Rowling?

    Oprah asked her if she thoguht there was a God and she stated:
    “I don’t like to call it God, I think if it more as a higher being”. In other words, she doesn’t want a God who can control her by rules, only something that can give her heaven. She was also wearing these weird charms around her neck. That is PROOF out of her own mouth that she is not a christian. Let me see if I can find the interview.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y8TJqBtV8Y&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

    That’s the main aprt, but through the whole interview she says crazy things. In that part she states that “magic is relying on yourself, you ahve powers, while religion requires an outside source”.

    Did you also hear the part where she talks about the quote from the first book that one day all people will know Harry Potters name. And if this book is published it will be huge. JK says she “heard” avoice tell her this.

    I’m sorry to say this, but I’m very certain that she had a demon telling her these things. She says she has always liked magic, and anyone who likes it can be “influenced” by Satan.

    • Good Lord..I never knew that.You can almost say she’s an atheist or a Satan worshipper..This is scary.. I’m praying. And we’re surely living in the end times.

      • I think it’s very creepy too, TRUST ME. But none of us ever claimed she was Christian, at least, i KNOW i didn’t 😉
        It is obivious she is a mixed up person, sadly, one of the MANY mixed up people out there, but I would not call this “end times” voyager. There’s a LOT worse going on than witchcraft and one woman’s beliefs. I know she is influentual on a lot of people, but what is important is that she doesn’t influence YOU, voyager. I can see that she has not, very clearly. 🙂

        • @voyager Yes it is pretty easy to see. Did you notice all the HP fans didn’t comment on this 😛

          @reepicheep’s_fangirl I think she was referring to the fact that such a person could write a story that many people(christians mainly) enjoy. Not that “one person” being evil is the reason for it looking like the end times. Which I agree with, the fact that so many Christians suddenly toss their morals aside when there in the theater scares me too.

    • That was amazingly bad ! Just by seeing that I don’t want to look at another interview or anything with her or her books!

40. I can see what you guys are talking about and I am a christian myself and I read all of HP books. I guess you can say that I am a pro Potter. With that being said I don’t see a problem with Harry Potter I don’t I really don’t. It book and it can help your kids get into reading which is good thing. I got into reading thanks to Harry Potter and twilight. I would let my child read HP books along as they know that stuff in Harry Potter is made up.

41. All right the past few days of my life has been taken up this argument, which I have fought on relentlessly and many others as well. SO I began thinking since yesterday that I wanted to make this my final argument, conclusion, and whatever else you want to call it. I will do my best to the best my abilities to every dilemma brought up.

    1. This post starts off with Anna Pendleton saying HP is full of witchcraft. Then others follow saying it is evil because it is witchcraft. Witchcraft there may be, but you all become blind to all of Harry’s other great deeds and accomplished feats. Another read the books otherwise say you believe HP is evil because of witchcraft and instead of it is. This is like saying you hate ice cream, but never actually trying the product. So how would you no without trying.

    2. The snake scene as someone mentioned is just pure evil and mean. True, but you didn’t grasp the rest of the story. At that point Harry did know he had magic in his blood and he was using it. As you would have later discovered. Him talking to a snake is thanks to his enemy Voldemort who left a part of him in Harry. So don’t blame the kid.

    3. Hp characters are bad because they use magic. Only the bad characters use magic in Narnia. What about the rings in MN that Polly and Diggory used? What about the horn that Susan and Caspian blew? The bow that Susan used? Lucy I don’t believe was scolded for magic, but for eavesdropping on her friend and not be appreciative of her own good looks and character. If magic wielders are so evil then the Dursleys and King Uther in BBC’s Merlin are good then?

    4. Differences and Similarities in Narnia and HP. Dif: Narnia – Older and HP – Newer. Similarities: Lions: Harry’s house is Gryffindor standing for courage, bravery, and loyalty. There symbol is lion. Aslan is a lion and symbolizes god. Resurrection: Harry has to sacrifice himself to Voldemort like his mother did for him. He does to save his friends and in heaven he talks to Dumbledore. He is explained that the Voldemort inside was killed, but not Harry. So Harry returns to the world of the living to kill Voldemort. Aslan dies to save Edmund and all of Narnia. He is killed, but Jadis interpreted the deep magic differently and so the table cracked and everything turned backwards. He came to life and kills Jadis. Love is another that is showed constantly throughout both of them.

42. 5. I am not Christian so all I have said may seem invalid to many of you. Though I have reliable source who can explain things better. This is John Granger. The reason to trust him because he was the same. He believed HP was evil too at one point. His daughter really wanted to read it, so he told her that he would read it first and then tell her why she can’t read HP. So he started reading SS and was shocked at how wrong he was. Now he is the Dean of Harry Potter. So all of you that are curious here is an article for you by him:

    http://www.george-macdonald.com/resources/granger.html

    6. Once again I would like you all to come to UNC Charlotte this fall for the HP Academic Conference. It is to promote, discourage HP.

    7. I have no proof that witchcraft exists. You can tell me all you want, but I need to see to believe this one. I read the Crucible by Arthur Miller and that shocked me on how evil people can be to each other, but if proved that there is no such thing. I know there are magicians, but everything they do is fake. Like pull a rabbit out of a hat and turn an empty book into one filled with colorful images with a snap of finger. That is how I see witchcraft.

    8. Rowling is not evil. She was hard poor woman who struggled in life. She sank into depression until HP came into her life. Yes she may have looked through all those sources for HP, but then every author needs to do research to make their story believable and valid.

    9. Here are a couple of youtube videos you might find touching and shed a new light to HP:
    – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tJ0boXowtk
    – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6_v9nhot70

    • There is witchcraft powered by Satan himself.

      • I don’t believe in Satan so that is still not proof to me. Sorry it is just who I am. Seeing is still believing for me on this one.

        • Have you ever seen the suffering that people go through that was caused by others? Wars? How about the Holocaust? So many people died at the hands of mankind. THAT is Satan, Satan IS visible. But love and peace is visible as well, as Christians, we call it Christ. 🙂
          There is alot I personally may not agree with that you have said, but I still respect you and your beliefs. You too voyager 😉
          May I just say, finally, that my view on the Harry Potter is this: While I may not “take to kindly” to the witchcraft and such, I agree with Paul on the “moderation” of it. I also think that people can be too laxed about it (aka, “At least my kid is reading”) but people can be too over the top about it too. Remember how the Salem Witch Trials started? At first, people were concerned about witchcraft, and they wanted it to stop, but then many innocent people were killed. That is pretty much my final note to all, even though I must admit i love a good arguement. 😉 However, may I just say thank you to all who have put up with us and our opinions. 🙂

          • So Satan isn’t some physical red, evil, looking guy with big horns and fire blazing out all over him. He is just the name for the dark side of humanity. That makes more sense because I was thinking the other one living in fiery place underground. The humanity thing you described is something I can believe in.

            This whole 3-4 posts were really inside my mind for the past two days now. So I found the politest way possible to express my views, beliefs, and what I was getting from everyone else.

            This whole place was starting to feel like high school musical without the the musical. So these are my final claims and if you want to take my words then do and if not then fine I can’t change you and that’s that.

            Thank you reepicheep’s_fangirl for your honesty and respecting others beliefs and stating your own.

          • The firey red guy with horns is the sterotype, along with Heaven being in the clouds and Hell being undergroud ;)It is more spiritual than physical. We belive that Satan was a fallen angel, he chose his will over God’s, and he was forbidden to be in union with God forever.
            I am glad you can relate to my example, though 😉 I’m glad you got something out of this whole eventually. Maybe you’ll want to learn about it more ;). I’m glad to took away something from this, eventually, a mess, I know I did :)There’re sure a lot of opinions…
            Of course, and I hope other people took something away from all this too.

43. mejor cierren los comentarios para esta noticia

44. I really don’t like how this posting thing works.

    Anyways these are the highlights. I have intention of hurting anyone or offending. You certainly have hurt me by accusing Rowling to be evil and laughing about it. I really don’t want to go on with this because I have exams starting next week. I hope this will be all. My motives have been stated above and before. So take it in that spirit. High Queene Shelly Belly my quarrel with you is over because I believe you to be valid in your claims, though I still disagree with you. Paul I also am trying to ease your nerves and tensions in this. I hope my sources shed some insight and if not then there is nothing more I can do.

    • What about “this posting thing” don’t you like? If you can, send me an e-mail about what you might like better. Also, I appreciate it.

      • Um ok. I mean the technical parts, but yeah sure I’ll email you about it.

45. i think they are both unique in their on ways

46. I have 2-3 three pointers left. I realized after I posted, but was to tired as you can see the time posted the others. So here it is:

    10. Witches and Wizards in HP celebrate Christmas and Easter. That is something to think about.

    11. Harry constantly had times where he couldn’t use magic. He swam across a huge body of ocean water with Dumbledore, a weak old man, on his back. Harry is hardly experienced in swimming, but managed. He swam to the bottom of a freezing cold lake to get the sword of Gryffindor. In a vault he and his friends had to give each other a boost the get an important cup. Harry killed the basilisk with the sword of Gryffindor. These times wands were no use and/or he didn’t have his wand.

    12. If you all think evil is popular, then why aren’t dictators so popular. You could say ice cream is evil? I take your word that the bible claims casting spells is evil, but it sounds just the same as eating ice cream is evil.

    Here are some things to mold over. I apologize for taking so much space, but I needed to get this all out of my head.

    “It is our choices far more than our abilities that make us who we are,” – Albus Dumbledore (Chamber of Secrets)

    • Okay, ice cream? Really? Thats just crazy! Ice cream is food! Sin is somthing that gets you in trouble! Satan uses it on us to do evil/sin….(movies arent the books by the way.) I think you need to make things more clear….i don’t get what you are saying!!!

      • The films are just as equally evil in your eyes. Plus they also show the same struggle in the story. Then read John Granger’s Article that will make things much clear. If you’re still confused.

        • okay that in it’s self made no sense….coudln’t you just redue your comment? about the ice cream…

          • the article or me? In any case there is not much else I can say or do. I have given you an article, videos, and text evidence. If you’re still confused then that’s it. All you assume and believe is HP is evil because it has witchcraft and nothing else. So I leave you in peace.

    • Oh , and by the way christians aren’t the only ones celebrating Christmas and Easter….Easter is a pagan name for pagan god. And People celebrate Christmas even if not for the birth of Christ….that doesn’t mean anything!

      even if harry didn’t use his wand sometimes it is still mentioned and used else where. ( A wand is a witches tool!)

47. @Angelica Chakraborty

    If your not a Christian then there isn’t anything wrong with HP(In your own eyes). So the question is really whether the Bible is true or not. But that is quite off-topic for here and can get VERY deep for some people.

    • No it is whether Harry Potter is as bad as it seems from an outsider who sees only the witchcraft in the story rather than what the story is trying to tell. If you read the article I posted it starts of with a quote from C.S. Lewis. That should brighten your day.

      • I don’t think if i read anything it would brighten anything ….

        • Let Celeb speak his mind for himself. Clearly you haven’t read the article, but that’s fine because I can clearly see the person you really are now. But at least let Caleb do his own talking.

    • Caleb….was that really nessasary at this time?

      • Let him speak his mind. You did yours and now let him do his. What you have to speak for everyone now? Calm down C.S.

        • you are very hypicrital;no offense; but i was just asking him a question… I was just as,king him if he really should have brought that up here;i didn’t think it was ‘timed right’,so to speak.

          please if you don’t like my comments quielty move on. Just saying….it better for everyone.

          (you are sorta doing the same thing)

          • Not that I’m aware of, but if you believe so then fine I apologize for that. I can’t imagine this all happening in a room it would get loud, noisy, and hot.

48. Paul, i think you need to get somthing else on here…and fast!!!

    • Why? I didn’t say anything offensive to my reckoning. I’m not forcing you to change you’re beliefs. If I did I apologize for that. Are you afraid that I was able to conjure such a convincing speaker and article that even quoted C.S. Lewis about spell casting? I have no intention to frighten or offend. I am putting up no further quarrel with anyone. If you are confused or want justifications on my valid points then I will gladly let you know. Come let us hold hands and step into the circle together embracing each others beliefs for what they are. 🙂

      • No…i was just saying that I don’t think we should just be commenting on this..i think it is going to far…I mean ; i think that it is time to move on.

        i am not scared of you or what you belive…if i was, i wouldn’t talk to you.

        • do you have a problem with that?

          • I agree. That is why I stated my final claims and what I summed up from all we have done. You’ve stated your and I stated mine. You really sound a lot like Cogsworth from Beauty and Beast. I don’t to offend, but you really do. A little a least. 🙂

          • By the way did i mention…i am a ‘soon to be author’?

          • That doesn’t scare me because I will be one too.

49. i actually been doing lost of resaerch…i show it to you soon….!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Well now I know how “lost” you are with you’re research. JK! LOL! Once again calm down you are acting like it is the end of the world just because I gave twelve worthy pointers to take into consideration. Honestly research is great, but you really need text evidence to convince me otherwise. Now I have to attend class. I’ll be back before you can say witchcraft.

      • Excuse me, is that a threat? That wasn’t very nice; that’s for sure.

        I don’t think that was a very good move on your part.
        I am not scared of you and i will take your “text” challange.

        I was trying to be nice, by telling you folks that i am simply researching ,and all you do is slam me?

        Fine, have it your way; your just going to have to deal with the consequences!

        i will be back!

        • It wasn’t a challenge. I said it because it was the relevant to the topic. If you were playing basketball wouldn’t you say basketball instead. Anyways I am done with all of this. I will be on for one more day and that is it. I will be back in week till all of you cool off. I have exams that need tending to.

        • You just had so many exclamation marks that it sounded like you were like yelling. Sorry If I sounded like slamming the door. The joke was on your typo on the word lots, which you spelled lost. You all right? Come on let’s call it even.

      • I think you are the one “Lost”….but thats just my opinion.

        • ENOUGH. Do you both realize how childish you are being? It’s one thing to be presenting opinions and arguing over THOSE, but arguing for the sake of arugument is just downright disrespectful towards others. C.S, you left a comment telling Paul that he should “get someone on here…fast!!!” but yet you continued to argue and say things such as “did you know I want to be an author” etc. Angelica, you had to add fuel to the fire by saying, whether you realized it or not, something rather insulting “I’ll be back before you can say ‘witchcraft'”. You two need to stop. You both agreed that the arugement would be over, yet I do not see either of you stopping. Please, for the sake of others, end it right here.

          • I wasn’t meaning anything of that. I just said it because it was the most relevant word here. Fine how about this “back before you can say magic” better? If you did then I am sorry about that. It is just a word. You might as well call witchcraft snoodle and it can still mean the same thing or something else. “A rose by any other name can still smell as sweet.”

        • I was kidding about that. Take a joke. Lighten up.

          • I’m not bothered by it, C.S. was, and that just created a whole other problem. Please, just drop it guys, the conversation was practically decided as ended. I know a subject like this is kind of hard to drop, and I feel the same way, I’d totally love to go on, but we need to let it go, it’s already gone far enough.

          • Well I made my amends to C.S., hopefully. You are more Hermione Granger than I am. Debates are so addictive, but I hope it ends here. Anyways I hope we here a greenlit for MN soon. In the mean while I stick to my other fantasy favorites, study, and type more of my story. Finally I can end this. I feel it is the end. All we need is more topics to distract us and get this one to the next page. That way it won’t be in our sight anymore to get attracted to it.

50. Firstly…WOW. I had to scroll a looong way down to get here…and secondly…KNOW THINE ENEMY!!!

    • This is what happens when you bring Narnia and Harry Potter together. I never thought this to happen, but as I said way earlier it has really been an eye-opener on how many Narnia fans don’t like Harry Potter. Only few on here like both. This was a pretty shocking blow to me. I don’t know if Paul knew what he was getting himself into. Oh well it has been a long week with all this. I am really getting tired and mentally exhausted. I need my mind for the exams and the Tri-Wizard Tournament that starts tomorrow. Catch you all later.

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